Prospect Info: Making the Big Club # Play The Kids

Grandrift145

Registered User
Jan 23, 2009
2,224
24
Uptop
at the beginning of the season players from the Marlies a chance to play in the NHL

guys like Frazer, Kostka and Hamilton

guys that will always be fringe NHLers at best

i think now is the time to see how coach Eakins has developed our higher upside prospects

i also want the spots vacated by UFAs Bozak, O'Byrne and MacArthur to be filled by Colborne, Ashton and Blacker

Colborne can play on the third line, with an improved Kadri and Grabo sharing top six duties

Ashton would be a better fit in our bottom 6 than MacArthur

and i think it is time for Blacker to make the jump to the NHL, maybe mid season

and i expect Holzer to make the team

i also never want to see Liles in a Leafs uniform again

My line-up for next year


Lupul-Kadri_Kessel
JVR-Grabo?_Kulimin
Ashton-Colborne-Frattin
Kamarov?-Mclement-Orr?
Broll?Scott?

Phaneuf-Franson
Gardiner-Blacker
Gunnersson -Holzer
Rielly? (depth Dman)

Reimer
Scrivens

i personally think this is the best thing the organization could do

i understand there is an argument for experience, but this organization has F***ed up too many times by signing washed up free agents and making bad trades

i really want to see this group grow together

what do you guys think?

# Play The Kids
 

showtime8

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
11,554
1,145
Toronto, ON
Play the kids when they aren't ready?

What's the sense in rushing them into a position when they aren't ready to take it?

Do you remember what happened to Nazem Kadri? Tons of skill and then moved him back and forth until everyone wanted him traded. Then they put him in the right position (centre) surrounded with talent and no expectations of him being #1.

So why would you put Colborne in a #3 role when he's not a shutdown guy? He's a scoring forward and should be played as so. We know Carlyle doesn't like the 3 scoring lines as much and likes to go with a shutdown guy.

To me, playing the kids is something along the lines of 1 player at a time to be put in the lineup.
 

The_Chosen_One

Registered User
Jul 4, 2006
6,285
27
Melbourne, Australia
I'd be interesting to see if Kadri plays on the first line or in a more sheltered role. Regardless, I think the top line has to include JVR, because we need a big guy that can work around the net.

JVR - C - Kessel
Lupul - C - W
Frattin - C - W
Komarov - McClement - Orr

It's obvious that Grabovski, Kadri and Colborne will be in the middle. I am not sure who'll take #1C, but it could be Grabovski, Kadri and maybe even Colborne.

Similarly, Frattin and Kulemin will be wingers on the top nine. Now if we're going to sign Clarkson, he'll be penciled as an RW. We could a line up Lupul - Kadri - Clarkson, while Kulemin plays on the shut down line with Kadri.

JVR - Grabovski - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Clarkson
Frattin - Colborne - Kulemin

It would be interesting if Colborne can be promoted up to the first line and replace Bozak. He's a pretty good playmaker and has a really heavy shot. Colborne and JVR would be able to create a lot of room for Kessel.

PS: I don't think Ashton is ready. The only prospect that may see some limited time would be Blacker and maybe D'Amigo as well.
 

hotpaws

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
21,484
6,062
I keep reading these type of threads like somehow it's only a matter of time before all our prospects become NHLers . Our kids aren't with us because they're still not good enough to play at this level not because we want to give them extra time to develop . A few may make the jump but most won't and will be forgotten as our more recent picks turn pro and take there spots with the Marlies .

Once you haven't made the big club 4-5 years out of your draft year the chances of you making it become slimmer as other younger prospects start pushing for your spot .

Out of the prospects you listed only JC has a chance to be anything more than a bottom end depth player but this may be his last year to earn a spot with us .
 

Joey Hoser

Registered User
Jan 8, 2008
14,232
4,143
Guelph
You don't leave 3 spaces open on your roster for prospects who are unproven to the degree that Blacker and Ashton are. What happens if they suck and you can't play them?

