Post-Game Talk: 18/19 Endless boilerplate arguments regarding Management thread | Pt. V. Oil up your mouse wheel.

[vancityluongo]

I remember a friend telling me that he knew someone who worked for the Canucks and that person told him that Scott Niedermayer wanted to play in Vancouver so he could be a part of the Canucks during the Olympics.

Obviously posted that instantly on HF at the time. That was about the extent of the legitimacy of Niedermayer to Vancouver talk.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

The discussion started because someone said matching Philly's $1.9M offer sheet for Kesler was among the top 5 worst things ever to happen to this franchise.

Oh. Well, I can certainly see how that totally unrelated thing enters into it.

 

[nuck luck]

I tend to see it this way too. For me the real mistake Nonis made in the summer of 2005 was passing on Kopitar, which would have probably led to at least a Cup win for us in the years to come barring everything else staying the same.

Tkachuk is the new Kopitar...he is the type of player you want in the Playoffs.

He would've been perfect to move up and down to play with Bo or Pete.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Tkachuk is the new Kopitar...he is the type of player you want in the Playoffs.

He would've been perfect to move up and down to play with Bo or Pete.

Tkachuk.. the guy who has scored a grand total of 0 playoff points in the NHL is now gonna be some elite playoff performer? LOL love how it’s always too early to say anything good about our prospects until they’ve proven it beyond all doubt but it’s never too early to make crazy predictions about other players on other teams like Tkachuk = Kopitar

 

[Motte and Bailey]

I remember a friend telling me that he knew someone who worked for the Canucks and that person told him that Scott Niedermayer wanted to play in Vancouver so he could be a part of the Canucks during the Olympics.

Obviously posted that instantly on HF at the time. That was about the extent of the legitimacy of Niedermayer to Vancouver talk.

I believe it.. Niedermayer with the Sedins would’ve been beautiful

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Watching Dubas bungle the Nylander contract is making me feel a lot better about how Benning and Weisbrod stack up with the rest of the league in the category of free agent signings. He was able to lock Bo up, who is a much better player than William for much less than william is demanding.

 

[Peter10]

Tkachuk.. the guy who has scored a grand total of 0 playoff points in the NHL is now gonna be some elite playoff performer? LOL love how it’s always too early to say anything good about our prospects until they’ve proven it beyond all doubt but it’s never too early to make crazy predictions about other players on other teams like Tkachuk = Kopitar

That very same Tkachuk who has already 118 points in the NHL (including 46 goals) while Olli sits at 17 AHL games.

Oh and yeah how about Virtanen, who also hasnt scored a single point in the playoffs yet seem to proclaim him to be more valueable in the post season than Nylander? Isnt that quite a strawman? Anyway, keep your "Benning is god" approach if it makes you happy, I for one prefer not to be a sheep.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

That very same Tkachuk who has already 118 points in the NHL (including 46 goals) while Olli sits at 17 AHL games.

Oh and yeah how about Virtanen, who also hasnt scored a single point in the playoffs yet seem to proclaim him to be more valueable in the post season than Nylander? Isnt that quite a strawman? Anyway, keep your "Benning is god" approach if it makes you happy, I for one prefer not to be a sheep.

So you think Tkachuk = Kopitar?

 

[nuck luck]

Tkachuk.. the guy who has scored a grand total of 0 playoff points in the NHL is now gonna be some elite playoff performer? LOL love how it’s always too early to say anything good about our prospects until they’ve proven it beyond all doubt but it’s never too early to make crazy predictions about other players on other teams like Tkachuk = Kopitar

Seriously, is English your second language? You constantly misinterpret or miscomprehend simple sentences.

If you think Tkachuk hasn't proven himself and you believe all of our prospects/young guys (not named Bo, Boeser or Pete) have proven something, which is more laughable?

Virt hasn't even come close to Tkachuk comparables and you consider his upside is Playoff performance... I would lol, but I find this fact depressing and I can only feel sorry for you and your infantile optimism being shattered constantly by life's truths and realities. No LOL from me... just a

As a show of good faith, I will educate you, once again, to equip yourself to better handle conversation level English:

'Tkachuk is the new Kopitar' does not mean Tkachuk = Kopitar. This is worthy of LOL

It is in reference to another post discussing the Sedin-era would've been different with Kopitar on our team. H. Sedin, Kopitar and Kesler down the middle...I agreed.

