Post-Game Talk: Major League: Bachman to the Minors ... 2-1 SO/L

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guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
32,644
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Size isn't everything and you know that. There have been a ton of effective starters in this league under 6 feet. I'm not saying Bachman is our saving grace but his size shouldn't be used to dismiss him as a potentially capable starter.

He is a small goalie and his history suggests that he isnt good enough to be a capable starter. He has had 1 season (of 20+ games) in the AHL with a SV% over .920. At 175 lbs he doesn't have the bulk to endure the physical demands of being a starter in the NHL.
It would be a great story to be sure but its very unlikely.

He is the same size as Tim Thomas and N. Backstrom. It isn't like he is gary coleman out there trying to become a goalie.

Bachman is 5'10" tall but he is 20-25 lbs lighter than both Thomas and Backstrom.

In this NHL era he is a little goalie. He is 10 lbs lighter than the smallest goalie in the League...Halak.
 
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guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
32,644
12,154
While I agree, I agree. :D

haha

But that said MacT did more in one offseason than Tambo did in all of them. We have attained more helpful players that are performing reasonably well than Tambo accrued his whole tenure here.
With the goaltending as well MacT went fishing in that pond too as we know but all he caught was LaBarbera and Bachman. Although Bachman is looking pretty good. For all we know Bachman was MacT's ace in hole.

In anycase the did recruit two players in acknowledging an obvious need. But again a need his predecessor REFUSED to acknowledge.

Overall I give Mact some credit. Climbing out of this abyss wasn't going to be at all easy as we know.

What has surprised me somewhat is how good the recruits have been. With the exception of LaBarbera and maybe Ference they're better then expected. Unfortunately we've had the notable injuries and some subpar performances from incumbents.

I also think MacT has done a good job...with some things at least.

He has already done something in 6 months that Tambo wasn't able to do in 4+ years...acquire well coached players that know what it takes to win. Perron and Gordon have been great additions to this team. Not enough of a culture change though. I harken back to the early days of this rebuild when I cautioned that the losing culture of continuously finishing in the lottery would be hard to change.
I was almost run off the board for maintaining that stance.
I would have rather been wrong about that because thats a large part of what MacT has to change and its tough as hell to do it.

That said he didnt do a good enough job with the goaltending IMO. Considering the doubt that existed with Dubnyk, MacT had to make sure that the backup was solid. He dropped the ball.

He might get lucky with Bachman though...lets hope so.


Really you have to judge MacT on the results and the results so far have been about as bad as anyone might have guessed. This team is in serious danger of having their season done as far as the playoffs are concerned by November.

Thats worse than any team Tambo put together which is really saying something.

MacT took a major risk firing a great special teams coach that the team was familiarizing itself with and hiring a wet behind the ears coach in Eakins to replace him. That was a ballsy move IMO.
So far its backfired and sans an amazing run it will cost the team a chance at the playoffs. Being out of the playoffs in November is simply not good enough....as a matter of fact its a backward step.

I think MacT is a smart man and will be a good GM but as unfair as it is to judge him after such a short amount of time the team has been a failure so far and thats all on MacT.

MacT needs the hockey equivalent a planetary alignment to salvage this catastrophically bad start.
 
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tiger_80

Registered User
Apr 11, 2007
8,640
1,500
I also think MacT has done a good job...for the most part at least.

He has already done something in 6 months that Tambo wasn't able to do in 4+ years...acquire well coached players that know what it takes to win. Perron and Gordon have been great additions to this team. Not enough of a culture change though. I harken back to the early days of this rebuild when I cautioned that the losing culture of continuously finishing in the lottery would be hard to change.
I was almost run off the board for maintaining that stance.
I would have rather been wrong about that because thats a large part of what MacT has to change and its tough as hell to do it.

That said he didnt do a good enough job with the goaltending IMO. Considering the doubt that existed with Dubnyk, MacT had to make sure that the backup was solid. He dropped the ball.

He might get lucky with Bachman though...lets hope so.


Really you have to judge MacT on the results and the results have been about as bad as anyone might have guessed. This team is in serious danger of having their season done as far as the playoffs are concerned by November.

Thats worse than any team Tambo put together which is really saying something.

