Management Thread IV

[bandwagonesque]

We'd have two such contracts had not Benning got lucky in unloading Guds for a decent player in Pearson.

You're right -- if things that actually happened hadn't happened, then we wouldn't be experiencing the benefits of those things having happened, which they did.

 

[Jyrki21]

You're right -- if things that actually happened hadn't happened, then we wouldn't be experiencing the benefits of those things having happened, which they did.

And you think there were no costs endured along the way? I sure do.

Chile is an OECD member now, so everything in its recent history until that point becomes water under the bridge?

 

[bandwagonesque]

And you think there were no costs endured along the way? I sure do.

Chile is an OECD member now, so everything in its recent history until that point becomes water under the bridge?

None of this has anything to do with what I said and I'm not defending any of the moves or the thinking behind them that led to the Pearson trade being necessary. I'm completely down with reasoned, good-faith criticism of the Canucks' management. It's appropriate -- they've done a bad job. Habitually calling specific good trades/signings "lucky" and implying that we should make judgements based on the theoretical state of the team had they not happened isn't reasonable or done in good faith. It's an attempt to bend reality to fit a preconceived notion, which is all the more pointless because reality and that notion aren't very far from one another.

 

[MS]

None of this has anything to do with what I said and I'm not defending any of the moves or the thinking behind them that led to the Pearson trade being necessary. I'm completely down with reasoned, good-faith criticism of the Canucks' management. It's appropriate -- they've done a bad job. Habitually calling specific good trades/signings "lucky" and implying that we should make judgements based on the theoretical state of the team had they not happened isn't reasonable or done in good faith. It's an attempt to bend reality to fit a preconceived notion, which is all the more pointless because reality and that notion aren't very far from one another.

Benning gave Gudbranson an absolutely terrible contract which, given his level of play relative to that contract, should have made Gudbranson completely untradeable in the same way Eriksson and Gagner/Spooner were. Instead, he got really lucky that a team was willing to give an overpaid but serviceable player back for that asset.

If we'd have given Oskar Fantenberg a 4 year/$16 million deal this summer, that would have been horrific, and we'd have to get really lucky to get some sort of serviceable asset back for him at the deadline.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Benning gave Gudbranson an absolutely terrible contract which, given his level of play relative to that contract, should have made Gudbranson completely untradeable in the same way Eriksson and Gagner/Spooner were.

I'm not disputing this and it has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

Instead, he got really lucky that a team was willing to give an overpaid but serviceable player back for that asset.

You're supplying an inference -- that the team making this particular trade was lucky rather than astute -- without any argument for why it fits into one category and not the other apart from the fact that it's Benning and everything good he does must be lucky because he's dumb. You're clearly intelligent enough to understand why this is disingenuous.

If we'd have given Oskar Fantenberg a 4 year/$16 million deal this summer, that would have been horrific, and we'd have to get really lucky to get some sort of serviceable asset back for him at the deadline.

This didn't happen. The team gave him a 1 year deal for under 1m, which was generally agreed to be reasonable.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I'm not disputing this and it has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

You're supplying an inference -- that the team making this particular trade was lucky rather than astute -- without any argument for why it fits into one category and not the other apart from the fact that it's Benning and everything good he does must be lucky because he's dumb. You're clearly intelligent enough to understand why this is disingenuous.

This didn't happen. The team gave him a 1 year deal for under 1m, which was generally agreed to be reasonable.

Wanna know what did happen? The Canucks have the worst record in the league since October 2015. How many GM's last that long despite having the worst team over an almost half decade period?

 

[F A N]

Wanna know what did happen? The Canucks have the worst record in the league since October 2015. How many GM's last that long despite having the worst team over an almost half decade period?

Not to mention that GM reportedly managed to kick out the guy who hired him and get a multi-year extension. Yet some posters think that GM is dumb. #winninginlife

 

[member 290103]

Not to mention that GM reportedly managed to kick out the guy who hired him and get a multi-year extension. Yet some posters think that GM is dumb. #winninginlife

I do. I think the GM is just a yes man puppet that FA uses as cover to play GM himself.

 

[MS]

I'm not disputing this and it has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

Well, yes it does. If you sign a bad player to a really awful negative-value contract and manage to get out of it because another GM is even stupider, that's lucky.

You're supplying an inference -- that the team making this particular trade was lucky rather than astute -- without any argument for why it fits into one category and not the other apart from the fact that it's Benning and everything good he does must be lucky because he's dumb. You're clearly intelligent enough to understand why this is disingenuous.

You lose your claim on being 'astute' when you sign a player as bad as Gudbranson to a contract that bad.

If I pay $8000 for a worn-out 1984 Pontiac Fiero that's actually worth maybe $1000 and then it breaks down and is sitting on my lawn and it looks like I'm going to have to pay to get it scrapped, and then some guy drives by and realizes it's the exact car his parents had when he was a kid and offers me $4000 for it, I haven't been astute. I made a terrible decision and got out of it kind of OK because I got lucky and someone else was even dumber.

