Malkin '100%' coming over next year. RSL club threatens legal action

[LoonieToon]

Assessing how tough it is to get an award is irrelevant. There is more competition in football, but that doesn't change the fact that Gretzky was to hockey what Maradona was to football. They had pretty much the same status.


I said proven player, not proven NHL star.

There is more to hockey than the NHL.

What exactly is your point though? You think it's legitimate to compare Malkin at this stage of his career to Sheva at the time of the transfer? If that's it, then we'll just agree to disagree.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

"I've already made up my mind for next season -- I'll be leaving for the NHL. I'm 100 percent sure of that," Malkin, who has a contract with Metallurg through 2008, was quoted as saying by Sport-Express newspaper.

His move across the Atlantic, however, could be delayed because Russia remains the only major hockey power not to sign a transfer agreement with the NHL. Under the agreement, approved by the International Ice Hockey Federation last year, Metallurg would have received $900,000 for Malkin.

But Magnitogorsk general director Gennady Velichkin threatened to go to court if Pittsburgh do not buy out Malkin's contract.

http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=sportsNews&storyID=2006-05-01T113008Z_01_L01689148_RTRIDST_0_SPORTS-ICE-HOCKEY-MALKIN-COL.XML&archived=False

Sounds like desperation to me, doesn't it? And realization that they are realizing that they are going to get either an IIHF payment or zip. And not liking that at all. As for Malkin, I love how definitive he is about coming.

Could backfire for the NHL. If NHL teams stop respecting Russian contracts, the RSL could do the same thing.

 

[jekoh]

You think it's legitimate to compare Malkin at this stage of his career to Sheva at the time of the transfer? If that's it, then we'll just agree to disagree.

Yes.

Fine.

 

[WalterSobchak]

NHL teams have the right to decide the futures of players they draft. Why can't Russian clubs decide futures of players they develop?

The NHL doesn't decide a players future. A player drafted by the NHL has no obligation to play in the NHL, but owns their "rights" to play in North America, specifically with other league's in North America that the NHL has previously negotiated tterms with. (stupid improper sentence). If there is a league that does not have an agreement with the NHL, I don't think labour laws can prevent the player from playing. Thus the WHA 30 years ago.

A player can go play in Europe, Russia or Australia, but the NHL team that drafted him has his rights should he ever wish to play in North America or any other league which has an agreement with it.

The Russian Federation has no agreement currently and should the NHL ever expand into Russia, there may be some problems with Malkin playing in that country...but for now...

 

[WalterSobchak]

I say if russia doesn't agree with us by the time next season comes and Malkin doesn't come over or any of the other Russians for us not to draft or bring in anymore Russians (though smuggle Malkin here before they do that, obviously ) untill they sign, but that's just me.

Every NHL franchise has the right to not draft Russians, sure. Malkin can even stay in Russia until he is considered a FA in NHL (unsure how the NHL CBA deals with this, but my guess is he would need to be 30+ to get that sort of freedom, even then...)

NHL teams will never pass up the best players any country has to offer. The only reason P.Bure, Mogilny and S.Federov were drafted as late as they were in their respective years is because it was unclear if they would (or could) ever come over. IIRC didn't Mogilny essentially defect to get over here?

 

[SuperUnknown]

That's the main point. A US court might rule for Magnitogorsk. On the other hand, the shoe was on the other foot with Alexander Semin:

Washington held his rights. Through the CBA RFA qualifying/arbitration process, there was a contract procedure in place. Semin signed with a RSL club anyway. The Caps sued. A US court ruled for the Caps. The RSL ignored the ruling; a Russian court refused to enforce the ruling. A US court might use that as precedent if Malkin hopped a plane and came to the NHL. Absent an international contract-- a transfer agreement-- I'm not sure it's a slam dunk lawsuit to get a Russian personal service/employment contract enforced by a US court.

An employer from a foreign country trying to prevent someone from working within the US would never win in court (it would be akin to enslavement), not according to US labour laws, which would be used in such a case.

Russian laws don't apply in US courts. The best Magnitogorsk could do would be to put pressure on the government for an extradition of Malkin, otherwise there's absolutely no chance of preventing him from playing in the NHL, despite their contracts.

 

[SuperUnknown]

Could backfire for the NHL. If NHL teams stop respecting Russian contracts, the RSL could do the same thing.

Wasn't this what happened with Semin?

 

[WalterSobchak]

Could backfire for the NHL. If NHL teams stop respecting Russian contracts, the RSL could do the same thing.

ummm, isn't that why Semin is playin in RSL...because they didn't respect Washington's contract...that was signed by Semin...and played for 1 season...but didn't want to go down to the AHL.