MacT took a major risk firing a great special teams coach that the team was familiarizing itself with and hired a wet behind the ears coach to replace him.
So far its backfired and sans an amazing run it will cost the team a chance at the playoffs. Being out of the playoffs in November is simply not good enough....as a matter of fact its a backward step.

Things can change but MacT gets a fail so far.

I think the biggest mistake of the management made was intentionally tanking after 2010. After they drafted Hall, they should have made the best effort to bring in capable veteran players. They likely would have ended up with top 5-top 10 picks in 2011 through 2013, but maybe the team would be in better shape going forward with better veterans and less lopsided composition of the young core (Something like Hall, Gagner, Eberle, Scheifele, Trouba, Nurse would not be a bad young core to build around).
 

guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
32,644
12,154
I think the biggest mistake of the management made was intentionally tanking after 2010. After they drafted Hall, they should have made the best effort to bring in capable veteran players. They likely would have ended up with top 5-top 10 picks in 2011 through 2013, but maybe the team would be in better shape going forward with better veterans and less lopsided composition of the young core (Something like Hall, Gagner, Eberle, Scheifele, Trouba, Nurse would not be a bad young core to build around).

I am not so sure it was intentional.
Tambo never demonstrated anything that would lend itself to thinking he was anything other than very poor at evaluating team needs and/or having the balls to make the necessary moves.

Thats why I never had faith in the 'rebuild'.
Not nearly enough evidence to convince me that the team really knew what it was doing.
 

SchultzSquared*

Guest
That said he didnt do a good enough job with the goaltending IMO. Considering the doubt that existed with Dubnyk, MacT had to make sure that the backup was solid. He dropped the ball.

He did but I think his plan was to let Dubs not have safety net... and as a "outsider" looking in it was sensible to do... here you had a young monster guy in goal who had numbers onpar with best in the league... he looked able to be a 60 game guy in the top half of NHL goalies

In that sense I think his mind was in the right place... Labarbs being a NHL vet should not be buyout material month into the season... I do not know if any one could have predicted he would be so bad... really you had to think that 60 games of Dubnyk and 22 split in Labarbera Bachman was doable... you almost had to as MacT because as you say there was and is so much to fix... he had to give his young starter benefit of the doubt

Now we are seeing that was the wrong call for sure... Dubnyk cannot stop a beach ball and the boulder from Indiana Jones would go by Labarbs... as you say maybe he get lucky with Bachman... but this just goes to the top of the fix list... what he does to fix it is what we need to judge him on

Really you have to judge MacT on the results and the results so far have been about as bad as anyone might have guessed. This team is in serious danger of having their season done as far as the playoffs are concerned by November.

Thats worse than any team Tambo put together which is really saying something.

I am encouraged by what we are seeing... it is for me not the people but the plan that is hurting us onice... which I will get to... but when you think of a cast of 1st overall kids and then good vets (and MacT has no Belangers yet Perron Belov Gordon are gold) this SHOULD be good enough group to win... and sure enough bad habits are being kicked out of them

MacT took a major risk firing a great special teams coach that the team was familiarizing itself with and hiring a wet behind the ears coach in Eakins to replace him. That was a ballsy move IMO.
So far its backfired and sans an amazing run it will cost the team a chance at the playoffs. Being out of the playoffs in November is simply not good enough....as a matter of fact its a backward step.

This where we agree for sure... Eakins has not had traction with those guys... no one can know why totally but he is an AHL coach right now behind NHL bench... not a night goes by when he is not out coached... do I think Krueger was the answer no... but Eakins is definitely not it... he would need to do amazing things here to save the year... his personnel would need to not only figure out the defense scheme but become top flight at it... even then with Dubs ******** the bed three of four starts we are not in a good place any way

I think MacT is a smart man and will be a good GM but as unfair as it is to judge him after such a short amount of time the team has been a failure so far and thats all on MacT.

