Man Mountain's partner

[Price is Wright]

Alzner's a much safer player and clearly a better player, but let's not pretend he's a Hjarmalsson or a Brodin.

If he was either, this thread wouldn't exist.

Bergevin prioritized Alzner over Markov and nobody is confident in Alzner being a #1LD.

 

[CauZuki]

If he was either, this thread wouldn't exist.

Bergevin prioritized Alzner over Markov and nobody is confident in Alzner being a #1LD.

He isn't and has never been a top 2 D , it would be a mistake to play him in this role. Alzner is a good defensive D with a decent first pass , that's about it. The issue is that the injuries suffered over the last few years have made him less effective in this role. He shares a few similarities with Gorges who was a warrior for us in his younger years and closer to his 30's was more of a liability. Blocking shots and playing a fairly physical style tends to take a toll on players body. I still think he can be a decent D (despite not liking the contract he was offered) but if he's in your top 2 in terms of ice-time , you're in trouble.

 

[Belial]

Absolutely untrue , 4th last year , 3rd the year before , 4th the year before that.

Did you take the time to actually look deeper into those numbers? I'm sure you didn't.

Trotz likes to share the ice time pretty evenly for his top 4.

You're saying he was 3rd the year before, the fact that the 2 guys that were ahead of him are both RD doesn't ring a bell? On what pair was Alzner playing in your opinion?

If he was so great why did they not re-sign him since they have many young stud D's that are still developing? Also why did he barely play top 6 minutes during the season (during the 1/4 of the season he did play)?

They do have young D's developing.

He was not playing a lot because they had other guys ahead of him? But I'm telling you what happened when he was put in a tougher situation with more responsibilities, he did well. What happened with Beaulieu when he was put in a tougher situation? He failed.

I'm not even trying to argue Morrow is some hidden gem that will play on the first pair, I'm telling you he's decent, he's not a scrub.

Evaluating a player in his first game in the KHL when he has been playing 18 years in the NHL...You must be kidding. (especially when we know first hand the impact he has on the team , shall I bring up the record of Habs play without Markov?)

What? So after 18 years in the NHL Markov was supposed to struggle in the KHL or what's your point here?

And I said he looked good, my point was more about the level of play in the KHL but it went completely over your head.

Well see that's not true there are many more cases of players doing poorly then succeeding. It's absolutely delusional to think that it's likely for Jerabek to succeed in a top 2/4 role in a new league that he has 0 experience in. I seriously hope none of you work in finance as negating all the risks and focusing only on the potential is a scary mentality.

Care to give some examples?

Yeah why bother talking about the future on this board (it's not like future is in the name or anything)

Can't you see the irony that you are claiming others are being overly negative (i.e: The sky is falling) vs your overly optimistic view? (i.e: All the best possible scenarios will occur)

We're talking about the next season, we're not talking about what will happen in 5 years.

I'm not expecting Jerabek to step in and win the Norris! All I'm saying is that I can see him doing well and not being a complete liability out there.

The whole defensive brigade is being seriously underrated in my opinion and I don't share the sky is falling narrative.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

What a sad list of dmen in the poll.

Petry, Alzner, and a bunch of fringe NHLers.

 

[HCH]

Tough question. I don't think Streit can log the minutes required, Alzner doesn't play a style of game that complements Weber's and Petry plays the right side so he is probably ruled out.

Benn may also be slotted for the right side on the 3rd pairing because he seems to be one of the LH defensemen who is also proficient on the right side.

That whittles it down to Jerabek, Morrow, Davidson and Schlemko. I would also peg Schlemko as a 3rd pairing guy because he has thrived there in the past. Jerabek will likely get a long look in training camp because he hasn't been evaluated against NHL competition yet.

My guess is that it will start out as a platoon situation at the start of the season - maybe even dressing 7 d-men and rotating a couple of guys with Weber in the early games.

That would give the team a chance to see if someone seizes the opportunity and wins the position outright. If I had to choose one, it would be Jerabek

 

[Frank Drebin]

It'll be Alzner, without a doubt

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I always thought GA/60 was pretty random year to year and based heavily on goaltending?

