Post-Game Talk: 18/19 Endless boilerplate arguments regarding Management thread | Pt. V. Oil up your mouse wheel.

[Nuckles]

Lol, I don't think not listening to the radio puts me in a bubble.
Is there a thread where this is being discussed?

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/vancouver-sports-media.2507217/page-16

I would definitely recommend listening to the entire thing when they put it online.

 

[timw33]

Lol, I don't think not listening to the radio puts me in a bubble.
Is there a thread where this is being discussed?

Sports Media thread. It deserves it's own thread. Absolutely required listening/reading for any fan of the Canucks.

 

[CanaFan]

It matters greatly, IMO, if Gillis deserved to be fired or not. If Gillis didn't deserve to be fired because of something he did, why is he being fired? He didn't need to be fired. Mutliple years of bottom feeder while spending to the cap, I get it... Being a Weinstein, I get it... Fire him. Why is the bird in the hand not worth two in the bush? If someone is difficult to replace, you better be sure (or, based on clear rational and evidence) that who you are replacing this someone with is at least just as good, and most preferably, better. You didn't respect the job Gillis did enough, IMO. If you did, you wouldn't quickly assume or believe that the next GM would be one of the "better" ones. The good to great ones are hard to find. Having a good to great NHL GM is a real competitive advantage, and Gillis was a good one. Being good should have bought him a lot more rope than he got. Gillis should have had the rope that Benning used to hang himself with.

Eh, Gillis wasn’t doing such a great job that he wasn’t replaceable with someone better. The owner just screwed the pooch by finding someone much worse.

On merit his firing was arguably justified. His performance is all that’s relevant to that argument. Benning’s performance subsequently is not relevant at all.

 

[Melvin]

Vancouver media thread. Every quote of his is also trending on Canucks reddit.

Thanks man. Didn't see that thread.

 

[member 290103]

Eh, Gillis wasn’t doing such a great job that he wasn’t replaceable with someone better. The owner just screwed the pooch by finding someone much worse.

On merit his firing was arguably justified. His performance is all that’s relevant to that argument. Benning’s performance subsequently is not relevant at all.

The thing is, if you believe him, he was not allowed to operate in the manner he wanted. If he was, the team is like on the upswing here again...but instead the rebuild is put off and ownership hired a coach with no interest in the team...the Aqualini group f***ed everything up.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Gillis should have had the rope that Benning used to hang himself with.

Been saying that for a while now.

The Aquilini’s prevented Gillis from doing his job properly, were criticized heavily for it, and said “okay we’ll let the next guy do as he pleases without questioning any of it.”

Extremely ironic because Gillis could’ve done so much more with free reign, and Benning absolutely needed to be held back and prevented from making half of the boneheaded decisions he’s made.

 

[CanaFan]

The thing is, if you believe him, he was not allowed to operate in the manner he wanted. If he was, the team is like on the upswing here again...but instead the rebuild is put off and ownership hired a coach with no interest in the team...the Aqualini group ****ed everything up.

Sure and if that’s all true then that obscures the merits for his firing. But this was not widely known in 2014 when fans were calling for his firing. Based on what was known, I have trouble “blaming” them for the mess that became Jim Benning.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

I can't see a way to judge him that could make him seem competent.

No reason to feel bad. A handful of posters have spent hundreds of hours trying, and they haven’t been able to either.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Eh, Gillis wasn’t doing such a great job that he wasn’t replaceable with someone better. The owner just screwed the pooch by finding someone much worse.

On merit his firing was arguably justified. His performance is all that’s relevant to that argument. Benning’s performance subsequently is not relevant at all.

This pretty much. They hired Linden and he hired both the GM and coach, right? Doesn't say much for ownership when these are the types of candidates you're left to mull over. We'll see who's interested when Benning is ultimately fired but not expecting an Yzerman caliber candidate to materialize.

The thing is, if you believe him, he was not allowed to operate in the manner he wanted. If he was, the team is like on the upswing here again...but instead the rebuild is put off and ownership hired a coach with no interest in the team...the Aqualini group ****ed everything up.

Which is why I question to what degree ownership has directed player moves since Gillis' firing.

 

[y2kcanucks]

When baby whines that his KIA isn't good enough so his dad gives him an Oldsmobile, it's still his fault for whining even though he wanted an aston martin.

This didn't age well. Did you miss the part where Gillis said himself he was becoming part of the problem and basically understands that he needed to be let go?

 

[I in the Eye]

Eh, Gillis wasn’t doing such a great job that he wasn’t replaceable with someone better. The owner just screwed the pooch by finding someone much worse.

On merit his firing was arguably justified. His performance is all that’s relevant to that argument. Benning’s performance subsequently is not relevant at all.

