They may get more practice time due to a longer season, but a lot of guys, especially goalies, that take the college route like the fact that the games are only on weekends as it allows them to work on their game more and try out new things during a full week of practice. It also allows them to fit in a full week of weight training before games are played.
Major Junior vs. College
- Thread starter tisting9
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They may get more practice time due to a longer season, but a lot of guys, especially goalies, that take the college route like the fact that the games are only on weekends as it allows them to work on their game more and try out new things during a full week of practice. It also allows them to fit in a full week of weight training before games are played.
He just told you that CHL teams practise as often as NCAA teams...so goalies in the CHL can try out "new things" as well.
The whole practise thing is just a leg some NCAA coaches/recruiters try and stand on when saying why playing fewer games is better.
CHL Players are on the ice 6 days of the week from August until May (if they make the Mem cup). For teams that miss playoffs they are still on the ice until late March.
I haven't heard it from coaches or recruiters, I've heard it from players, most of them Canadian so they grew up watching the CHL and they like the NCAA system better for the exact reasons I just stated.
Like I said, they get more practice time because the season is longer, but they also have games in there to break it up. When you are playing games roughly every third day, it does make it harder to impliment new things as players.
With the NCAA, you get 6 days in between games from week to week. And most SCSU practices I saw were about 90 minutes every day. 4-6 days a week, 90 minutes a day, a lot can be accomplished.
Alpine
Registered User
Don't you think that this argument is like arguing...Which is better:
Canadian responsible (cabinet members have to sit in the house) parliamentary government or American executive branch, congessional gov't.
Kinda depends on what our history is and what we are used too? Don't it!
Canadian responsible (cabinet members have to sit in the house) parliamentary government or American executive branch, congessional gov't.
Kinda depends on what our history is and what we are used too? Don't it!
Does this sort of thing happen in Major Junior or is it pretty much restricted to the college game?
NORTH LOGAN, Utah -- A University of Southern California hockey goalie put on a show, but it had nothing to do with stopping shots.
Mickey Meyer rode his stick like a horse, dropped his bulky pants, mooned the crowd and slapped his buttocks during a game against BYU, police said.
He was ejected and ticketed for lewdness, a misdemeanor, after an officer who was working security at the rink said he witnessed the scene Saturday.
"I had my fill of these refs," Meyer said on an Internet broadcast of the game, according to The Herald-Journal of Logan.
It will be up to prosecutors whether to pursue a case against him.
"This is a small town," North Park police Sgt. John Italasano said. "This was a college team playing and hockey's a wild game. Sometimes things get out of hand."
Meyer's antics occurred while play was stopped and referees were trying to sort out penalties in the third period at Eccles Ice Center.
The junior from Clinton, N.Y., was "riding his hockey stick like a horse and slapping his butt," North Park Officer Mike Stauffer said in a report.
After pulling down his pants, Meyer slapped his bare bottom several times, Stauffer said.
Rink manager Floyd Naegle was unhappy.
"We don't treat this as a funny incident," he said Tuesday. "We're a family oriented business. It's a one-time incident and we try to do what we can to protect ourselves."
The Trojans lost the game, 6-4. USC coach Mark Wilbur did not immediately return a phone call or e-mail seeking comment Tuesday.
Prosecutor Scott Wyatt laughed when told about the incident Tuesday at the state Capitol, where he is a member of the Utah House. He declined to say whether he would press charges. The maximum penalty is six months in jail.
"Well, that's my call, but I haven't seen anything" from police, Wyatt said.
NORTH LOGAN, Utah -- A University of Southern California hockey goalie put on a show, but it had nothing to do with stopping shots.
Mickey Meyer rode his stick like a horse, dropped his bulky pants, mooned the crowd and slapped his buttocks during a game against BYU, police said.
He was ejected and ticketed for lewdness, a misdemeanor, after an officer who was working security at the rink said he witnessed the scene Saturday.
"I had my fill of these refs," Meyer said on an Internet broadcast of the game, according to The Herald-Journal of Logan.
It will be up to prosecutors whether to pursue a case against him.
"This is a small town," North Park police Sgt. John Italasano said. "This was a college team playing and hockey's a wild game. Sometimes things get out of hand."
Meyer's antics occurred while play was stopped and referees were trying to sort out penalties in the third period at Eccles Ice Center.
The junior from Clinton, N.Y., was "riding his hockey stick like a horse and slapping his butt," North Park Officer Mike Stauffer said in a report.
After pulling down his pants, Meyer slapped his bare bottom several times, Stauffer said.
Rink manager Floyd Naegle was unhappy.
"We don't treat this as a funny incident," he said Tuesday. "We're a family oriented business. It's a one-time incident and we try to do what we can to protect ourselves."
The Trojans lost the game, 6-4. USC coach Mark Wilbur did not immediately return a phone call or e-mail seeking comment Tuesday.
Prosecutor Scott Wyatt laughed when told about the incident Tuesday at the state Capitol, where he is a member of the Utah House. He declined to say whether he would press charges. The maximum penalty is six months in jail.
