Post-Game Talk: Major Leadership, Character, Coaching issues in Calgary

[Anglesmith]

For what it's worth, I don't think Brian Elliott was brought in to be a stop gap. He's still only 32, and had put up several years of very good numbers. The Flames were acquiring him to be their starter and earn an extension.

 

[Dack]

For what it's worth, I don't think Brian Elliott was brought in to be a stop gap. He's still only 32, and had put up several years of very good numbers. The Flames were acquiring him to be their starter and earn an extension.

That's why I put good in front of it.

Stop gap eliminates Smith
Good eliminates Elliot

Wasn't a terrible bet but he kind of imploded and a few of the guys picked in that range (Debrincat and Kyrou) look good and fit a big need.

 

[Anglesmith]

That's why I put good in front of it.

Stop gap eliminates Smith
Good eliminates Elliot

Wasn't a terrible bet but he kind of imploded and a few of the guys picked in that range (Debrincat and Kyrou) look good and fit a big need.

Hindsight 20/20, of course. At the time, for the price we paid, I think it was a pretty good move. And the huge upside compared to what Carolina did is that they didn't throw him an albatross contract right away.

 

[Mr Snrub]

That's why I put good in front of it.

Stop gap eliminates Smith
Good eliminates Elliot

Wasn't a terrible bet but he kind of imploded and a few of the guys picked in that range (Debrincat and Kyrou) look good and fit a big need.

Right, but there was no way of knowing at the time. He looked like a great bet to step up and be very good

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Elliott had a similar season this year to what he had last year. Some very good highs and some fairly large lows. Hindsight, we made the right call to move on.

 

[Mobiandi]

I liked Elliott a lot. Sucked he fell apart in the playoffs but I guess that led us to Smith who is a superior goalie overall

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I liked Elliott a lot. Sucked he fell apart in the playoffs but I guess that led us to Smith who is a superior goalie overall

I 100% feel like Smith is a more top end goalie, however he’s prone to injury and his numbers this year won’t be much different from Elliott’s last. The key is that we need a competent backup so Smith won’t get hurt.

 

[Calculon]

Rittich's a fine backup. Smith is old and injury prone and the best backup won't change that.

So the issue is whether you can trust Rittich to handle a stretch as the starter. He wasn't capable of that this year but it's entirely possible the experience makes him better.

But I wouldn't be surprised if the Flames trade Rittich and sign a more experienced 1B backup like Raanta.

 

[DFF]

Elliott had a similar season this year to what he had last year. Some very good highs and some fairly large lows. Hindsight, we made the right call to move on.

Elliott shit the bed in the playoff last year....Smith just did it a little earlier and he had plenty of company so his crime was not so bad visually

The Flames under GG ran out of gas two years in a row....

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Rittich's a fine backup. Smith is old and injury prone and the best backup won't change that.

So the issue is whether you can trust Rittich to handle a stretch as the starter. He wasn't capable of that this year but it's entirely possible the experience makes him better.

But I wouldn't be surprised if the Flames trade Rittich and sign a more experienced 1B backup like Raanta.

This is definitely the route they should go.

 

[Fig]

What? Two of the players you listed are goalies.

As Dack mentioned, I meant higher end goalie options. I liked Elliott, but we needed an up and comer to platoon with him IMO. If we had poured more picks into prying someone higher end, things are totally different.

But as Anglesmith mentioned, things are 20/20. We didn't want to use the picks for flexibility, then suddenly, even with picks, there's no options, which IMO it's why we ended up with Hamonic and Smith. I think Elliott was a clever pick up. I would not have minded Elliott to platoon with Smith which IMO would have been better than Smith + Lack, but I think there was an influence of sorts that kept Elliott from returning. Smith/Elliott probably is stable enough to take us to ploffs vs the games we bled with Lack, Gilles and Rittich in net. But then we're still sand bagging the kids and no long term options.

Weirdly enough, even with the expansion draft, it seems that many goalies rumored to be available were actually not available, all the currency in the world and no available pieces to acquire. We were literally staring at Smith who by many accounts were all plan C or so. Pieces like Grubauer, Fleury etc. actually ended up as currency or bluffs in the expansion draft. Darling, Pickard etc. seemed like pieces that were out of reach the entire time due to (my guess) internal mandate to move certain goalies out of conference. Bishop fell through due to rumored ownership/King veto. Arizona paid a high price for Raanta. Higher than we'd likely have been comfortable paying.

My theory literally is that we had Hamonic lined up for a while but Treliving wanted to use the picks for a goalie. However, no goalie panned out so Treliving attempted to do Smith + Hamonic as an aggregate improvement instead of the higher end goalies he was hoping to target. I think it's plausible Treliving made that Hamonic trade with an exit clause in mind for a dman with value... but that's just me thinking weird things. Dougie to 1st line RW is such a plan, trading Dougie/Brodie may have been another.

OT:
Exasperated ideas wise, what happens if we subtract Dougie from the D core and put him on 1st RW as a forward rover? We know he had relatively good chemistry with JG in the same vein as Wideman...


JG - Mony - Hamilton
3M
Bennett - Janko - Brouwer
Ferland - Shore - Lazar
Stajan/Hathaway?

Gio - Hamonic
Stone - Brodie
Kulak - Andersson
TSpoon?

Smith
Rittich

Can't be worse than much of the knee jerk reactions I've seen so far...

And if I'm targeting a buy low candidate goalie, I might consider seeing if Carolina is looking to trade again, and see if we can nab Darling as a project a la Kanzig. Darling ain't amazing, but with mentor ship from Smith, he should be theoretically better than the Lack/Gilles/Rittich combo. I'd assume Treliving would probably involve one of Rittich or Gilles in such a trade. I am hugely assuming that he's capable of playing at least a decent 1B/backup option. Carolina may even retain again like they did on Lack if we involve some low picks or some excess tweener prospects with one of Gilles or Rittich.

