Mackinnon vs Matthews

[The Abusement Park]

And Matt Duchene was 5th in 5 on 5 production over twice as long a time frame. It still didn't make him as good as the guys who produced 15-25 points more than him in all situations

Aw man I was gonna bring up Duchenes 5v5 production.

 

[Deficient Mode]

And Matt Duchene was 5th in 5 on 5 over twice as long. It still didn't make him as good as the guys who produce 15-25 points more than him in all situations

And you're over-stating the bolded, there's very few players who could generate as many PP-opportunities as MacK or be as lethal with them even if you gave a guy 20+ minutes a night and left him out there for the entire PP. Finally replacing Army as our PP coach helped a lot, but MacK's evolution cannot be dismissed just because some folks had given up on the kid at the age of 21.

Over what window was Duchene 5th in 5 on 5 per minute scoring? I found a four year stretch where he was 11th in primary points per minute and 9th in total points per minute. It wasn't right off the bat in his 19 and 20 year old seasons like Matthews either; it was more in line with when players typically peak: 22-25 year old seasons. Again, if Matthews take off in his 22 year old season like MacK, he'll exceed the latter's 5 on 5 scoring.

There is an element of skill involved in power play scoring but overall it is far more volatile than 5 on 5, and who gets points is based a lot on the preferred passing patterns of your coaches, and if you're getting 1st unit ice time or not. Matthews is absolutely capable of putting up points at a high rate on the PP - he did in 2016-17 - he simply didn't get the opportunities this year. He drew penalties at roughly the same rate per minute as MacKinnon this year (0.96 per 60 at all strengths to MacK's 0.94) while also taking penalties at a far lower rate (0.32 per 60 to MacK's 0.77 per 60); you'd be hard pressed to argue that MacKinnon provides more value in the drawing/taking penalties department.

 

[cgf]

Aw man I was gonna bring up Duchenes 5v5 production.

Do you remember when exactly it was? It's been so long since I've had to defend Matt that I don't remember the specifics anymore. I remember how often it came up on our board when we'd talk about what Dutchy could do if Army ever got fired, but I don't remember the exact details anymore to help DM out :-/

 

[The Abusement Park]

Do you remember when exactly it was? It's been so long since I've had to defend Matt that I don't remember the specifics anymore. I remember how often it came up on our board when we'd talk about what Dutchy could do if Army ever got fired, but I don't remember the exact details anymore to help DM out :-/

I don’t actually, but I know from like 2012-15 or something he was like top 12 or something in 5v5 pts.

 

[cgf]

I don’t actually, but I know from like 2012-15 or something he was like top 12 or something in 5v5 pts.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I think Matt was 4th or 5th for centers, not for all positions, in ES (or 5on5) points per game and(or?) raw totals?

 

[The Abusement Park]

Now that I'm thinking about it, I think Matt was 4th or 5th for centers, not for all positions, in ES (or 5on5) points per game and(or?) raw totals?

That sounds more correct to me.

 

[EverybodyLovesRay]

This was easy, MacKinnon.

 

[Brobust]

On the U23 World Cup team, MacKinnon and Matthews were the 2nd and 3rd best players after McDavid.

I think it's appropriate that MacKinnon dominates this poll after the season he just had, but only uninformed hockey fans would insist that Matthews isn't in the same league. The previous season, MacKinnon's breakout, was his 5th in the league. Matthews has had 2 seasons and he's already had a 40 goal season and one where he scored close to a PPG.

 

[Halla]

recency bias strong in this thread

rookie matthews had more pts and nearly twice as many goals as mackinnon had in any of his first 4 seasons
ppg+ in his 2nd year , a feat nate mac didnt accomplish until his 5th year.

74g/132pts in 144 games vs 38g/101pts in 146 games at the same point in their careers....

 

[Halla]

This was easy, MacKinnon.

yeah lets see how easy it is if mackinnon drops back down to his career production before the past season (14-24g/low of 38pts, high of 63pts). He dropped 25pts aftyer his previous career season, if he does anything like that it will be an easy matthews

cant wait for AM to drop 45g/90+pts this season

 

[cgf]

recency bias strong in this thread

rookie matthews had more pts and nearly twice as many goals as mackinnon had in any of his first 4 seasons
ppg+ in his 2nd year , a feat nate mac didnt accomplish until his 5th year.

74g/132pts in 144 games vs 38g/101pts in 146 games at the same point in their careers....

...Nathan MacKinnon was almost a full year younger when he put up 1 less point in 1 game (regular season + playoffs) as a rookie...

 

[mattcookefan]

yeah lets see how easy it is if mackinnon drops back down to his career production before the past season (14-24g/low of 38pts, high of 63pts). He dropped 25pts aftyer his previous career season, if he does anything like that it will be an easy matthews

cant wait for AM to drop 45g/90+pts this season

Lets wait for him to score 90 plus points before declaring it

 

[LeafsNation75]

...Nathan MacKinnon was almost a full year younger when he put up 1 less point in 1 game (regular season + playoffs) as a rookie...

Most people would still make Matthews 40 regular season goals in his rookie season compared to MacKinnon's 24 goals.

Now before someone brings it up yes I know MacKinnon had more assists than Matthews, however it's harder to score goals than to get assists.