"Well, that's my call, but I haven't seen anything" from police, Wyatt said.
Those were club teams which is close to a beer league game then D-1, so save the finger pointing.
It would be like us bring up Graham James or Frost and trying to characterize it as indicative of Major Junior.
I think youre missing the point of what I said.
CHL teams practise AS MUCH as NCAA teams. So when people are asked why do NCAA teams have so few games, people usually say because there is a lot of practise, and while that is true, the CHL practises as much.
CHL teams have 1 off day a week...similar to NCAA teams...So CHL teams have about 4 full practises a week, NCAA about 5...BUT the CHL season is way longer...so its not like NCAA players are getting substantially more practise time than CHL players.
Oilers Chick
Registered User
NCAA players are also student-athletes, which absolutely astonishes me by how often people here forget and/or choose to ignore that fact. Depending upon how each player sets up their academic schedules (and what school they attend has a lot to do with that), some have very light class loads while others have very heavy loads. Many players even take night classes so as to better fit their hockey schedules. As far as I can tell, the only CHL players who are also student-athletes are the ones still in high school.
As for practices times being no more than an hour is completely wrong! Every coach, player and team connected person that I've ever spoken to (and there have been many) ALL say that practices run anywhere from 1-2 hours. If practices are cut short it is because of circumstances such as time set aside to study game tape of the upcoming opponent(s), but that is the exception not the rule. That is in addition to whatever time players spend in the weight room and working on one-on-one drills with members of the coaching staff.
OHLArenaGuide
it's dot com
Many CHL athletes are also in University - the OHL even has an award for "Top University Academic Player", named after Roger Neilson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Neilson_Memorial_Award
Oilers Chick
Registered User
What is the percentage of those players of college age actually attending college/university and/or taking courses? Is it over 50%? over 25% over 10%?
Blind Gardien
nexus of the crisis
Well, bearing in mind the age bracket for junior players, there are probably less than 50% who have completed high school. And then as I've maintained in other posts, I doubt there are even 50% of junior players who will have the academic qualifications to attend university (bearing in mind that in Canada, University and College mean two very different things). So on that back of the envelope basis, you're really only looking at a maximum of 25% who could even be candidates. But I think that - partly because of the workload (games and practises) - and of course the travel - there would be very very few who are actually enrolled full-time in a university program. Less than 10% would be an easy guess there. Maybe upwards of 10% who are taking "some courses", but probably not on a full-time basis...
(just my guesses, totally off-the-cuff, two bags of salt and a capitalized "FWIW" on the side).Or looked at another way... because they know they have this "great and guaranteed" CHL scholarship coming, there isn't really much motivation to start full-time post-secondary education until AFTER they've finished junior anyway.
Nope, over 90% of OHL players attend school, although it is true that those who attend college do so on a part time basis.
Two weeks ago I was in Marquette, wathced NMU practice for two days...both days for not more than an hour.
Saw Comley run practices....for no more than an hour. I regularly saw Jackson run them at LSSU...and he would spend no more than an hour.
You are aware that the NCAA regulates contact time a coaching staff can have with its student athletes...even phone calls have to be monitored and calculated as "contact time".
Once again, the reality is that CHL players actually receive more structured practice time than their NCAA counter-parts. Have you ever heard of an off week (where in the NCAA the coaching staff can't have on ice contact with the players) in the CHL? Of course not!
Oilers Chick
Registered User
I'm not as stupid as you think I am, dear. I also know the NCAA rules and regulations ALOT better than you give me credit for.
Blind Gardien: I realize that the majority of CHL players are in high school, however my question was about the college aged kids, so thanks for the clarification. To be honest with you, with the 60-70+ games that CHL players have to play plus practice, I have to wonder where do those that do it, find the time to take ANY college/university courses? One thing I DON'T hear/read about (not here at HF, not in the Canadian Press or anywhere else) is about that nor the issue of time management. Why not?
Also, how is college different from university in Canada? For the most part, they're one in the same down here in the states. Aside from junior colleges (JCs), and we have state colleges/universities. In some states, such as in California, they are two separate systems (i.e. California State University and the University of California). Then we have the usual compliment of private institutions such as the Ivies, Stanford, USC and the like. Then we have what I'd call "specialty" schools such as the Military academies.
Finally, getting back to the whole CHL Scholarship topic, between what you and Alpine have noted here, it goes against much of what I've read and been told. Much of what I've read have come either from the individual CHL team press releases themselves or through the Canadian Press. So some one is wrong in what they're putting out there. I just want to know who is and why I'm getting conflicting stories here?
The CHL does pride itself on ensuring that its players so attend attend high school, college or university depending on their the ages of the repsective players.
Each of the CHL Leagues annually nominate their Scholastic Player of the Year with the national winner given an award during Memorial Cup Week. Virtually all of the CHL teams are located in communities large enough to have community colleges or Universities with educational opportunities available for the players.