You give them the opportunity to take jobs, you don't just give it to them.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
86,912
11,862
Leafs Home Board

Mission accomplished.

"Play the Kids" is my middle name, and my decree for years perhaps decades. ;)

I also would love to see each season at least 1 or 2 kids brought in and developed further at the NHL level.

Joey Colborne would be the one most ready it appears to take that next step. He could be groomed much like Kadri was last season, on the 3rd line with sheltered minutes and beneficial opponent matchups.
 

JAMmer124

Independent Living
Aug 13, 2010
5,415
1
Welland, Ontario
Blacker is simply not ready yet. He needs at least another half to full season IMO.

Holzer....just no. We saw how that went this year.

Ashton has a shot.

Im all for bringing Colborne up as 3C if Bozak doesn't return or if we deal Grabo.

What I would like to see next season:

JvR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-Frattin
Kulemin-Colborne-Clarkson(signed as UFA, could swap with Frattin)
Komarov-McClement-Orr

Gunnarsson-Phaneuf
Gardiner-______(UFA, RH DFD)
Fraser-Franson

Reimer
(Veteran)

If it aint broke, dont fix it. Tweaks needed, but still a playoff club.
 

Grandrift145

Registered User
Jan 23, 2009
2,224
24
Uptop
for example, the Ottawa Senators had a surprising seasn last year

they didn't go out and sign veteran free agents and trade for experience

they stayed patient and stuck to their original plan

and now they know what they got
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
73,092
38,153
They've already been playing the kids. I don't expect that to change.
 

SeenSchenn2

Itchin' For Mitch
Jun 15, 2010
14,889
262
Thornhill, ON
:biglaugh:

Holzer is one of the worst players over the past couple years. I know, you think he can improve but it's unlikely; kid is terrible.

The rest is a mess, we'd be bottom 5. We're trying to get better.
 

Razz

Registered User
Jan 23, 2011
4,457
719
Mississauga
Aside from Colborne, I don't think anyone else is getting promoted next season in the forward position (at least not until mid-season).

I think Nonis is going for a Veteran forward in either Iginla or Clarson depending on availability.

On D, he's gotta do a trade I think due to a logjam. We can use a Veteran in the top 4 with size but I won't be heartbroken if we continue building the team from within. The Leafs have so many D men that it makes very little sense for them to look outside at this stage of the team development phase.

I'm starting to lose hope that we'll see Paul Ranger as a Leaf. I think he'd be the perfect rock back there that we need but I get the feeling he's not going to go to the NHL again.
 

Ricky Bobby

Registered User
Aug 31, 2008
8,456
312
Colborne and Rielly that have a good shot out of camp. Even Rielly might benefit more in his development from being held back a year more.

D'Amigo, Ashton, McKegg, Blacker can all get a few games here and there as injury call-ups. Kids need to play. If they play on the big club just to play shuffle between the press box and playing 4th line minute that doesn't help them develop. Forget about these kids for a another year or two then see where they're at.

2nd/3rd liners/bottom pairing dman most of the time don't start cracking the NHL till their mid 20's so they're is still hope they can become useful players down the road.
 

hotpaws

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
21,484
6,062
Colborne and Rielly that have a good shot out of camp. Even Rielly might benefit more in his development from being held back a year more.

D'Amigo, Ashton, McKegg, Blacker can all get a few games here and there as injury call-ups. Kids need to play. If they play on the big club just to play shuffle between the press box and playing 4th line minute that doesn't help them develop. Forget about these kids for a another year or two then see where they're at.

2nd/3rd liners/bottom pairing dman most of the time don't start cracking the NHL till their mid 20's so they're is still hope they can become useful players down the road.

Since when do most 2nd/3rd liners take until there mid 20's to crack the league ? Of course a few players especially if they were taken late in the draft might take that long but most crack the league at a much younger age .
 