The point is that our forward group, in the future, will need a player like Tkachuk in our top 6. Massive blunder by nonis to not take Kopitar is identical to bennbrod not taking Tkachuk.
*You might not comprehend this because it requires a little thought and you need to calculate for future ramifications. Don't worry, baby steps and I'm here to help

'....he is the type of player you want in the Playoffs.' Again....this does not mean Tkachuk = Kopitar. This one is worthy of switching the L for an R and adding F-you decide for yourself. RO'F'L

This means that Tkachuk's game style plus his skill set are qualities that help teams win the SC. Think of Wilson with the Caps or the rat with the bruins.

Why am I not surprised that you interpreted this as Tkachuk = Kopitar?

Hope this helps!

 

[Addison Rae]

“I’m glad Benning passed on Tkachuk/Nylander because if he didn’t we wouldn’t have Pettersson!”

Is up there for the dumbest defense I’ve ever heard for any regime.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

“I’m glad Benning passed on Tkachuk/Nylander because if he didn’t we wouldn’t have Pettersson!”

Is up there for the dumbest defense I’ve ever heard for any regime.

Those guys are the real tank commanders.

"Lets not draft the best players because it might lower our draft position in the future."

 

[timw33]

“I’m glad Benning passed on Tkachuk/Nylander because if he didn’t we wouldn’t have Pettersson!”

Is up there for the dumbest defense I’ve ever heard for any regime.

I think we should draft a horrible player with our pick this year cause then it'll mean we get a better one in the 2020 draft.

 

[Melvin]

“I’m glad Benning passed on Tkachuk/Nylander because if he didn’t we wouldn’t have Pettersson!”

Is up there for the dumbest defense I’ve ever heard for any regime.

You wonder how far they take it.

Ultimately I'm glad we lost to Boston cause otherwise we probably wouldn't have Pettersson.

 

[Pip]

Gillis’ handling of the goalie situation led the canucks into a position to draft Pettersson

 

[RandV]

You wonder how far they take it.

Ultimately I'm glad we lost to Boston cause otherwise we probably wouldn't have Pettersson.

It's funny because it is technically true, it's just not something that should ever be praised. Had we someone competent running the team from the start we probably would have left the basement for the 2016-17 draft and barring a low odds lottery draft win not be in position for Pettersson or Hughes.

Which is why with where we're at now it's so important to ditch Benning and get someone competent in place for next season.

 

[Melvin]

Gillis’ handling of the goalie situation led the canucks into a position to draft Pettersson

If we didn't trade Cam Neely we probably wouldn't have Pettersson today.

 

[PM]

Gillis’ handling of the goalie situation led the canucks into a position to draft Pettersson

Jokes aside it did give us Horvat which is one of the few reasons to watch this team.

 

[bobbyb2009]

“I’m glad Benning passed on Tkachuk/Nylander because if he didn’t we wouldn’t have Pettersson!”

Is up there for the dumbest defense I’ve ever heard for any regime.

I love all of the responses making fun of this here- sarcasm- they are laughable. Each of these knee jerk posts misses the point and conflates all of the posters other positions with this one.

If we believe that EP is the real deal and special, on the level of some of the names of young franchise types being discussed in the league today, then being in the right situation at the right moment to select him took a lot of luck and a set of specific conditions.

All of the chain selection posts: imagine if we selected Ehlers/Tkachcuk/etc., man our lineup would look terrific with them and EP. There is literally less than a 2% chance we would have been in a position to select a franchise player in EP if we had selected the other two. Those players would have made our team better and we would not have picked this franchise player.

I would not look backwards and say, glad we lost so we could select him, but I can be happy we did select him. For all of you making fun of the comment (almost all of you are on team tank now and have been over the past two years), isn't that exactly what you are doing. Let's suck to get a better player? Our bad talent, bad management, and bad selection did just that- it made us suck. And so we finally got to pick a player that looks like he can change things for real.

If he is that player, the debate can be had: would you rather have a franchise EP or Ehlers and Tkachuk? Debate away. My opinion is that right now, I want the upside of EP over those two! That makes the poster being made fun of have a valid point. Would it be nice to have all three- yup!!! But it was almost not statistically possible for it to happen if you think the Ehlers and Tkachuk would have made a difference to the quality of the team.