After all the losing I think 20th-201st in the league is good start... I think we can get there... Dubnyk is slow starter and we must just ride BAchman until the lightning is all gone from the bottle... that and Gags Hall being back from injury should be just enough... is it playoffs no... is it improvement yes

Really when you look at all MacT had to fix that he has given us a) tons of forwards in bottom six to slot in b) defense depth c) GOOD FA signings I think he is almost a magician for what he started with... we live or die by him... it may take a year but I am sure he is the right guy... he can only prove that or disprove that by fixing the issues today (goal, Eakins, lack of size)
 

ZJuice

pickle juice connoisseur
May 17, 2010
10,465
8,966
Edmonton
He is a small goalie and his history suggests that he isnt good enough to be a capable starter. He has had 1 season (of 20+ games) in the AHL with a SV% over .920. At 175 lbs he doesn't have the bulk to endure the physical demands of being a starter in the NHL.
It would be a great story to be sure but its very unlikely.



Bachman is 5'10" tall but he is 20-25 lbs lighter than both Thomas and Backstrom.

In this NHL era he is a little goalie. He is 10 lbs lighter than the smallest goalie in the League...Halak.
Doesn't have the bulk to endure the physical demands?

He is a goalie not a lumberjack.
 

thinlizzy

Registered User
Mar 9, 2013
440
0
Typical, guy stands on his head for a record for a starter on shots and still nit pick , nit pick. If we are going to do that DD and JL are much better proven targets to shoot the darts at.
 

Nic

Registered User
Apr 30, 2004
354
0
He is the same size as Tim Thomas and N. Backstrom. It isn't like he is gary coleman out there trying to become a goalie.

I'm going to assume that Gary Coleman to the Oilers is already a twitter rumor :)
 

Replacement*

Checked out
Apr 15, 2005
48,856
2
Hiking
I also think MacT has done a good job...with some things at least.

He has already done something in 6 months that Tambo wasn't able to do in 4+ years...acquire well coached players that know what it takes to win. Perron and Gordon have been great additions to this team. Not enough of a culture change though. I harken back to the early days of this rebuild when I cautioned that the losing culture of continuously finishing in the lottery would be hard to change.
I was almost run off the board for maintaining that stance.
I would have rather been wrong about that because thats a large part of what MacT has to change and its tough as hell to do it.

That said he didnt do a good enough job with the goaltending IMO. Considering the doubt that existed with Dubnyk, MacT had to make sure that the backup was solid. He dropped the ball.

He might get lucky with Bachman though...lets hope so.


Really you have to judge MacT on the results and the results so far have been about as bad as anyone might have guessed. This team is in serious danger of having their season done as far as the playoffs are concerned by November.

Thats worse than any team Tambo put together which is really saying something.

MacT took a major risk firing a great special teams coach that the team was familiarizing itself with and hiring a wet behind the ears coach in Eakins to replace him. That was a ballsy move IMO.
So far its backfired and sans an amazing run it will cost the team a chance at the playoffs. Being out of the playoffs in November is simply not good enough....as a matter of fact its a backward step.

I think MacT is a smart man and will be a good GM but as unfair as it is to judge him after such a short amount of time the team has been a failure so far and thats all on MacT.

MacT needs the hockey equivalent a planetary alignment to salvage this catastrophically bad start.

Good points. As you know I wasn't a fan of the latest coaching transition and was livid that MacT decided to move in that direction. To me that was unneccessary, lost some credibility, and I think he just got caught up in shopping and seduced by Eakins words.

From the start I recognized Eakins as a talker. But could he coach? Jury still out on that one.

I shouldn't be surprised that the team once again came home from a shopping trip with something other than what they intended on buying. Indeed thats the chaos endemic in this org that keeps the rebuild happening. They like the rebuild.

What better thing in a youth demographic market than to have new young players every year, new picks, and an annual change in many personnel. Its the best bit of merchandising they could do to make new name jerseys fly off shelves. Some people are recognizing the gig.
 

hawks889

Registered User
Jul 6, 2013
323
3
Edmonton, Alberta,
Yeah hopefully he gets a few more chances, i assume he is in net tonight, doesnt matter if he is smaller, as long as he stops the puck, Dubynk is a giant, and a lot of fans dont think he can get the job done,
 

Expatriate

Registered User
Aug 3, 2007
850
31
Saint John
What does it matter how big the goalie is as long as he can get the job done. I wouldn't care if we put Mighty Mouse in net if he could have a > .9 SV%
 

dustrock

Too Legit To Quit
Sep 22, 2008
8,360
981
What better thing in a youth demographic market than to have new young players every year, new picks, and an annual change in many personnel. Its the best bit of merchandising they could do to make new name jerseys fly off shelves. Some people are recognizing the gig.

