Malkin vs. Sakic/Yzerman

[daver]

It is always tricky to judge current players vs. retired ones but wanted to get an idea if people believe Malkin will end up behind, near or ahead of these two if he has an expected mid 30s to late 30s finish to his career. I.e. perhaps longevity is the only thing he is lacking at this point or perhaps injuries have cost him too many opportunities to prove his worth.

Click to read more...

 

[VanIslander]

With the puck, arguably.

Without the puck, the other 50% of the time: no way.

Malkin's ceiling is marginal top 50 all time. Perhaps he could rival a Milt Schmidt. But a Henri Richard? A Bryan Trottier? That is about as high as one can expect the 33 year old could possibly reach (assuming he doesn't have ten more years in the tank, which is unlikely).

 

[Khomutov]

He is absolutely on the same level as were Yzerman and Sakic. Every player has his weaknesses, but talent wise i think he is right there. Injuries are the biggest problem for Malkin, both Yzerman and Sakic were much more durable.

 

[Pominville Knows]

He is absolutely on the same level as were Yzerman and Sakic. Every player has his weaknesses, but talent wise i think he is right there. Injuries are the biggest problem for Malkin, both Yzerman and Sakic were much more durable.

What if Malkin suddenly gets healthier, however unlikely that would be?
Sakic was as well though, so maybe the russian will have to aim for Yzerman.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Better offensive player, worst player.

 

[JackSlater]

I don't think that he will ever match them in terms of legacy due to injuries. In terms of ability he probably had more talent.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I don’t think a whole lot separates Malkin and Yzerman at this point (#30-35 range; Sakic just north of that).

Obviously missing ~16 games per season over the last 7 seasons (though never more than 25 in an individual season) has precluded him from taking awards votes, but he’s still a 92-points-per-82 player from 2013-2019, so he’s still fantastic.

I mean, he was healthy (78 GP) just two seasons ago and finished 4th in scoring. And he led the playoffs in scoring the year before that. I don’t think he’s done.

 

[Staniowski]

Malkin is definitely the best, most elite, of these 3 players. He is a better skater, and his overall talent with the puck - the sum of shooting, passing, stickhandling, etc. - is superior to both Sakic and Yzerman.

Malkin's size is a great advantage. He's fantastic on the PP. He's been a great scorer everywhere he's played since he was a teenager, a better scorer than the other two.

 

[JohnnyBerts]

I think Sakic is the best of the bunch but obviously it's close. To me Yzerman was stellar to start his career then died hard in the second half. Malkin still looks great and if he can have a few more successful seasons, I put him second on this list.

 

[frisco]

Just one measure--Top 10 points/game:

(9)-Sakic-2, 3, 3, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 8.
(7)-Yzerman-3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9.
(9)-Malkin-1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 7, 8. He's currently 6th.

I'd say they're pretty close overall. I don't really buy the Sakic/Yzerman were far better defensive players as both those guys really weren't considered great two-way players until later in their careers and I think Malkin's defense is underrated. Also, Malkin has a pretty large physical edge on both.

My Best-Carey

 

[GMR]

Anyone picking Malkin must not care about two-way play or faceoffs. He's not much at either. Certainly not on Yzerman or Sakic's level.

Offensively, he's had a great career, but Yzerman still had a higher peak with lesser linemates. If Malkin retires tomorrow at 33 years old, nobody in their right mind should pick him above Yzerman. Sakic did a lot of his damage later in his career, so he still has the edge on Malkin also.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Oh- if this thread had been created about 2-3 years ago... I would have been right there thinking that these three names are not out of place being mentioned together.

Lately though, I'm not so sure. I can't help but believe that Malkin put a garish-lookin' skid-mark on his résumé last year. More than a point-a-game, okay, but he was really bleeding even strength goals-against. His minus-25 was last place on a team that was positive 32 in goal-differential, all while racking up a Kane-esque 64% O-zone starts. His team and situationally-adjusted plus-minus had to have been absolutely frightful.