Everyone is replaceable... but some are more difficult to replace than others. Of course Gillis could have been replaced by someone better... but good luck finding better. Gillis did a better job than you think, then you give him credit for. He was a first time GM, and the signs were there that with a bit more experience, he could have been a great one. Gillis deserved more rope than he got, from the fans, and his boss. I didn't post about Benning's performance, I posted about his chances. There should be no question that Benning received a much wider margin for error than Gillis... by the fans (outside here) and his boss.

Anyone who wanted Gillis fired deserves Benning. Aquilini deserves Benning. To find better, first have a clear picture of how good you have it... and how bad it could instead be. Assuming it will be just as good, or better, with a change is nothing more than optimism bias. Change was desired... and they sure got change. There needs to be rational and substance behind a change... don't just want change for change's sake. Gillis first deserved an opportunity to change from within. No one was more positioned to understand the problems and formulate the solutions than Gillis. It's not like he didn't see that certain things weren't working, or that changes weren't necessary. It was the more efficient and potential for most effective thing to do, to extend his rope, and get off his back... The most successful run in Canucks history wasn't a fluke... not an easy feat to replicate, and now we're back to the familiar place in Canucks history of sucking shit. It will take a Gillis-type to get back out of it.

 

[F A N]

Anyone who wanted Gillis fired deserves Benning. Aquilini deserves Benning.

I'm sure many here would disagree.

 

[I in the Eye]

I'm sure many here would disagree.

Probably... "deserves" is probably too harsh a word... it's a militant word... I'm looking for a less combative, less judgemental word than "deserves" . I don't think that anyone should "deserve" pain... but I do think that some should reasonably expect pain. If you happily poke yourself in the Eye with a pin, it can be reasonably expected to hurt. Do you deserve to hurt poking yourself in the Eye with a pin? I don't think I could reasonably judge that, without first walking a mile in the shoes.

 

[F A N]

Probably... "deserves" is probably too harsh a word... it's a militant word... I'm looking for a less combative, less judgemental word than "deserves" . I don't think that anyone should "deserve" pain... but I do think that some should reasonably expect pain. If you happily poke yourself in the Eye with a pin, it can be reasonably expected to hurt. Does the person deserve to hurt? I don't think I should judge that, without first walking a mile in his shoes.

Well there are posters here who simply enjoy posting criticisms. That's not to say that they aren't happy when the team is doing well and competing for the Cup, but posting praises doesn't bring them joy the way posting criticism does. I think the posters who wanted Gillis gone didn't really realistically assess whether there were alternatives out there capable of doing a better job.

 

[I in the Eye]

Well there are posters here who simply enjoy posting criticisms. That's not to say that they aren't happy when the team is doing well and competing for the Cup, but posting praises doesn't bring them joy the way posting criticism does. I think the posters who wanted Gillis gone didn't really realistically assess whether there were alternatives out there capable of doing a better job.

I think some fans didn't give Gillis the high credit he deserved... Aquilini certainly didn't. If Gillis was given higher credit, I think it should have been clearer that an equal or better replacement wouldn't be easy to find. By all means, explore for better... but that doesn't mean take for granted what you have. Correctly understanding what you have is a critical component to finding better... proceed with caution and due care.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I think some fans didn't give Gillis the high credit he deserved... Aquilini certainly didn't. If Gillis was given higher credit, I think it should have been clearer that an equal or better replacement wouldn't be easy to find. By all means, explore for better... but that doesn't mean take for granted what you have. Correctly understanding what you have is a critical component to finding better... proceed with caution and due care.

I sure didn't give him the credit he deserved. I had no idea how much worse things could be.

 

[CanaFan]

Everyone is replaceable... but some are more difficult to replace than others. Of course Gillis could have been replaced by someone better... but good luck finding better. Gillis did a better job than you think, then you give him credit for. He was a first time GM, and the signs were there that with a bit more experience, he could have been a great one. Gillis deserved more rope than he got, from the fans, and his boss. I didn't post about Benning's performance, I posted about his chances. There should be no question that Benning received a much wider margin for error than Gillis... by the fans (outside here) and his boss.

Anyone who wanted Gillis fired deserves Benning. Aquilini deserves Benning. To find better, first have a clear picture of how good you have it... and how bad it could instead be. Assuming it will be just as good, or better, with a change is nothing more than optimism bias. Change was desired... and they sure got change. There needs to be rational and substance behind a change... don't just want change for change's sake. Gillis first deserved an opportunity to change from within. No one was more positioned to understand the problems and formulate the solutions than Gillis. It's not like he didn't see that certain things weren't working, or that changes weren't necessary. It was the more efficient and potential for most effective thing to do, to extend his rope, and get off his back... The most successful run in Canucks history wasn't a fluke... not an easy feat to replicate, and now we're back to the familiar place in Canucks history of sucking ****. It will take a Gillis-type to get back out of it.