This didn't happen. The team gave him a 1 year deal for under 1m, which was generally agreed to be reasonable.

Well, duh. It's an analogy to illustrate a point.

 

[4Twenty]

Not to mention that GM reportedly managed to kick out the guy who hired him and get a multi-year extension. Yet some posters think that GM is dumb. #winninginlife

That isn't the story and you know it.

The story is that he told the owner what he wanted to hear, instead of what he needed to hear....and that's why he's still here, and the man who wanted to start a rebuild or prolong it, was let go "amicably".

 

[Spur1]

That isn't the story and you know it.

The story is that he told the owner what he wanted to hear, instead of what he needed to hear....and that's why he's still here, and the man who wanted to start a rebuild or prolong it, was let go "amicably".

WOW ...and how is it that you somehow know the real story? I suggest your version lives only in your head.

 

[4Twenty]

WOW ...and how is it that you somehow know the real story? I suggest your version lives only in your head.

What do you think happened ?

 

[F A N]

That isn't the story and you know it.

The story is that he told the owner what he wanted to hear, instead of what he needed to hear....and that's why he's still here, and the man who wanted to start a rebuild or prolong it, was let go "amicably".

So what you're saying is that Benning's immediate superior wanted to tell the big boss something he didn't want to hear. Instead of backing up his immediate superior, Benning goes and tells the big boss what he wants to hear. Result is Benning's direct superior is "let go amicably" and he takes over some of his superior's hockey operations responsibilities and gets a multi-year contract extension for guaranteed money. Is that what you're saying?

 

[Spur1]

So what you're saying is that Benning's immediate superior wanted to tell the big boss something he didn't want to hear. Instead of backing up his immediate superior, Benning goes and tells the big boss what he wants to hear. Result is Benning's direct superior is "let go amicably" and he takes over some of his superior's hockey operations responsibilities and gets a multi-year contract extension for guaranteed money. Is that what you're saying?

If it is what he is saying it could be libel.

 

[mathonwy]

If it is what he is saying it could be libel.

It could be libelous to call what he's saying libel.

If repeat the word libel out loud enough... it loses its meaning.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Not to mention that GM reportedly managed to kick out the guy who hired him and get a multi-year extension. Yet some posters think that GM is dumb. #winninginlife

I think that's probably why he still has a job. Because he is dumb and Aquilini doesn't get told no by him whenever he suggests something stupid.

 

[Melvin]

Feels like just a year ago we were arguing about whether gudbranson is a top 4 defender. Anyone want to dig up the thread from last October? Who was right?

 

[4Twenty]

So what you're saying is that Benning's immediate superior wanted to tell the big boss something he didn't want to hear. Instead of backing up his immediate superior, Benning goes and tells the big boss what he wants to hear. Result is Benning's direct superior is "let go amicably" and he takes over some of his superior's hockey operations responsibilities and gets a multi-year contract extension for guaranteed money. Is that what you're saying?

I wouldn’t exactly call that out smarting, I’d call it boot licking but you do you.

 

[4Twenty]

If it is what he is saying it could be libel.

So you’ve got nothing to say about what happened ?

 

[Hodgy]

Feels like just a year ago we were arguing about whether gudbranson is a top 4 defender. Anyone want to dig up the thread from last October? Who was right?

We don’t talk about that anymore. We talk about how Benning fleeced the Penguins to acquire Pearson.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

That isn't the story and you know it.

The story is that he told the owner what he wanted to hear, instead of what he needed to hear....and that's why he's still here, and the man who wanted to start a rebuild or prolong it, was let go "amicably".

The funny thing is Benning was right the Canucks were 2 years away not 5 like Linden said. This year's team is proving the this was the right way to go. Linden was wrong. FA made the right decision going with Benning.

 

[4Twenty]

The funny thing is Benning was right the Canucks were 2 years away not 5 like Linden said. This year's team is proving the this was the right way to go. Linden was wrong. FA made the right decision going with Benning.

2 years away from what?

The team has 2 regulation wins in 6 games with a fairly soft schedule.

all you need is 6 games for proof?

You think the Canucks are going to win the cup this year? How many years away from contender status?

 

[Spur1]

What do you think happened ?

I don’t. I have no way of knowing and neither do you. Anything said or reported is just guessing.

 

[Spur1]

2 years away from what?

The team has 2 regulation wins in 6 games with a fairly soft schedule.

all you need is 6 games for proof?

You think the Canucks are going to win the cup this year? How many years away from contender status?

That’s funny because the standings say 4 wins. Regulation or SO they count the same. Just sit back and enjoy the Canucks rack up the points.

 

[Nomobo]

2 years away from what?

The team has 2 regulation wins in 6 games with a fairly soft schedule.

all you need is 6 games for proof?

You think the Canucks are going to win the cup this year? How many years away from contender status?

It should be very obvious that this team has improved a lot. You’d even get consensus on this deeply divided board, the only qualifier you’d get would the degree of improvement.

I’m sticking with my prediction that they’ll make the playoffs and as to how far they could go? A top six rental at the tdl could put them in a position to go on a nice run.