Mackinnon vs Kucherov

[KoozNetsOff 92]

No it doesn't but we are talking about now. What happened within the last 3 years is more relevant to the comparison, especially considering Mackinnons age.

This season is 30% done but Mackinnon is as good right now as he's ever been, including 17/18. Its almost like he's reached another level since then.

Mackinnon's got a pretty clear disadvantage in the team he plays for, on an individual basis was Kucherov really "WAY better" last year? I don't think Mackinnon's play took a huge hit, Tampa Bay did get much much better though. Swap them teams & is Kucherov leading Mackinnon by that many points? He might still lead but I doubt its by a "WAY better" margin.

I'll say it again. Mackinnon single-handedly wins games for his team right now. In a rare fashion. This guy is surpassing Crosby right now.

I have no love affair for the Avalanche but Mackinnon is simply an incredible player. Reminds me of Stamkos in 2012 the way he's taking over the league.

And in the last 3 full seasons, Kucherov has the clear best season and was better in 2/3. I understand you're trying to use 17/18-19/20 but I don't like to use 30 games as a season.

Come on, when a guy has 29 more pts he was clearly on a different level. I don't buy the teams and/or line mate stuff, great players will produce regardless. And let's not act like MacK plays with scrubs, he's on the best or 2nd best line in the league, Rantanen is 1 of the best RWs in the league. I don't go into the fantasy scenarios so I'll leave that for those who do.

I already said MacK is a top 5 player, just don't think he's better than Kucherov based on how I evaluate players. I agree MacK is getting better every year and going forward I 100% choose him, just don't think he's better right now. Of course if he out scores Kucherov this season then I'll rethink that.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Can't forget that Kucherov just put up the highest scoring season in nearly 20 years...and he's coming in hot again lately (19 points in 11 games).

I think this one is really close.

OF course people will forget this it’s really a fickle (flavour of the month attitude in the polls forum usually lol) but I’m just as probably too though.

I’m glad you reminded and he was in the top few the seasons before that too I believe that being said Mackinnon is a center so him.

 

[Regal]

I was never that high on Kucherov's season last year. Great team where he milked a ton of PP secondaries. Still a great season, but he wasn't on the level of a Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, McDavid at their best. I think he and MacK are roughly on the same level. I tend to prefer MacK's game more though because of his speed and power. I think when things aren't going his teams way, he's 2nd only to McDavid in terms of taking things into his own hands.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

And in the last 3 full seasons, Kucherov has the clear best season and was better in 2/3. I understand you're trying to use 17/18-19/20 but I don't like to use 30 games as a season.

Come on, when a guy has 29 more pts he was clearly on a different level. I don't buy the teams and/or line mate stuff, great players will produce regardless. And let's not act like MacK plays with scrubs, he's on the best or 2nd best line in the league, Rantanen is 1 of the best RWs in the league. I don't go into the fantasy scenarios so I'll leave that for those who do.

I already said MacK is a top 5 player, just don't think he's better than Kucherov based on how I evaluate players. I agree MacK is getting better every year and going forward I 100% choose him, just don't think he's better right now. Of course if he out scores Kucherov this season then I'll rethink that.

I'm with you Kuch was better last year. I think Mackinnon is the better player right now. I'm very hesitant to elevate players above Crosby but right now I think Mackinnon just at an insane level. I'd have him #2 in the league ATM behind McDavid. Could be a Western bias on my part, atleast in respect to Kuch, but I really think Mackinnon is establishing himself ATM as in that top tier with McDavid and Crosby. The Avalanche aren't an impressive team & he's winning them games.

I'll take 17/18 & give you last year. I think we can agree there. So it comes down to this season. Right now I think Mac's really establishing himself but its only 30% done as you say so we can re-visit this and see where our opinions stand at the end. And I'm not a Kuch hater by anymeans, I just think very highly of Mackinnon. I'd have him ahead of Draisaitl and Pastrnak right now too.

 

[AMDZen]

It's not close and I'm proud of HF for casting their votes in the obvious manner

 

[Hint1k]

I was never that high on Kucherov's season last year. Great team where he milked a ton of PP secondaries. I think he and MacK are roughly on the same level.

If you'd checked facts, you would know that Kucherov got 80 even strength points last year, while Mack got only 62.

~20 points difference? Sure its the same level

 

[bobholly39]

I was never that high on Kucherov's season last year. Great team where he milked a ton of PP secondaries. Still a great season, but he wasn't on the level of a Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, McDavid at their best. I think he and MacK are roughly on the same level. I tend to prefer MacK's game more though because of his speed and power. I think when things aren't going his teams way, he's 2nd only to McDavid in terms of taking things into his own hands.

I think at some point you have to simply respect the production. 128 points is something no one had done in over 20 years and an inceedible number in todays league.

PP and secondary assists still count on the scoreboard and are availble to anyone.