No, Gillis’ inability to address the scouting and drafting in his time here was sufficient cause for his termination. His strengths were not sufficient to offset such a glaring organizational weakness. I have no issue with his termination, as there are plenty of GMs who seem to be able to handle the dual challenges of drafting talent and maintaining a competitive NHL club. Gillis wasn’t so good or rare a talent that he was unteolaceable by someone better. It just sucks that we replaced him with a complete dimwit.

 

[Nuckles]

lol ok

 

[valkynax]

lol ok

 

[Nick1219]

I'll at least give Aquaman some credit for hopping on the radio this morning. You can tell he's passionate about the team, but he's just poor at public speaking. All that being said, he did some out and explicitly say "Jim can spend right to the cap every year if he believes that's what is needed." If there's one thing we can be thankful for, it's that. Granted that spending hasn't been well managed, but I'd rather have this problem than a budget problem.

I stopped listening once I got to work at 825, but the one big piece of information I got out of that interview was the Linden firing. Benning didn't come right out and say it, but he mentioned a couple key points that referenced it. The big one being that he believes most GMs report directly to ownership. There was a couple other tidbits in there that I can't recall right now, but while listening I was like "hmmmm I'm getting the vibe that Trevor was forcing Benning to report directly and only to him and he was making key hockey decisions without informing Aquaman first, which probably led to some animosity and eventually the firing."

Again... Aquaman was not giving clear answers and dodged the Linden question 3 or 4 times, but that's what I gathered from it.

 

[I in the Eye]

No, Gillis’ inability to address the scouting and drafting in his time here was sufficient cause for his termination. His strengths were not sufficient to offset such a glaring organizational weakness. I have no issue with his termination, as there are plenty of GMs who seem to be able to handle the dual challenges of drafting talent and maintaining a competitive NHL club. Gillis wasn’t so good or rare a talent that he was unteolaceable by someone better. It just sucks that we replaced him with a complete dimwit.

Timing issue... problem identified, scouting and drafting was addressed. His strengths plus ability to see and address the problems should have given him more rope. There was not sufficient cause for termination.

Hope you're enjoying the greener grass

 

[CanaFan]

Timing issue... problem identified, scouting and drafting was addressed. His strengths plus ability to see and address the problems should have given him more rope. There was not sufficient cause for termination.

Hope you're enjoying the greener grass

“Timing issue” lol

You actually think this is something to be smug about? I didn’t ask for a borderline Pejorative Slur to replace the previous GM. When a manager fires a poor performing employee he doesn’t regret it because HR gives him an even worse replacement. He fires that one too and asks HR to get their shit together.

Both deserved to be fired, one a lot more than the other. Benning’s incompetence doesn’t negate Gillis’ failings. Sorry.

 

[I in the Eye]

“Timing issue” lol

You actually think this is something to be smug about? I didn’t ask for a borderline ****** to replace the previous GM. When a manager fires a poor performing employee he doesn’t regret it because HR gives him an even worse replacement. He fires that one too and asks HR to get their **** together.

Both deserved to be fired, one a lot more than the other. Benning’s incompetence doesn’t negate Gillis’ failings. Sorry.

You want to believe that Gillis deserved to be fired, but that's not the case. Gillis didn't have a clear grasp on the landscape... he said by taking his time, he never got in trouble before. In the NHL, as a NHL GM, it got him in trouble... He needed to move quicker addressing the scouting and drafting. No question. He learned, both Gillis and Gilman said they did. Did Gilman deserve to be fired too, for the scouting and drafting? Gilman said he oversaw the draft. Imho, no. They knew and owned their mistake. Reprimand sure... firing, no. They knew where they f***ed up, and corrected it... albeit, took too long. Timing issue.

You wanted greener grass... nothing smug about that. You wanted it, and opened up the opportunity for a brand new lawn, which we got.

 

[Foundational Player]

TSN 1040 poll question today on Halford and Brough,

Who's the better GM....Jim Benning or Mike Gillis?

Such a tough choice, but in all seriousness it's Gillis by a landslide.

 

[CanaFan]

You want to believe that Gillis deserved to be fired, but that's not the case. Gillis didn't have a clear grasp on the landscape... he said by taking his time, he never got in trouble before. In the NHL, as a NHL GM, it got him in trouble... He needed to move quicker addressing the scouting and drafting. No question. He learned, both Gillis and Gilman said they did. Did Gilman deserve to be fired too, for the scouting and drafting? Gilman said he oversaw the draft. Imho, no. They knew and owned their mistake. Reprimand sure... firing, no. They knew where they ****ed up, and corrected it... albeit, took too long. Timing issue.

You wanted greener grass... nothing smug about that. You wanted it, and opened up the opportunity for a brand new lawn, which we got.

Fair enough, I wanted a GM that could draft and develop more than Hodgson, Connauton, Gaunce, Hutton, and Horvat in a 6 year span. Shame on me.

Shoulda learned faster. Next time I’ll ask the owner to hire Ray Shero instead of Benning.