This is an interesting take. As a NBA and (shudder) Knicks fan, it reminds of the Knicks organziation - simply too big to fail, no matter how many idiotic player transactions, management hires and fires (Isaiah Thomas just being the most hilarious example thereof), dumb drafts, scandals, no playoffs/early playoff flameouts - NYK is the most valuable organization in the league, even over the Lakers. They'll always sell out, they'll always have celebrity fans, and in the end, that seems more important to the owner James Dolan.

Really the Knicks need to shed excess salary and get in some complementary players but it's just such a continual drama there. Now they've got JR Smith's brother a contract because Carmelo Anthony can opt out after this season and they want to keep him happy - y'know, rather than being focused on actually winning.

So TL;DR: the Oilers are a "professional" sports organization that is simply Too Big To Fail, and that's the problem.
 

Neilio

Navi-X, Google it
Jul 7, 2007
1,173
0
Calgary
He is a small goalie and his history suggests that he isnt good enough to be a capable starter. He has had 1 season (of 20+ games) in the AHL with a SV% over .920. At 175 lbs he doesn't have the bulk to endure the physical demands of being a starter in the NHL.
It would be a great story to be sure but its very unlikely.

Bachman is 5'10" tall but he is 20-25 lbs lighter than both Thomas and Backstrom.

In this NHL era he is a little goalie. He is 10 lbs lighter than the smallest goalie in the League...Halak.

I think history suggests that the smaller guys usually became the goalies. Its only recently that huge guys have started to become net-minders. Until modern training techniques became common, big guys were too often gangly and uncoordinated at a young age to compete in that position. But if they are trained properly, they can, and they cover more of the net. In the era of the big pads, and oversize equipment, having a 6'6 guy with pads up to his waist is an advantage. Being able to kneel down and still cover the top shelf is an advantage. With some equipment regulation changes, like we just saw at the beginning of the season, there are a number of guys struggling.

Regardless, I don't think that height and weight are as big a deal as you make it out to be. All things being equal, you'd like to have the most talented goalie with good size. Failing that, you take the most talented goalie. If he can stop the puck, that's really the only concern. He's not out there banging bodies in the corners. He needs speed, reflexes, technique and competitiveness.

Weight in the form of muscle bulk is not really an advantage as a goaltender. Carrying around unnecessary weight will slow you down and also, all that muscle needs more energy, and doesn't improve endurance. You don't see many 6'5 230 lb marathon runners. The 60 game, 60 minutes a night load of a #1 Goalie is more of a marathon than the game of a regular skater.

You see that Dubnyk is 6'6 and 210 lbs, and think that you need to be that weight to compete. But its relative. He is 2.69 lbs per inch of height.
Bachman is 5'10 and 175, which is 2.5 lbs per inch of height.
Ryan Miller is 6'2 and 175, which is 2.36 lbs per inch of height.
Jhonas Enroth is 5'10 and 166 which is 2.37 lbs per inch of height.

Really the only question is whether the guy can stop the puck. His height and weight are reasonable.
 

Pressure

Real Talk
Aug 11, 2005
2,366
42
Edmonton
Are you guys seriously arguing and debating why a goalie won't have success in the NHL based on his size and weight????????

I don't care how big, tall or how much the guy weighs, if he makes saves and does it on a daily basis he's a good goalie, I'm happy with it.

Who cares if he isn't "big" enough. GUYMEZ mentions he won't be able to handle the daily grinds of being in the NHL because he's not 6'0 and blah blah pounds...really????? :shakehead

This is a goalie, not an MMA fighter who is a lightweight in the heavy weight division.

Bachman came in, did his job and that warrants other starts.
 

s7ark

RIP
Jul 3, 2003
27,579
174
New GDT is up, so I am closing this. If you all would like to keep discussing whether Bachman can be an effective NHLer, there is a good thread for that here.
 
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