Malkin VS Ovechkin

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Habsfan 32

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Right now Ovechkin is better but it would not suprise me at all in in the long run Malkin is a better and more important player. I see Malkin becoming a dominant center that can score and pass better then anyone in the game. I'd like to see a line of Recchi-Malkin-Lemieux when the NHL comes back. With Malkin between these two guys we could see how good he can be.
 

Hockeymomma

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The Russian veterans that came home this year to play in the Russian League almost universally stated in the Russian media that Malkin is already is the better all around player hands down and many said he is a Fedorov/Thornton type of player.
 

Chimaera

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Reading this, I get the impression that some people haven't seen much of either player.


While I'm not going to claim I've watched a lot of both, because I haven't. But with what I've read, and what I've seen, some are missing the boat.


First, How can there be any debate on who's faster? Ovechkin won the fastest skater competition breaking the Record on a European Rink (technically breaking the NHL record too, but I won't debate that...) and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Malkin was at that game where the skate took place. If he's faster than Ovechkin, why didn't he win? He might be 'graceful' or have quick strides, but he's not faster.

Secondly, how has Malkin all of a sudden earned the title of being strong and physical? He looks like a rail a lot of the time. Everyone would agree (even himself) that he still needs to add a good 15 pounds of muscle. In the NHL, where there is still clutching and grabbing, he's going to get pushed off the puck. That's assuming he comes over next season (if there is one). My bet is, he won't, staying in Russia, till he matures. Yes, he's shown he isn't afraid of contact, but that doesn't make you physical. Semin isn't afraid of contact, but he isn't ever going to be considered physical (Speaking of Semin, he's deceptively fast, but not sure if he's got the gamebreaking speed other players do, he never showed it that often in Washington) And how is Malkin better than Ovechkin when it comes to strength and physicality? Some of you talk like Ovechkin's a one legged midget. Ovechkin's a well built 6'1+, and doesn't need a whole lot more muscle to be effective against men 5-10 years his senior. He'll probably add a bit, but doesn't exactly look like he needs a few more meals to fill out his jersey.

I think the implication is still that Malkin could be a better player down the road... and that might be true. But to say he's got more vision, more passing is a bit of a knock on Ovechkin, who has both of those qualities in decent amounts. He just goes for the finish more often then not. Whoever said it earlier in this thread said it best, Ovechkin's pretty much ready for the NHL if it started tomorrow, Malkin could use a year or two of seasoning. Both still have vast potential as well.
 

tom_servo

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Chimaera said:
Ovechkin's pretty much ready for the NHL if it started tomorrow, Malkin could use a year or two of seasoning.

I don't think Malkin would have much trouble making the transition to the NHL next season; the general feeling is that he probably only needs a summer in the weight room, and he can make the jump. Given his performances in the WJCs, RSL, and WC, I couldn't imagine he'd need two years.
 

Mothra

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Married to Hockey said:
The Russian veterans that came home this year to play in the Russian League almost universally stated in the Russian media that Malkin is already is the better all around player hands down and many said he is a Fedorov/Thornton type of player.

Please provide some links that support these claims....should be no problem since it was "universally stated"
 

Jaded-Fan

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From one who went at it tooth and nail with ones like mothra pre-draft over this subject, and the vast majority of even Pens fans saying that AO was no question better in potential (people like Jacobv for example were especially fair and strong in their opinions this way despite being Pens fans) let me say that there is no question, right now AO is better than Malkin, though it is much closer than many if not most ever would have imagined. What we are talking about is potential and I would have to say a growing consensus is that you could throw either in a hat right now and predict as well who would come out on top, both could . . . and I stress could . . .become something very special. I for one never argued that Malkin was > AO right now, in fact never argued anything but that Malkin was very close if not equal in potential. How could that do anything but thrill me though if that even comes close to being so. As a caveat I have argued that all things being equal a top center is more valuable and rare than a top winger, and stand by that, but still I really think that neither Washington or Pittsburgh have anything to worry about and any team would be happy with either one.
 