Of course, that one streak of soil doesn't blot out years-and-years of excellence in other campaigns... but it's more than enough to make me turtle into "wait-and-see" mode, to see how the remainder of this act plays out.

 

[JackSlater]

Malkin is definitely the best, most elite, of these 3 players. He is a better skater, and his overall talent with the puck - the sum of shooting, passing, stickhandling, etc. - is superior to both Sakic and Yzerman.

Malkin's size is a great advantage. He's fantastic on the PP. He's been a great scorer everywhere he's played since he was a teenager, a better scorer than the other two.

If all were healthy, Yzerman (ie pre-knee injury Yzerman) would be the best skater of the three. Malkin does have the best hands overall.

 

[wetcoast]

Oh- if this thread had been created about 2-3 years ago... I would have been right there thinking that these three names are not out of place being mentioned together.

Lately though, I'm not so sure. I can't help but believe that Malkin put a garish-lookin' skid-mark on his résumé last year. More than a point-a-game, okay, but he was really bleeding even strength goals-against. His minus-25 was last place on a team that was positive 32 in goal-differential, all while racking up a Kane-esque 64% O-zone starts. His team and situationally-adjusted plus-minus had to have been absolutely frightful.

Of course, that one streak of soil doesn't blot out years-and-years of excellence in other campaigns... but it's more than enough to make me turtle into "wait-and-see" mode, to see how the remainder of this act plays out.

Fair enough but his play this year is helping people forget about last year and the Phil Kessel effect.

I think Malkin will always rank behind Sakic and Yzerman for different reasons when all 3 will probably be really close in careerwise value.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Is Malkin's poorest season any worse for his legacy than being rumored to being traded for Felix Potvin...?

 

[BenchBrawl]

Malkin is definitely the best, most elite, of these 3 players. He is a better skater, and his overall talent with the puck - the sum of shooting, passing, stickhandling, etc. - is superior to both Sakic and Yzerman.

Malkin's size is a great advantage. He's fantastic on the PP. He's been a great scorer everywhere he's played since he was a teenager, a better scorer than the other two.

If you judge Evgeni Malkin on those criterias, he's also better than Crosby and Ovechkin and everyone since Mario Lemieux (except maybe Jaromir Jagr).

When I watched Malkin on video as a prospect, I couldn't believe he didn't went 1st overall. I had seen little of Ovechkin but still; Malkin looked like the perfect hockey player. The next great thing. Based on that, he underachieved, despite his great career. He only truly put it together for one season in 2012. Even his other Art Ross season didn't feel the same. But granted injuries probably killed his momentum.

In the end, Malkin has been the sum of his parts but not more.

I don't understand why he's not in the process of becoming a strong two-way center now that he's on the wrong side of 30. He has the talent to do it. Or maybe not.

 

[VanIslander]

... To me Yzerman was stellar to start his career then died hard in the second half. ...

Absurd.

 

[GreatGonzo]

How do people rank them in terms of
Playoffs? Who was the better performer?

Malkin: 162-63-105-168
-3 cups(lead team 2x in scoring/playoffs 2x)
-Conn Smythe(24-14-22-36) has

Yzerman: 196-70-115-185
-3 cups(lead team 2x in scoring/playoffs 1x)
-Conn Smythe(22-6-18-24)

Sakic: 172-84-104-188
-2 cups(lead team 2x in scoring/playoffs 2x)
-Conn Smythe(22-18-16-34)

 

[Sentinel]

Somehow I knew who created the thread without looking.

Malkin is close to the 19s but will not surpass them, short of a late career miracle. I don't see how Malkin's shot is better than Yzerman's. Without 99 and 66 in the picture, Yzerman's point finishes blow him away. A 35 y.o. Yzerman became the 1AS.

All three have comparable peaks, but the 19s were better all around players and more consistent / healthier too.