Each of the CHL Leagues annually nominate their Scholastic Player of the Year with the national winner given an award during Memorial Cup Week. Virtually all of the CHL teams are located in communities large enough to have community colleges or Universities with educational opportunities available for the players.
CharlieGirl
Thank you Mr. Snider
In Canada, college is typically focused on applied learning and trades. There are only a few programs that would provide a degree upon finishing (and these are quite new) - it's typically a certificate or diploma. The entrance requirements are much lower for most programs than university. I'm guessing it's closer to your junior colleges?
Our universities are comparable to yours.
Never thought or implied you were stupid, just perhaps misinformed.
The point is that CHL players are indeed on the ice more than their college brethren and we should put to rest the erroneous notion that players receive much more practice time in college.....just like we put to rest the silly idea that CHL kids do not have the opportunity to receive a quality education.
Just like players skates don't stop when they're not in games...NCAA players skates do not stop when the season ends. Intensive training and playing is year-round for any serious prospect.
The debate was strictly hockey related. The main question was..which of the 2 paths are better at developing hockey players.
Fact of the matter is...the NCAA fans like to push the whole "we practise more" philosphy as a way of making the NCAA sound better. When in fact they dont practise more...
95% of all QMJHL players are in school...some form of school.
The 18 and under kids HAVE to go to High School. The 19 and 20 year olds dont...they have an option to go to College or University like all 19 and 20 year olds do in society.
If youre going to use that logic than why bring up the "we practise more" debate when all players are on the ice 12 months of the year??
I'm not getting where schooling (ncaa supporters here assuring us that quality of education of their esteemed student athletes make for the superior experience) the talk is about what route is supposed to be better for developing hockey players to be pro players.........not lawyers and doctors.
This is supposed to be strictly about hockey,not school.
This is supposed to be strictly about hockey,not school.
Blind Gardien
nexus of the crisis
I don't know why we don't hear more. Bearing in mind that all my comments are just from an OHL rinkrat-for-30-years perspective, but not really with any pretense at *knowing* anything... I've always got the impression that it *is* an issue for many players. They get a certain amount of leeway from their schools, a lot of the smaller town communities have had the historic relationship with the leagues, so they know how to handle kids doing a lot of work essentially by "correspondence" (even in high school). Of course, a lot of the college and university courses these days are already set up for distance learning. And despite the hockey-related workloads, there's also a fair bit of time on buses, etc, which can be used to good advantage. Time management is an issue, IMHO. It's probably the big issue as to why I'd choose the NCAA route for my son, if it was just my choice to make. I like the idea of having a more structured learning environment with fewer games (but still enough to more than adequately promote development as a player).
I think Charlie_girl basically answered it already. Colleges here mostly offer 1- or 2-year certificate or diploma programs (although there are longer diplomas, and there are more and more colleges now partnering with universities to allow continuations of studies, or for example things like nursing programs which are now 4-year degrees). University is where you go to get a degree. This is a sweeping generalizing, but you probably have to have something like a "B" or above high school average to hope to get into a university. You can take a college program basically just by graduating from high school.
Well, without knowing exactly what you've been told or what's in those CP articles or press releases, I guess I can't say. Anyway, there's nothing very secret or devious about the CHL education program AFAIK. I didn't know about the 1-year-to-use-it-then-it's-gone-if-you-play-pro condition that Alpine mentioned, but otherwise, I don't think there's anything mysterious. Play a year in junior, get a year of post-secondary education paid for by the CHL. It's a good program. It's especially geared for the majority of kids who *won't* have a professional future as hockey players. I still would send my son the NCAA route, as I've always said, maybe because I've been in OHL rinks too long, and maybe because my own university days are too fondly remembered, I just feel like there's a better *practical* mix of hockey and school with most NCAA programs. But that wouldn't stop me from admitting that a kid couldn't get just as good a mix if he applied himself and took advantage of the CHL package. Especially if he wasn't really an elite player and might not have serious pro aspirations.
Yep, college in Canada is the same thing as junior college or community college in the states. The Universities are the same.
CharlieGirl
Thank you Mr. Snider
Also, most (if not all) of the junior teams have an educational consultant on staff to help players with their schooling - high school and university. The EC works very closely with the schools and the players. I'm not saying that there are teams that turn a blind eye to education, but I think they're in the minority.
Well lets turn this into a USA vs. Canada's youngsters thread....CHL kids ...who yes, are mostly Canucks ...tend to enter the NHL sooner...NCAA guys are almost never in the NHL while still U20 age..& yet...sans our best...we generally spank ur Yank boyz at the WJC's...U give me a Best on Best U20's...Wherein the Staals and Crosby's... ie the Dream Teams get to play...and our Best Canuck U20's.... which mostly come out of the CHL ...will whip those prissy NCAA Prima Donnas any time
all this proves is that canada has a larger and better pool of hockey talent than the US, which we all knew, it says nothing about the developmental systems.
And Canada doesn't win this year's tourney without Jonathan Toews, who was an NCAA product, last time I checked. We'll take him off your hands if you want.