GoBoltz56

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Married to Hockey said:
The Russian veterans that came home this year to play in the Russian League almost universally stated in the Russian media that Malkin is already is the better all around player hands down and many said he is a Fedorov/Thornton type of player.
And we all know how similar Fedorov and Thorntons playing styles are.. :propeller
 

Jacob

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I think comparisons to Thornton are accurate enough. Big guy, likes to dish, will surprise you with a monster hit every once in a while.

I think Malkin is somewhere between Marleau and Thornton.

Secondly, how has Malkin all of a sudden earned the title of being strong and physical? He looks like a rail a lot of the time.
Balance can make up for girth. Malkin has balance.

I think he's one of those guys that doesn't need to be 225 lbs. to be effective. I think he'd be very comfortable at 205. Which still means he has room to improve in the strength department. But for a kid that's only 190 right now strength isn't as big of an issue on the ice as some would seem.
 

Skylab

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BobMarleyNYR said:
You know what bothers me? When angry little people insult others because of differing opinions.

Over-react much?

my post to refresh your memory
"IMO that statement is ridiculous and simply indicative of the pro-prospect kool-aid that people drink before posting on HF.
The kid looks promising and seems to have a great future in front of him, but lets acutally let him play in the league before we start making comparisons like this one.
We need to remember that Joe has surpassed 100 points and at 25 is one of the top young stars in the game. Malkin may get there; then again he may not..."

Find the insult? I called your statement ridiculous, not you. There is a difference between saying you are an idiot and saying that what you did was idiotic or saying that you are smart or saying that you did something smart

The first sentence was not meant as an insult and it's not my problem if you chose to take it as one. The rest of my post simply uses logic and fact to debate your assertion that Malkin is better than Thornton. I would add that you didn't quantify your opinion in any way and have already admitted that you've seen Malkin play once.

as for your post; pot calling the kettle black...
 
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Mothra

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Jaded-Fan said:
From one who went at it tooth and nail with ones like mothra pre-draft over this subject

To set the record straight...we did not go at it on this subject...at the time I said over and over that I had no idea who was better or who would be better...because I had never seen either of them play at that point.....what we discussed was the notion that, as some poster put it "many teams feel the gap has closed"....lets not open that up again...at least not in this thread.....but I wanted to get that straight (yes....I am arguing about what we argued about)
 

Jaded-Fan

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Mothra said:
To set the record straight...we did not go at it on this subject...at the time I said over and over that I had no idea who was better or who would be better...because I had never seen either of them play at that point.....what we discussed was the notion that, as some poster put it "many teams feel the gap has closed"....lets not open that up again...at least not in this thread.....but I wanted to get that straight (yes....I am arguing about what we argued about)

You expect me to remember who I argued about what specific subject over a year ago? . . . I am lucky to have been in the ball park . . . ;)

And yes, very useless to rehash that argument at this point, with the development of both it has become somewhat irrelevant whether Malkin had closed the gap over a year ago.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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Smart Alek said:
Well, there are different types of speed.

There's explosiveness, and shiftiness, which as you stated, Ovechkin excels at.

However, there's also the deceptive 'ramped up' speed that only a big man like Malkin can posess, which is better suited for making end to end rushes than breaking in from the point. (i.e. Malkin made many end to end rushes in the RSL this year, and when he did, it looked like the opposition was standing still.)

Two different skating styles for two different types of players would be how I see it. Personally, I would not say either are better than the other at it.
Last I checked

Ovechkin - 6`2 212
Malkin - 6`3 185

I seen both players skate, Ovehckin has better acceleration, mobility, top end speed, agility and strength in his stride. Malkin is smoother, thats about it. If I were to compare players in the NHL:

Ovehckin - Kovalchuk
Malkin - Linden
 

EroCaps

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Habsfan 32 said:
As far as their offensive ceilling goes I think Malkin has a higher ceilling. He also seems a bit more mature mentally then Ovechkin.

Please explain not using the WJC as a frame of reference. (Malkin was if anything more guilty in that episode)
 

EroCaps

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Jacobv2 said:
More guilty how-so?