It does not excuse the god awful drafting of Virtanen and Juolevi, but it most certainly explains the ability to get lucky (and smart) in drafting EP. That is not something that can reasonably be made fun of as so many of you are doing on this page.

Flame away

 

[Jyrki21]

It's funny because it is technically true, it's just not something that should ever be praised. Had we someone competent running the team from the start we probably would have left the basement for the 2016-17 draft and barring a low odds lottery draft win not be in position for Pettersson or Hughes.

Which is why with where we're at now it's so important to ditch Benning and get someone competent in place for next season.

And it's also an illustration of why – even if the Canucks ultimately emerge from this in good shape one day – praising an administration who takes no actual steps to rebuild but gets some decent draft picks due to failing is absolute nonsense. What would it take to be bad management in that case? There is no world where such a thing could exist until the NHL, AHL and ECHL adopt a pro-reg model or something.

Essentially just because Pettersson is good, I keep reading stuff on Twitter to the effect of "hm, I guess these guys are finally figuring it out!" How???? What would be evidence of them not figuring it out? Trading first-rounders (as they twice, maybe thrice tried to do)?

 

[RandV]

So as the team starts to plummet again putting pressure on Benning how's his prime 'achievement' our much vaunted prospect pool looking at the moment?

Pettersson aside, seems like a lot of well regarded guys have graduated to North American pro at the same time and hit that stumbling block. Gaudette, Dahlin, and Juolevi have done okay but the early start mediocre is more of an indication of Granlund/Gaunce/Goldobin type players than actual impact guys, while Lind and Gadjovich are doing about as well as Cole Cassels did. Meanwhile in a critical development year Demko hasn't played yet due to a concussion, one that was made more severe when the Canucks forced him on the plane to Utica when he said himself he wasn't ready for it yet.

Seems like a big chunk of guys that a few months ago people were pencilling in as important cogs on a competitive roster are looking like they require a downgrade in expectations. Now of course it's still too early, and personally I like giving a prospect (especially coming out of the CHL) one freebie adjustment year in the AHL, but guys that are going to make an NHL impact soon usually look better than this. Early prognoses is looking like more the same where only the top picks are really going to make an impact for us.

 

[Melvin]

And it's also an illustration of why – even if the Canucks ultimately emerge from this in good shape one day – praising an administration who takes no actual steps to rebuild but gets some decent draft picks due to failing is absolute nonsense. What would it take to be bad management in that case? There is no world where such a thing could exist until the NHL, AHL and ECHL adopt a pro-reg model or something.

Essentially just because Pettersson is good, I keep reading stuff on Twitter to the effect of "hm, I guess these guys are finally figuring it out!" How???? What would be evidence of them not figuring it out? Trading first-rounders (as they twice, maybe thrice tried to do)?

That is the correct question to which I have never received a response.

If Benning is doing a good job, what would this team look like today had we had an average gm?

What if we'd had a bad gm?

If you can't establish an objective standard by which someone can be judged, it makes distinctions like good and bad meaningless.

 

[Jyrki21]

That is the correct question to which I have never received a response.

If Benning is doing a good job, what would this team look like today had we had an average gm?

What if we'd had a bad gm?

If you can't establish an objective standard by which someone can be judged, it makes distinctions like good and bad meaningless.

Yeah, I know in some ways it's restating this question you've asked... I was just thinking on this topic of butterfly effect causality and draft position specifically... the system is set up such that everyone is doing a "good job" on a rebuild since everyone ultimately gets better no matter their actions, it's just a question of when.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

If I were the Canucks organization, I would be demanding for my money back from @RonningMorrisonBooth for the terrible spin job he has done here. If anything, he’s made everything look that much worse

 

[I in the Eye]

Instructions for baking a lemon meringue pie:

1: First you need a universe...

 

[valkynax]

It seems that, by this point, most if not ALL the UFA signed turned out to be hot garbage.

Not saying this to excuse the dear leader's blunder, but I always wondered...why that year in particular, where everyone around NHL handed out big contracts to these trash players like Johnny f***ing Appleseed? Were all these UFA's hyped up to the stratosphere?