And what is the motivation for not going down to the AHL...contract $$$. The player gets paid less in the AHL.

 

[Sammy*]

An employer from a foreign country trying to prevent someone from working within the US would never win in court (it would be akin to enslavement), not according to US labour laws, which would be used in such a case.

Russian laws don't apply in US courts. The best Magnitogorsk could do would be to put pressure on the government for an extradition of Malkin, otherwise there's absolutely no chance of preventing him from playing in the NHL, despite their contracts.

You could not extradite a guy for allegedly failing to uphold his contract, however dubious the contract itself is or his reasons.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Could backfire for the NHL. If NHL teams stop respecting Russian contracts, the RSL could do the same thing.

They do! (Semin)

 

[WalterSobchak]

I do not mean any offence, but in my (uneducated on the matter) opinion, it appears individual clubs in the RSL are doing there best to profit from Russian born players, that they spend years and money training who leave their home country and those clubs to play in the NHL.

The RSL clubs don't have a leg to stand on as there is no international law which would require a company to renumerate a company in another country for signing their "workers" to a contract.

These clubs best chance is to get a paltry sum through an agreement between the RSL and the NHL, but the clubs want more than the NHL is offering. To put it in perspective the NHL doesn't have to give the RSL anything. It is the players choice to come play in the NHL. The NHL's contract with the RSL is just to smooth over the transition.

 

[KIRK]

Could backfire for the NHL. If NHL teams stop respecting Russian contracts, the RSL could do the same thing.

I'm sure Caps fans can tell you a story about how the RSL and the Russian courts "respected" the Caps contractual rights under the CBA and a US court ruling in the case of Alexander Semin.

 

[Bobby Orr's Knees]

I do not mean any offence, but in my (uneducated on the matter) opinion, it appears individual clubs in the RSL are doing there best to profit from Russian born players, that they spend years and money training who leave their home country and those clubs to play in the NHL.

What one man calls "profit" another calls "fair compensation"

 

[jekoh]

I do not mean any offence, but in my (uneducated on the matter) opinion, it appears individual clubs in the RSL are doing there best to profit from Russian born players, that they spend years and money training who leave their home country and those clubs to play in the NHL.

And ? What's wrong with that ? Why would anyone take offence ?

To put it in perspective the NHL doesn't have to give the RSL anything. It is the players choice to come play in the NHL.

It is Crosby's choice to play with Montreal.

 

[SuperUnknown]

You could not extradite a guy for allegedly failing to uphold his contract, however dubious the contract itself is or his reasons.

They could if there was a criminal warrant issued in Russia for Malkin. I don't think they could do that but who knows with Russia.

 

[Talentless Practise*]

Would it not be possible for Magnitogorsk to sue Malkin in a Russian court for breach of contract? No law can prevent the Pens from signing him but Malkin might have to pay up.


Why i think it is fair to ask for compensation in a case like this is that top European clubs are all professional organizations who try to build a competitive team in their own leagues. A player under contract is considered to be available to help them succeed in that.

A good example might be Jokerit of the Finnish SM-liiga this year. They operate with the biggest player payroll (about 3M$) and generally succeed quite well. Last summer, they lost Tim Thomas -the backbone of the team and the leagues best goalie, under contract- to Boston just days before the start of the league, along with projected no.1 center Valtteri Filppula and a few other important pieces of the team. The result? Horrible season, missed playoffs, low attendances and a financial disaster. And ofcourse, there was no compensation for Thomas who is North American.

Finnish clubs are miniscule compared to their Russian counterparts and the financial aspect is much smaller. To a Finnish team, the compensations for young Finnish players are easily large enough, but for the Russian teams they aren't. Thus, they didn't sign the transfer agreement.

What would it cost to buy out Oveckins contract from Washington? The compensation needs to be in that region IMO.

 

[WalterSobchak]

And ? What's wrong with that ? Why would anyone take offence ?

It is Crosby's choice to play with Montreal.

Well for the former, people can get touchy (offended) over strange things. I just wanted to make that known.

Crosby is free to play for Montreal...I am sure there are some Rec leagues there. If he wants to play in the NHL, Pittsburgh owns his rights. If Malkin wants to play in the NHY, Pittsburgh owns his rights. Crosby, Malkin, Semin, Iginla, Nash, etc all of them can play wherever they want. But if they want to play in the NHL, their rights are owned. If they want to play in a league that has an agreement with the NHL that won't let players play who have NHL contracts, they can't play there either. If any player wants to go play in Russia, that is their right because the NHL has no agreement to stop that.