Grandrift145

Registered User
Jan 23, 2009
2,224
24
Uptop
i would rather Blacker than Liles

i would rather Holzer than O Byrne

i would rather Colborne than resigning Bozak

i would rather Ashton than resigning MaCarthur
 

smitty10

Registered User
Aug 6, 2009
9,805
2,643
Toronto
i would rather Blacker than Liles

i would rather Holzer than O Byrne

i would rather Colborne than resigning Bozak

i would rather Ashton than resigning MaCarthur

This team needs to improve for next season. What you're suggesting is downgrading our NHL talent with B and C level prospects. Outside of the Holzer for O'Byrne move, which is depth movement, the rest of the moves that you've suggested just make this team worse.

What does Blacker bring that Liles doesn't?

What does Colborne do better than Bozak?

Why Ashton over Macarthur or a FA?

Nonis said this team needs to make moves over the summer. We're no longer in the rebuilding phase and need to play and acquire the BPA. Your "#playthekids" is no longer necessary. We have a playoff team and would like to keep it that way. Once these guys produce at the AHL level they'll see time in the NHL.
 

The CyNick

Freedom of Speech!
Sep 17, 2009
11,364
2,032
I don't think its smart to go into a season with unproven guys in key spots.

Colborne its a good example. if he proves he can play in the top nine, then it makes a guy like Grabo or Bozak expendable. at which point you trade one of them.

same with the D. if guys like Blacker or Holzer step up, then guys like O'Byrne or Liles are moveable.

but you can't leave spots open and assume kids will be able to step in. its not good management.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
86,912
11,862
Leafs Home Board
I don't think its smart to go into a season with unproven guys in key spots.

Colborne its a good example. if he proves he can play in the top nine, then it makes a guy like Grabo or Bozak expendable. at which point you trade one of them.

same with the D. if guys like Blacker or Holzer step up, then guys like O'Byrne or Liles are moveable.

but you can't leave spots open and assume kids will be able to step in. its not good management.

Bozak and O'Bryne are both pending UFAs and may not even be part of the equation here when camp opens, and as such neither are moveable unless re-signed first anyways.
 

Ricky Bobby

Registered User
Aug 31, 2008
8,456
312
Since when do most 2nd/3rd liners take until there mid 20's to crack the league ? Of course a few players especially if they were taken late in the draft might take that long but most crack the league at a much younger age .

Below is the age of the players in their rookie year:

Bozak 23
Grabo 24
CMac 22
Kunitz 25
Bickell 23
Frattin 24
Gunnar 22

There are lots more examples. The guys who become stars or good top 4/5 forward on a team normally make the NHL before 21. The guys who are forward 5 or below on the depth chart a lot of the time don't start cracking the NHL till they're at least 22 or 23.

Colborne is 23 and has been developing nicely because he gets all knids of minutes and should become at least a 3rd liner for us.

Ashton is 22, Blacker is 22, D'Amigo is 22 and none of them have yet to dominate the AHL. If they surprise in camp great but other they should only get games in the event of injuries with a better chance to crack the roster full time in 14-15.
 

hotpaws

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
21,484
6,062
Below is the age of the players in their rookie year:

Bozak 23
Grabo 24
CMac 22
Kunitz 25
Bickell 23
Frattin 24
Gunnar 22

There are lots more examples. The guys who become stars or good top 4/5 forward on a team normally make the NHL before 21. The guys who are forward 5 or below on the depth chart a lot of the time don't start cracking the NHL till they're at least 22 or 23.

Colborne is 23 and has been developing nicely because he gets all knids of minutes and should become at least a 3rd liner for us.

Ashton is 22, Blacker is 22, D'Amigo is 22 and none of them have yet to dominate the AHL. If they surprise in camp great but other they should only get games in the event of injuries with a better chance to crack the roster full time in 14-15.

22/23 isn't mid twenties .

