Malkin VS Ovechkin

[Vatican Roulette]

I doubt Crosby would be hyped so much if his upside was only Kariya. People expect Crosby to become THE premiere player in the nhl, something kariya has not come close to. But what do I know, i've seen very little of crosby.

I bet that if Kariya had played CHL hockey, no NCAA, he would have been just as hyped as Crosby. Also, Kariya's size was a factor, still got him 4th overall.

Games: 39
Goals: 25
Assists: 75
Points 100


that was kariya's draft year.

I think the comparison's are dead on.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

The player that completely transformed Colorado's locker room attitude, IMO, was Patrick Roy. It was from that point that this team became contender material. Joe can thank his lucky star that goaltenders aren't allowed to wear the C or this ridiculous tag as a leader wouldn't ever have surfaced.

funny thing about that trade.

In Roy's last game, he played Detroit and got shelled 11-1. Because the coach didn't take him out, the straw broke the camel's back.

Roy's traded to Colorado, and one of the leagues biggests rivalries gets started because Detroit kept scoring. They shot themselves in the foot on that one.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

funny thing about that trade.

In Roy's last game, he played Detroit and got shelled 11-1. Because the coach didn't take him out, the straw broke the camel's back.

Roy's traded to Colorado, and one of the leagues biggests rivalries gets started because Detroit kept scoring. They shot themselves in the foot on that one.

Yeah, I remember that beating Roy took so clearly! Earlier that day, we got some huge bets going on this game.

It's really amazing that a single saturday night game had so many far-reaching consequences. Personally, I think both Avs and Wings fan won that day because it spawned a rivalry and that's what hockey is about. Intense, high-octane games.

Sucks a bit more for Montreal, though. But IMO their decline had already started before Roy left.

 

[octopi]

Malkin is the type of player that takes a while to fully develop - he hasn't even grown into his body yet. His upside is unreal.
What impresses me the most is his skating ability. He's a big guy with fantastic hands and vision but can also fly. Off hand, I can't think of any similar- like players with that combination (Thornton? Sundin? Spezzza? - maybe Lecavalier).

Mario Lemieux without the injuries? A bigger Peter Forsberg? A tougher Jagr? Those all came to mind...

 

[clefty]

To quote Dark Metamorphosis:

shot : ovechkin
passing : malkin
skating : ovechkin
hockey sense : malkin
grit : ovechkin
stickhandling : tie
defense: malkin
beard : malkin

4-3, beard puts malkin ahead. guess that settles that debate.

End of discussion.

 

[Skylab]

Even still, it's not the point... regardless of whether anyone should be compared to Lemieux, Gretzky or Orr, it's happening. Crosby and Lemieux were compared by Gretzky himself.

Just read th HF rating criteria. The point was that a 9.5 is a stone's throw away from a 10 (the caliber of Lemieux et al). If Malkin were to be a 9.5, he'd be expected to surpass Joe Thornton, no question. Thornton is not a 9.5, he's 8.5, 9 tops in terms of HF ratings. That's it, it's very simple.

And as a side note, I really don't think Jagr has ever been too far behind Lemieux or Gretzky.

but the point isn't what ranking would Thornton be now, the point is what ranking would he have been then. If you want to assume that Malkin is a 9.5 what would Joe have been at the height of his hype prime?

I also wonder if it's as simple as saying that Joe is currently the same ranking as players like Perezhogin, Semin etc. and an incredible .5 ahead of someone like Schremp (assuming your ranking of 8.5). Either you underestimate Joe or their are prospects ranked higher than reality would support.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Even still, it's not the point... regardless of whether anyone should be compared to Lemieux, Gretzky or Orr, it's happening. Crosby and Lemieux were compared by Gretzky himself.

Just read th HF rating criteria. The point was that a 9.5 is a stone's throw away from a 10 (the caliber of Lemieux et al). If Malkin were to be a 9.5, he'd be expected to surpass Joe Thornton, no question. Thornton is not a 9.5, he's 8.5, 9 tops in terms of HF ratings. That's it, it's very simple.