It works both ways and I don't pity Washington in the Semin deal. They get what they draft.

 

[Paxton Fettel]

if there is no transfer agreement, the only way you can legally sign a Russian player under contract, is by buying out his contract. this is how it works in soccer, and European hockey leagues.

I know that North American fans don't like it, but this is the way it works and has always worked in Europe. so stop questionning this logic.

 

[WalterSobchak]

if there is no transfer agreement, the only way you can legally sign a Russian player under contract, is by buying out his contract. this is how it works in soccer, and European hockey leagues.

I know that North American fans don't like it, but this is the way it works and has always worked in Europe. so stop questionning this logic.

This isn't Soccer or a European hockey league. This is not a transfer between 2 Euro clubs, the player (of his own volition) wants to play in the NHL next year. There is no precident for compensation in this situation.

(Is there?)

 

[Paxton Fettel]

who needs a precedent? precedents exist only in non Civil law countries.

 

[jekoh]

Crosby is free to play for Montreal...I am sure there are some Rec leagues there. If he wants to play in the NHL, Pittsburgh owns his rights. If Malkin wants to play in the NHY, Pittsburgh owns his rights. Crosby, Malkin, Semin, Iginla, Nash, etc all of them can play wherever they want.

No, Crosby can't play with the Club de hockey canadien de Montréal.

Clearly other considerations take precedence over the player's choice, I don't know why you don't want to admit that.

 

[jekoh]

I know that North American fans don't like it, but this is the way it works and has always worked in Europe. so stop questionning this logic.

Not only in Europe, this is the way it works in every country outside NA, in every sport. Even the Major League Soccer has to pay transfer fees to foreign clubs I'm sure.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Malkin has one more year commitment, two option years after, and supposedly a handshake deal that he can leave now. This thread and all of the turns that it took is all interesting I suppose but pretty academic. It really is simple as far as Malkin is concerend. Russia signs onto the IIHF transfer agreement this summer or most likely Malkin delays coming over a year and his club gets nothing. I would love to see him next year, but face it, even with him my Pens are at least a year away. If I have to wait one extra year, add another top draft pick, and get Malkin tied to us another year in his prime because of the delay in his coming over, so be it. It is not my choice on how things turn out, but it would be no great tragedy either. In any event, fantasies about the Pens 'having' to trade him are ridiculous. As long as he wants to come, and everything that he says indicates as much, the worst case he is delayed a year and his club gets zip.

 

[Beesfan]

who needs a precedent? precedents exist only in non Civil law countries.

I think the point is that if he comes to America then the Russian law may not apply. I took an international law class last year, but unfortunately it did not cover this topic (more concerned with minor things, such as "war" and "human rights" leaving hockey transfer agreements out of the class entirely).

What I do know is that if he comes to the US, the decision of whether or not he can play will be made by a US court, not a Russian one. I think considering the Ovechkin case was dismissed so quickley that Malkin would probably be able to play too, even though the details in his case are harder to circumvent.

Malkin plays in the NHL next year, IMO, and his Russian team gets the standard rate or nothing. If the NHL starts paying a higher rate for Russian players, other European countries will balk.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Malkin on Crosby, Crosby on Malkin:

In an interview with Russian Hockey Digest posted online, Malkin seems excited to come to Pittsburgh and play with Sidney Crosby, the 2005 first-overall pick.

“The fact that the first pick of the NHL draft is Sidney Crosby didn’t surprise me. [It’s no accident] people call this Canadian ‘The second Gretzky’; his talent’s not raising any doubts,†he said.


Sidney Crosby
Crosby and Malkin played against each other in the 2005 World Junior Championships and will face each other at the upcoming World Championships.

“I saw him playing at several junior tournaments in Canada. What can I say? I assume the specialists and scouts didn’t exaggerate in this case: Crosby has a brilliant mind and great hockey potential,†Malkin said. “The more great masters would play in Pittsburgh, the better. Absolutely, I don’t consider this young Canadian as a competitor. Even backwards, I consider him as my potential helper.â€

Likewise, Crosby can’t wait for Malkin to come to Pittsburgh.

“We have a lot of young guys here who want to build something. With him, he’s a great player and he’d really help us,†Crosby said. “We want him to be a part of that, too. Hopefully, next season he comes over. He’s a guy who is really going to make a difference.â€

http://www.pittsburghpenguins.com/team/features/arts/1857.1.php