It is. And it is.

Anyways, I've hijacked this thread. It's supposed to be about who's going to pair up with him so I'll leave this be.

 

[kgboomer]

What a sad list of dmen in the poll.

Petry, Alzner, and a bunch of fringe NHLers.

It really looks like a bunch of rejects from other teams.

Oh well, that's what bargain binning is all about.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

What a sad list of dmen in the poll.

Petry, Alzner, and a bunch of fringe NHLers.

I'm hopeful that Streit can have a good year. But yeah...

 

[Kant Think]

(mod)
The only thing Markov did better last season than Streit is to produce a bit more at ES. In the end the difference points production is 0.58 PPG vs 0.40 PPG.

Streit got more point on PP with less PP minutes.

Streit is also more mobile and quicker than Markov. Yes he is.

You would pay 5M more to get Markov back instead of Streit?

And you ask me if I'M ok? lol

EDIT: And I said Streit is there until Jerabek is ready. Jerabek is the top option and a very interesting one. I prefer by far betting on this plan than having a old slow Markov at 6M, who isn't even a good fit along Weber.

You hate winning, don't you?

 

[Kant Think]

At the same period last summer 90% of the fans had Beaulieu paired with Weber, and nobody was crying.

Even if Jerabek never played in the NHL, I would think from what I saw, heard and read on him, that he is aready a much better option than Beaulieu.

Jerabek has not started playing hockey last year you know. He was one of the best dmen in the KHL. From former NHL dman Spacek who knows what is about and others players who played against him in the KHL comments, I don't understand why so many fans can't imagine Jerabek succeed in a top4 role in the NHL. Specially playing 15-16 ES minutes along an elite defensive dman like Shea Weber.

Zaitsev averaged 22:01 TOI/G in his first season in the NHL last season. I don't even ask that much from Jerabek to become a successful plan in his first season with the Habs.

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[habs03]

I know us fans like to think of category of players playing with a specific type of players.

Ex everyone saying Weber partner needs to be a puck moving d-men etc. While I think its true, I'm not sure teams think that way.

I mean look at the world cup, CJ who ran the defense for dmen Canada, had no problem of breaking up the Vlasic-Doughty pair to play Vlasic with Weber, when they had a guy like Pietrangelo (who was playing LD), who suits "Weber ideal partner" more than Vlasic.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I know us fans like to think of category of players playing with a specific type of players.

Ex everyone saying Weber partner needs to be a puck moving d-men etc. While I think its true, I'm not sure teams think that way.

I mean look at the world cup, CJ who ran the defense for dmen Canada, had no problem of breaking up the Vlasic-Doughty pair to play Vlasic with Weber, when they had a guy like Pietrangelo (who was playing LD), who suits "Weber ideal partner" more than Vlasic.

Best-on-Best tournaments are different though. Especially with Canada, who has the depth to do that against anyone else. Montreal doesn't have the luxury to pair Weber with a more defensive oriented guy (and Alzner is not in the same galaxy as Vlasic when in comes to any part of their games), because they don't have the forward or D depth to sacrifice their top line + top pair to low-event hockey.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

Best-on-Best tournaments are different though. Especially with Canada, who has the depth to do that against anyone else. Montreal doesn't have the luxury to pair Weber with a more defensive oriented guy (and Alzner is not in the same galaxy as Vlasic when in comes to any part of their games), because they don't have the forward or D depth to sacrifice their top line + top pair to low-event hockey.

The Team Canada argument is getting old. It's like asking why Usain Bolt doesn't run as fast as the Flash... Team Canada and the Montreal Canadiens are not even in the universe to compare them.

 

[habs03]

Best-on-Best tournaments are different though. Especially with Canada, who has the depth to do that against anyone else. Montreal doesn't have the luxury to pair Weber with a more defensive oriented guy (and Alzner is not in the same galaxy as Vlasic when in comes to any part of their games), because they don't have the forward or D depth to sacrifice their top line + top pair to low-event hockey.