 

[JohnnyBerts]

Absurd.

Are you joking? Yzerman was one of the best players in the game for the first 10 years! He battled a lot of injuries at the end. Sure they shot him up to perform in the playoffs but he was a shade of his former self during the regular season. That's all I meant - if you watched him play I'm not sure why you would disagree.

 

[Sentinel]

Are you joking? Yzerman was one of the best players in the game for the first 10 years! He battled a lot of injuries at the end. Sure they shot him up to perform in the playoffs but he was a shade of his former self during the regular season. That's all I meant - if you watched him play I'm not sure why you would disagree.

It's you who is joking. The second half of Yzerman's career included a Conn Smythe, a 1AS selection, and a Selke. He was selected for three Canadian Olympic teams (turned one down) and a World Cup team. "Died hard" is not what I (or anybody else) should use to describe the second half of his career.

 

[tony d]

Yzerman
Sakic
Malkin

is how I'd rank them.

 

[Big Phil]

You have to put Malkin third at this point mainly because both Yzerman and Sakic added a lot later in their careers after the age of 33. Sakic in 2004 was still a 1st team all-star and in 2007 had another 100 point year. So despite the offense these guys had earlier in their careers their two-way play kept them relevant or elite in later years. I guess the general consensus is that Sakic is over Yzerman here but I have always been one who never thought the gap was very big there. What puts Sakic over the top is that he had a 100+ point year in 1990 and then in 2007. He was elite offensively for a long time. Other than a couple of injury prone years in the late 1990s he was relatively healthy. Yzerman too. There is a very short list of players in NHL history who have had 100+ point seasons 6 years in a row but Yzerman is one of them. 3rd most points in a season after you know who.

These are high standards to reach. Malkin is an all-time great player, but when judging these three players you have to start nitpicking a little bit. Who had MORE great seasons. To be honest, I think Malkin rests third here and the other two also have a sparkling playoff resume.

2008, 2009 and 2012 are amazing years. Those are years where he was every bit as good as Crosby and Ovechkin. 2012 he was sort of on his own that year because Crosby was hurt and Ovechkin was in that mid-career slump. Nagging injuries are probably what has kept him from being higher. 2012-'17 he missed a lot of time in the regular seasons. 2018 he had that great 98 point year and he probably will be right up there this year at this pace too despite missing a few games.

On a per game basis, it is hard to say because he never lost his PPG status. That has always been good regardless. But because of missed time he had gaps in his career where he was sort of forgotten.

He's the type of player that when he is "on" he is the best player in the world. He's been "on" often in his career too. Looks like the puck is on a string with him sometimes and he is just having fun playing keep away. We'll see how the rest of his career goes in order to judge him. The good thing is with these 50-60 game years that he had he still could crack 70 points. So if he is healthy is he the best of the three?

 

[scott clam]

Malkin is kindof like Jagr, minus the durability. Or Forsberg with more durability.

He's clutch as hell though, and no one can take his Smythe, Hart, and twin Rosses away from him.

 

[bobholly39]

How do people rank them in terms of
Playoffs? Who was the better performer?

Malkin: 162-63-105-168
-3 cups(lead team 2x in scoring/playoffs 2x)
-Conn Smythe(24-14-22-36) has

Yzerman: 196-70-115-185
-3 cups(lead team 2x in scoring/playoffs 1x)
-Conn Smythe(22-6-18-24)

Sakic: 172-84-104-188
-2 cups(lead team 2x in scoring/playoffs 2x)
-Conn Smythe(22-18-16-34)

Pretty comparable to be honest.

As others have said - Malkin is a clear 3rd all time here for career but it's mostly due to lack of longevity (which includes health). It's possible he could still pass one, or both - if he ages well enough/plays long enough, though seems unlikely. But their playoffs are pretty close.

I'd probably do Sakic #1, Malkin #2, Yzerman #3.