I wasn't looking to trash Malkin or re-open that debate. The whole "debacle" was blown way out of proportion on all accounts IMO. I was referring to Malkin skating by the US bench. IMO they're both leaders and captain material. I can't imagine what these boards would do if either pulled a Nash.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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EroCaps said:
I wasn't looking to trash Malkin or re-open that debate. The whole "debacle" was blown way out of proportion on all accounts IMO. I was referring to Malkin skating by the US bench. IMO they're both leaders and captain material. I can't imagine what these boards would do if either pulled a Nash.

You mean, hook a referee?

People would probaby freak out, say how classless Russians are, say that they don't want such players on their team, and of course, predict that valiant, classy Canadian players will split their skulls once they reach the NHL.

Unless the player is property of their team. Then they'd just say it doesn't matter and he'll be fine :D
 

Jacob

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EroCaps said:
I wasn't looking to trash Malkin or re-open that debate. The whole "debacle" was blown way out of proportion on all accounts IMO. I was referring to Malkin skating by the US bench. IMO they're both leaders and captain material. I can't imagine what these boards would do if either pulled a Nash.
I thought you were talking about his on-ice play, like decision-making. Fair enough.
 

#66

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Steve Latin said:
Ditto that, although I doubt Malkin will ever reach Sundin's weight. When he's fully grown he'll probably be Lecavalier's size, so comparisons to him will be inevitable.

I must say though, there are times when Malkin reminds me of Lemieux with his smooth, intelligent passing. If he turns out to be half as good, I'll be ecstatic!
You might not remember Sundin as a rookie. The guy was very, very lean. IMO Sundin plays better with a little less weight on his frame. The thing that Malkin will bring, along with his size and skill, is a bunch of intangibles. Face offs, two way play, leadership, and some grit are all there to make for a very well rounded player. IMO he reminds me of Sundin when he was with Quebec. Pretty much the same great player that he is now but more mobile and active. Malkin is a better long passer though and just a better passer in general.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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#66 said:
You might not remember Sundin as a rookie. The guy was very, very lean. IMO Sundin plays better with a little less weight on his frame.

Yeah, but there's not just that. Mats Sundin was at his best lean... and on the wing. He was also gunning a lot more for offense and padding at the time, as were pretty much all Nordiques, including Joe "people think I'm a leader" Sakic.

Sundin is a completely different player now. Much less flashy, heavier, more well rounded and taking center responsibilities.
 

Jeffrey

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I'll explain my comment about malkin speed ...
from all the games i've seen WJC,WC of malkin and ovechkin .. malkin is the ONLY guy to never stop moving his foot while entering the attacking zone.. that's great aspect of the game.. actually i've never seen any 19 years player do that and that includes crosby .. ovechkin is the best forechecker.. if you dump the puck he'll go get it!! but I was HIGHLY impress by Malkin play.. you don't have to compare him to any player .. also .. to me malkin vision on ice is slighty better than ovechkin ..
but Ovechkin has better shots,more intensity in his game ... if I have to chose for my team I'll take Malkin .. but Ovechkin would be real close .. actually if ovechkin was a center I would take him !
 

Habsfan 32

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EroCaps said:
Please explain not using the WJC as a frame of reference. (Malkin was if anything more guilty in that episode)

He looks alot less flashy and more calm on the ice kind of like Sakic while Ovechkin looks like Roenick when he's on the ice.
 

Chimaera

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helicecopter said:
WHAT??!!?? :biglaugh:

Jesus Christ, i knew Semin is overrated on these boards, but sorry, this is frankly too much to take without a BIG laugh!


I don't think he's that much overrated. If anything, it's finally swung back, because he didn't get a whole lot of it till a few months back. If anything, Semin's put out production at all levels, something that other prospects can't say.


And to respond to the Malkin being ready for this coming year, I am pretty sure the Penguin Organization will want him to come, and he definitely will play adequately, but development wise, he could still use a year of seasoning and growth. This strike year benefits him a whole bunch, because he definitely wouldn't have made the jump. But, I still feel that in a NA game, where the ice isn't as wide, and there's a lot more clutching and grabbing (for the time being) he's not going to be as effective as he could be in two or three years. Yeah, he should do well. I've said before that a traffic cone could look alright on Mario's wing, which probably will be where he will play. So any strength deficiency could be masked a bit being next to a guy like Mario. The debate on whether a year more of RSL or AHL or whatever would be better is for another time.
 
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