 

[LaMasquerade]

MacK, esp. considering their playoffs performances so far.

 

[34]

MacKinnon is the best player in the NHL. Does not get enough credit.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

So much recency bias. If this is a thread for right now then OK, I get this lopsided result but if we're talking over the passed few years it has to be Kuch.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

MacKinnon is the 3rd best forward in the league and better than Kucherov

 

[tony d]

Close but MacKinnon.

 

[Sentinel]

Reminds me of Stamkos in 2012 the way he's taking over the league.

Stamkos in 2012 didn't "overtake" anything. IIRC he's got a total of one first place Hart vote. All other votes went to certain Evgeni Malkin.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I think both have an ability to be the best players on the ice but I think Mackinnon is more consistent. Kucherov can get hot and be unstoppable for periods tho but he can look awful for stretches too. I feel like Mackinnon when quiet will still look good. Maybe Avs fans can comment on that.

 

[Muffin]

MacKinnon is the 3rd best forward in the league and better than Kucherov

Are you implying Draisaitl is better than MacKinnon? All you need to do is watch Draisaitl away from McDavid like they tried in the past 2 games to see he's not MacKinnon level.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Everbody in the NHL takes MacKinnon over Kucherov

That said Don't sleep on Kuch. He is heating up and we could see him pass MacKinnon in points this year

 

[Regal]

I think at some point you have to simply respect the production. 128 points is something no one had done in over 20 years and an inceedible number in todays league.

PP and secondary assists still count on the scoreboard and are availble to anyone.

They're not equally available to everyone though because not everyone gets to play in certain favourable positions. Kucherov is the engine of Tampa's PP but having Stamkos and Point finish like they did was huge. I just don't think the point totals reflect how good he was as a player. It was a case where a great player had everything go right for him, and I don't think it's repeatable. If we're judging careers then sure, he did it and you can't take that away. But if we're just looking at who is better today, the fact that I don't think it's sustainable means I don't give it weight beyond what I think is sustainable, and I think he ends up with similar totals to MacKinnon this year and in the near future.

 

[Krewe]

The player who has outscored the other every year besides their rookie years. Let's not pretend Mackinnon doesn't play on a better line than Kucherov

As for who is more valuable? That's tough because of position. But on a pure "who is better at their position / a better scorer" basis, I'd take Kucherov for sure.

 

[Cup or Bust]

The only player I take over Mackinnon is McDavid.

 

[Mighty Makar]

The only player I take over Mackinnon is McDavid.

Same!

 

[Regal]

If you'd checked facts, you would know that Kucherov got 80 even strength points last year, while Mack got only 62.

~20 points difference? Sure its the same level

18 points is a lot different than 29 though. And I didn't say PP points in general weren't important, I said his were inflated by secondaries. I don't think those are worthless, but it's a lot easier to pile them up when your PP is clicking like Tampa's was.

I also wasn't directly comparing him to Mack in that section. If you noticed, I talked about Malkin, Ovechkin, etc. My point was that Kucherov's season gets pushed onto that level by some people because we're not used to those totals. As such, those people are more likely to dismiss the idea of MacKinnon being better. But I don't believe it was on the level of those guys, he had a season where everything went right for him in terms of production and the league scoring rise gave him the highest point total in years. It was still a better season than MacKinnon that year, and better than any of MacKinnon's so far, but I don't believe the gap was as large as the point totals and I don't think that it's repeatable. I also think MacKinnon played better in '18 and so far this year than he did last year. I'm expecting this year to be more like '18, where they were both great but MacKinnon was a little better.

 

[North Cole]

Kucherov just came off a 128 point season. Do people forget that? I dont understand....


He has 30 points in 24 games. Last year he had 32 in 24 games. Started slow too..

If you're just judging this off of the 128 point season, is he better than McDavid?

I think Mack is basically the second best forward in the league, it's not disrespectful for Kucherov to be worse and still top 5. He started off slow last year but was still top 5 in scoring at this time, he isnt this year. He can still shoot up there, but hes got some ground to make up

 

[VinikToWinIt]

I'll take the guy who has outproduced the other guy in each of the last 5 seasons.

The only season where it's even debatable if MacKinnon was the better player was in 2017-2018, since he missed 6 more games and produced 3 less points. The other seasons aren't even close.

 

[bov]

MacKinnon easily, despite the infatuation with points and awards on this website. Kucherov is a great talent but isn't in MacKinnon's tier.

 

[VinikToWinIt]

MacKinnon easily, despite the infatuation with points and awards on this website. Kucherov is a great talent but isn't in MacKinnon's tier.

What exactly makes MacKinnon win this "easily"?

It certainly isn't production. Is it his position? Draft status? Nationality? Personality?

Whatever it is, I don't think it's worth an average of 21 points per season since 2014-2015. MacKinnon has had exactly one season in the last 5 where he trailed Kucherov by less than 14 points. And one more season where he trailed by less than 27.