And as a side note, I really don't think Jagr has ever been too far behind Lemieux or Gretzky.

As a Pens fan who has watched both, Jagr and Mario, from day one of each of their careers, I can not disagree more. Jagr had boatloads of talent (and yet still not as much talent as Mario) but also had the tendency to showboat . . . hold onto the puck far too long, and at times he would beat the three defenders on him in ways that made your jaw drop (Alexi Kovalov used to do the same, which was maddening, as he was even worse about it that Jagr), he was so powerful with those legs churning and had such great moves. And yet just as often if not more often he would lose the puck. Mario had the intangibles Jagr never did, never will. He had that vision thing, how the play seemed to slow down just for him and he could see who would break free half the rink away, seemingly with eyes in the back of his head and could make the pass right on their stick in full stride. That Jagr never had anywhere close to Mario. That combination of scorer, finisher and passer, but more importantly having that vision thing that the greats of any sport have. The best I can describe it is like a great QB in the NFL who can pick out the fifth or sixth option, the field just slows for him and he knows who will break free 20 yds before they do, and hit them 9 times out of 10. That is Mario, that was not Jagr. Perhaps, from what I have been reading Malkin has some of that. If so I could care less if he scores only 15 goals a year, he would be invaluable.

 

[helicecopter]

If you read the HF ratings, a 10 is 'generational talent,' suitable for only the likes of Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, maybe Forsberg and Jagr. A 9.5 is a fingernail away from a 10 and indicates that a player might reach that level.

Where can i read the HF ratings?

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Where can i read the HF ratings?

On every team page, you will find them next (usually above) to the players, who are rated.

 

[Mothra]

To quote Dark Metamorphosis:



End of discussion.

But you forgot one......

bigger bones: Ovechkin

so its a tie

 

[helicecopter]

On every team page, you will find them next (usually above) to the players, who are rated.

Thanks!

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Yeah, I remember that beating Roy took so clearly! Earlier that day, we got some huge bets going on this game.

It's really amazing that a single saturday night game had so many far-reaching consequences. Personally, I think both Avs and Wings fan won that day because it spawned a rivalry and that's what hockey is about. Intense, high-octane games.

Sucks a bit more for Montreal, though. But IMO their decline had already started before Roy left.

didn't help that none of the three players he was traded for never panned out into stars, but i agree on the decline.

 

[Seph]

Yeah, I remember that beating Roy took so clearly! Earlier that day, we got some huge bets going on this game.

It's really amazing that a single saturday night game had so many far-reaching consequences. Personally, I think both Avs and Wings fan won that day because it spawned a rivalry and that's what hockey is about. Intense, high-octane games.

Sucks a bit more for Montreal, though. But IMO their decline had already started before Roy left.

Agreed on the rivalry bit. I'd say the only losers from that night were Montreal and Kris Draper's face.

 

[FlyersFan10*]

I see Malkin as a more physical version of Ron Francis. For all the names that get thrown around on this board, very seldom do you see anyone referred to as the next Ron Francis. If there was ever a player who should be on the all under rated team, Francis would be it. If Malkin has a career similar to that of Ron Francis, I think most Pens fans would be extremely happy.

As for Ovechkin, I see a more physical version of Nik Zherdev. I've said it before and I'll say it again. As much hype as Nash gets in Columbus, give it three years and Zherdev will be the player that gets more hype. Zherdev is that good. That's what I see Ovechkin becoming.

So, when you think of things, you really can't say one will be better than the other because each plays a different game. They're both going to be good and when you consider that here is going to be some great talent in the league for the next little while, it's something we should be revelling in and that when the league finally gets running again, that they promote the hell out of all of the talented youngsters in the game.

 

[clefty]

But you forgot one......

bigger bones: Ovechkin

so its a tie

Ah, But Malkin is on his way to gaining ascendency in that department with his very own line of calcium supplement based drink.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I see Malkin as a more physical version of Ron Francis. For all the names that get thrown around on this board, very seldom do you see anyone referred to as the next Ron Francis. If there was ever a player who should be on the all under rated team, Francis would be it. If Malkin has a career similar to that of Ron Francis, I think most Pens fans would be extremely happy.