Well its best on best for everyone, so IMO sure team Canada had better depth, but so did their opponents like Team USA/Team USA... those 3rd and 4th lines are you not NHL 3/4th lines.

If you recall Vlasic and Weber did not put points but played top minutes and where just there to shutdown the other teams top lines. IMO I see CJ using Alzner-Weber late in games defending a lead but I believe they have someone else in mind based on the things they have said. I'm just saying they are opposed to the idea as some are here.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Well its best on best for everyone, so IMO sure team Canada had better depth, but so did their opponents like Team USA/Team USA... those 3rd and 4th lines are you not NHL 3/4th lines.

If you recall Vlasic and Weber did not put points but played top minutes and where just there to shutdown the other teams top lines. IMO I see CJ using Alzner-Weber late in games defending a lead but I believe they have someone else in mind based on the things they have said. I'm just saying they are opposed to the idea as some are here.

Team USA's bottom 6 and 3rd pair:

Justin Abdelkader Ryan Kesler T.J. Oshie
Kyle Palmieri David Backes Brandon Dubinsky

Jack Johnson Matt Niskanen

vs. Canada's:

Logan Couture Jonathan Toews Steven Stamkos
Matt Duchene Claude Giroux Joe Thornton

Alex Pietrangelo Brent Burns

The advantage is still clearly Canada's.

I know pairings aren't set in stone, but when someone posts a thread about Weber's partner, they don't mean the guy that will help defend the lead late in games. I don't even think you want an Alzner-Weber pair in that situation given Alzner's play style, but that's another thing entirely.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Tougher minutes is fine and good. Most number ones have tough minutes. And it's been acknowledged that Weber's are esp tough. But it's not enough to explain why there's no discernable difference in his teammates numbers.

How is it not, if they have the roughly the same GA/60 stat despite playing in front of the same goalie while one plays way more and harder minutes? You're still trying to suggest that quality of competition and size of sample don't matter here, and those are dubious positions to take when arguing what statistics mean.

It's not enough to explain why his advanced numbers are so poor vs elite performers.

Like all the "elite performers" that were listed earlier who play similar minutes and had worse stats? If your "advanced numbers" are telling you that someone like Shea Weber is "overrated", especially in the face of what all the important "basic numbers" and his usage say, you might have to throw them out. Or wait until someone figures out what they actually mean.

Your GA/60 is bunk. Again, you are cherrypicking numbers that make the guy look good rather than being consistent on a position.

No, it's legitimately impressive to have been on the ice for less than 30 goals at ES last year having played almost 1500 ES minutes. Look it up. Far better than even guys who got equal/better goaltending behind them.

Whatever that translates into as a GA/60 stat, I don't care, because like you said, you're hijacking this discussion/thread by constantly referring back to a conversation from months ago that isn't even particularly relevant to what I've had to explain for you at length in this one, vis-a-vis the "not even close"-ness of a Chara/Weber comparison... which thankfully you seem to have stopped challenging.

 

[habs03]

Team USA's bottom 6 and 3rd pair:

Justin Abdelkader Ryan Kesler T.J. Oshie
Kyle Palmieri David Backes Brandon Dubinsky

Jack Johnson Matt Niskanen

vs. Canada's:

Logan Couture Jonathan Toews Steven Stamkos
Matt Duchene Claude Giroux Joe Thornton

Alex Pietrangelo Brent Burns

The advantage is still clearly Canada's.

I know pairings aren't set in stone, but when someone posts a thread about Weber's partner, they don't mean the guy that will help defend the lead late in games. I don't even think you want an Alzner-Weber pair in that situation given Alzner's play style, but that's another thing entirely.

Personal I think an idea partner is like what a lot of ppl are saying, a smooth skating puck mover.. but I'm just pointing out that I'm not sure CJ/Bergevin think the same way.

IMO its 100% that another top 4 dmen is coming before the start of the year, IMO its too soon to judge but we'll see.