I just realized that there's been a few roster crossovers between the two clubs in recent years. Nakladal, Jooris, Kanzig... Maybe we could make the deals a little bigger? Any idea if Carolina is open to moving Darling, and what we'd have to add to Darling to get Carolina to salary retain?

 

[Fig]

Elliott had a similar season this year to what he had last year. Some very good highs and some fairly large lows. Hindsight, we made the right call to move on.

Except if we had kept Elliott and taken on Smith... I think we could have made playoffs. I really think Elliott could be relied upon far more than Rittich and Gilles when Smith was injured. We burned a ton of games with the kids and by the time it got near the end, it really didn't seem like the team felt they could rely on the kids. Elliott has major flaws, but you know what you're going to get. We have no idea what we're going to get with Gilles and Rittich... though the extended look on Rittich has seemed to make him more predictable. I'm sure Elliott easily could have beat their combined 11 wins on 33GP. Stupid comment perhaps... but I think goal tending actually sank us again this season.

But... I think throwing Gilles and Rittich to the wolves is a good part of their development. They both could take that experience and suddenly blossom next season into NHL calibre goalies for all we know. But we don't. It's a crap shoot.

Asking those two to go to Stockton and dominate next year though isn't a bad plan. If we go somewhere along that route, other than Darling, I might want to look at Lehner. Two crazy guys in the net might not be a bad thing. Both Smith and Lehner should be of the types to allow Gilles or Rittich back up on occasion next season.

Caveat, Lehner on a contract that's bury friendly.


I was thinking about Mrazek... but media is making him out to be a little bit of a cancerous attitude kid... so I don't know. Lehners attitude IMO is similar to Smiths on occasion... but TBH, I haven't really paid attention to him.

 

[Deen]

I think that it is blatantly obvious our problem is a combination of coaching, size, and top end talent. Any way you slice it, I feel we are deficient on all fronts.

 

[Rangediddy]

I think that it is blatantly obvious our problem is a combination of coaching, size, and top end talent. Any way you slice it, I feel we are deficient on all fronts.

I think Foo proved last night we don't need size to be impactful. The fight for your life mentality is gone from this team. Think about how many games we would have lost if guys like Ferland played with the same energy and determination Ferly did in the Canucks playoff series. Not many. Yes Ferly is a big boy, but Lomberg plays that way too. Those energy guys aren't expected to score, but to wear down the other team. We had a bottom 6 that had no problem not scoring, but they didn't accomplish anything else either.

 

[Deen]

I think Foo proved last night we don't need size to be impactful. The fight for your life mentality is gone from this team. Think about how many games we would have lost if guys like Ferland played with the same energy and determination Ferly did in the Canucks playoff series. Not many. Yes Ferly is a big boy, but Lomberg plays that way too. Those energy guys aren't expected to score, but to wear down the other team. We had a bottom 6 that had no problem not scoring, but they didn't accomplish anything else either.

If you watched the San Jose game... They dominated us. Big dudes or big hearts.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

“There’s an emotional level you have to get to to assist you in winning, and we have to look into that,” said a physically drained Treliving, who said it feels like he hasn’t slept in six months.

“Are we emotionally invested enough? We’re missing something.

“I think we’ve got to find a way to be more emotionally engaged. We’ve got to be a harder team to play against.

“That can mean a lot of different things, but we’ve got to define the identity of our team.”

“I know it has become a story, but I don’t question our character,” said Treliving.

FRANCIS: Treliving breaks silence with emotional questions

 

[Fig]

FRANCIS: Treliving breaks silence with emotional questions

That word again... Identity. We had it under Hartley. We lost it under Gully. I wonder if we find an identity under Gully, or go with a different coach to help us develop a new one.

 

[Razzdazzle1]

That word again... Identity. We had it under Hartley. We lost it under Gully. I wonder if we find an identity under Gully, or go with a different coach to help us develop a new one.

The identity GG and Management has built is passive aggressive, weak and fold under pressure.

We saw it in the playoffs last year, when someone cheap shots Gaudreau, or runs the Goalie, and now at the end of this season.

This is the team culture. Nobody steps up. Even Management during this end of season tire fire.. Nobody stepping up. No accountability.

 

[Body Checker]

Ferland is a guy that regressed from a physical asset to a lower end scoring winger. Obviously he can't play like he did in the playoffs against Vancouver or he'd constantly be on the IR. However his physical play became almost non-existent this season once there was the belief he was a 1st line RW with Johnny and Mony. I think best thing for him would be 3rd line minutes with Backlund and Frolik.

 

[Lunatik]

Ferland is a guy that regressed from a physical asset to a lower end scoring winger. Obviously he can't play like he did in the playoffs against Vancouver or he'd constantly be on the IR. However his physical play became almost non-existent this season once there was the belief he was a 1st line RW with Johnny and Mony. I think best thing for him would be 3rd line minutes with Backlund and Frolik.

You don't want Ferland on a line with the line that draws the toughest competition, he's not one that seem to go the extra mile in the defensive zone.

 

[Calculon]

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

 

[Mr Snrub]

Well, time to get Sutter. Or Trotz.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Well, time to get Sutter. Or Trotz.

Is Korn coming with Trotz? Otherwise no thanks to him.

 

[Fig]

Ferland is a guy that regressed from a physical asset to a lower end scoring winger. Obviously he can't play like he did in the playoffs against Vancouver or he'd constantly be on the IR. However his physical play became almost non-existent this season once there was the belief he was a 1st line RW with Johnny and Mony. I think best thing for him would be 3rd line minutes with Backlund and Frolik.

Shades of Glencross IMO.