As for Ovechkin, I see a more physical version of Nik Zherdev. I've said it before and I'll say it again. As much hype as Nash gets in Columbus, give it three years and Zherdev will be the player that gets more hype. Zherdev is that good. That's what I see Ovechkin becoming.

I respect your opinion, but I think right now, on HF, Zherdev is the most overrated NHLer. He's good, but the hype is already ridiculous. Unlike you, I am of the opinion his hype will probably go down, not up. Other 2003 are going to catch up to him in the next two years. I wouldn't hold my breath for him to be a more important player than Rick Nash in Columbus.

Your Malkin to Francis comparison has some merit, however. I kind of like it!

Just as an addendum, a lot of players have been compared to Ron Francis. Some that I can think of just off the top of my head are

Daniel "Grittier Ron Francis" Tkaczuk
Kris "Better Playmaking version of Ron Francis" Beech
and
Eric "Just a plain better Ron Francis" Staal

 

[CRUNK JUICE]

I respect your opinion, but I think right now, on HF, Zherdev is the most overrated NHLer. He's good, but the hype is already ridiculous. Unlike you, I am of the opinion his hype will probably go down, not up. Other 2003 are going to catch up to him in the next two years. I wouldn't hold my breath for him to be a more important player than Rick Nash in Columbus.

Your Malkin to Francis comparison has some merit, however. I kind of like it!

Just as an addendum, a lot of players have been compared to Ron Francis. Some that I can think of just off the top of my head are

Daniel "Grittier Ron Francis" Tkaczuk
Kris "Better Playmaking version of Ron Francis" Beech
and
Eric "Just a plain better Ron Francis" Staal

I think it's more Eric "Better Skating Ron Francis" Staal. As much as I like Staal (and I'm kind of a closet Canes' fan), I don't think he'll be as good as Ronnie was. That said, unlike the other two, he looks poised to live up to at least some of that very lofty comparison.

 

[Mothra]

Ah, But Malkin is on his way to gaining ascendency in that department with his very own line of calcium supplement based drink.

Yes.....but at the same time it should be noted that "many" teams have said that Ovechkin has closed the gap in the beard category with the addition of a jazz spot

 

[freakazoid]

Russia is more know for their Vodka

And Quebec for their cheeze, but they still produce top flight NHL players. I don't see the point of bringing out such stupidity.

 

[octopi]

Yes.....but at the same time it should be noted that "many" teams have said that Ovechkin has closed the gap in the beard category with the addition of a jazz spot

Hmm, I guess we'll let best tatoo be the clincher. I'm thinking a cute fluffy pink bunny would do the trick

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

As a Pens fan who has watched both, Jagr and Mario, from day one of each of their careers, I can not disagree more. Jagr had boatloads of talent (and yet still not as much talent as Mario) but also had the tendency to showboat . . . hold onto the puck far too long, and at times he would beat the three defenders on him in ways that made your jaw drop (Alexi Kovalov used to do the same, which was maddening, as he was even worse about it that Jagr), he was so powerful with those legs churning and had such great moves. And yet just as often if not more often he would lose the puck. Mario had the intangibles Jagr never did, never will. He had that vision thing, how the play seemed to slow down just for him and he could see who would break free half the rink away, seemingly with eyes in the back of his head and could make the pass right on their stick in full stride. That Jagr never had anywhere close to Mario. That combination of scorer, finisher and passer, but more importantly having that vision thing that the greats of any sport have. The best I can describe it is like a great QB in the NFL who can pick out the fifth or sixth option, the field just slows for him and he knows who will break free 20 yds before they do, and hit them 9 times out of 10. That is Mario, that was not Jagr. Perhaps, from what I have been reading Malkin has some of that. If so I could care less if he scores only 15 goals a year, he would be invaluable.

OK, once again, that isn't the point I'm making, but I guess that's a lost cause.