My point was higher draft picks don't usually spend until there mid twenties on you farm team before they break into the league . You have to remember we can't just keep sending guys to the farm year after year without having to clear waivers and there's only so many spots on the farm for your prospects ( not to mention you're only allowed so many contacts ) .

Ashton/D'Amigo/Blacker/JC will either make the team in the next year or so or most of them will be out of the organization because there spots will be taken by guys like Biggs-Percy-Finn .
 

Ricky Bobby

Registered User
Aug 31, 2008
8,456
312
22/23 isn't mid twenties .

My point was higher draft picks don't usually spend until there mid twenties on you farm team before they break into the league . You have to remember we can't just keep sending guys to the farm year after year without having to clear waivers and there's only so many spots on the farm for your prospects ( not to mention you're only allowed so many contacts ) .

Ashton/D'Amigo/Blacker/JC will either make the team in the next year or so or most of them will be out of the organization because there spots will be taken by guys like Biggs-Percy-Finn .

Fair points.

Colborne is the most promising of them so you'll get a very good chance to make the team out of camp. If he doesn't he'll get called up and hopefully stick shortly after.

Ashton/D'Amigo/Blacker all need to take a big step forward in the next season or at most 2 seasons or their at risk of becoming a suspect instead of a prospect who bounces around from team to team or even goes over to Europe/KHL to find work.
 

The CyNick

Freedom of Speech!
Sep 17, 2009
11,364
2,032
Bozak and O'Bryne are both pending UFAs and may not even be part of the equation here when camp opens, and as such neither are moveable unless re-signed first anyways.

Obviously

I assumed most people would understand that you have to re-sign UFA's before considering moving them.
 

PuckMagi

Registered User
Apr 13, 2013
5,459
1,965
Toronto
[btw, i'm a leaf fan who lost the avatar bet]

I'd go with:

Lupul - Kadri - Kessel
JVR - Colborne - Frattin
Kulemin - Bozak - (Marlie Player)
Komorov - McClemment - Orr/McLaren

Line 1: Pure Skill
Line 2: Big line that likes to go to the net
Line 3: Shut Down
Line 4: Hitting line w/ McClemment to keep them in check.

Phaneuf - Gunner
Gardiner - Fransen
Fraser - (Marlie Player)

Ideally, if we could get a big #2 centre to take Colborne's spot, that would be good because we don't really know if Colborne is good enough to play as a #2 centre in the NHL at the moment. I just don't see us getting a centre that's better than Kadri (since I wanna keep both Gardiner and Rielly) ... but we might be able to get a big #2 centre for a reasonable price.

And if we could also get a #1 right handed defender to play with Phaneuf, then we could have Fraser and Gunner as a 3rd pairing which i think would be excellent. This should be our top priority in the off season.

This would mean re-signing bozak... and getting rid of MacA and Grabo. Though having MacA on that third line would be alright too i suppose.... though hopefully one of the Marlies look good enough to play this roll.

I just hope we get rid of Grabo. Make him play for the marlies if nothing else. He was useless during the regular season. And even though he made a fairly drastic improvment in the playoffs, he still only got 1 assist i think, no goals, and was a minus 10 or something. He put in a good effort... but he still wasn't nearly good enough. He's garbage IMO.

If we lose Bozak, that would suck, but McClemment could take his spot on the 3rd line and our 4th line would be really crappy but if they only play few minutes a game, hopefully they wont cost us too many games.
 

SnazzyNazzy

Registered User
Oct 20, 2012
646
0
Waterloo
Holzer....just no. We saw how that went this year.

What I would like to see next season:

JvR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-Frattin
Kulemin-Colborne-Clarkson(signed as UFA, could swap with Frattin)
Komarov-McClement-Orr

Gunnarsson-Phaneuf
Gardiner-______(UFA, RH DFD)
Fraser-Franson

Reimer
(Veteran)

If it aint broke, dont fix it. Tweaks needed, but still a playoff club.

This 100%
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->