Confirmed with Link: Mackenze Stewart will not receive a qualifying offer

[krutovsdonut]

Rather than learning the lesson by upper management the impression I get is that we have some more competent people having their voice heard in the room. When Benning first took over he quuckly turfed the prior regimes top guys, and it seemed like him, Linden, Wiesbrod, and Desjardins were primarily running the show. Now things have settled and we have guys like Brackett and Green in more prominant roles.

when stewart was drafted in june 2014, benning had been onboard a month and had made no changes to the existing scouting group. moving from boston with no personal background in scouting the whl, it's a fairly safe bet the gm didn't personally scout a 7th rounder out of prince albert which had missed the playoffs. the head of amateur scouting and the guy specializing in the whl was ron delorme. presumably he would have been advising on virtanen and stewart.

when stewart was signed in may 2015, weisbrod was not hired yet. the person who negotiated minor league contracts was gilman in consultation with lorne henning who ran the minor league development teams. erik crawford was the head of player development. delorme still ran amateur scouting and still specialized in the whl. i suppose it is possible benning over rode all of them over an echl signing.

3 of those 4 were fired 2 months later and bracket was promoted over delorme and weisbrod was hired.

but let's not let every single fact get in the way of a good benning/wesibrod bash.

 

[tantalum]

Bennng is responsible for signing him though. A year after drafting him. A disappointing year for someone with not even NHL hopes but even minor pro career hopes. A signing with the ambition of somehow turning him into a winger and based almost solely on the kids desire to be a pro.

It’s not something you can pin on anyone other than Benning when it comes to the actual contract.

 

[Jay Cee]

It was a bad pick the moment it was made, but let's not pretend it is a current management phenomenon. A careful examination of 6th and 7th round picks of the Canucks reveals a long history of this type of pick. I would argue that the Benning regime has led in the big picture to the acquisition of the softest players in Canucks history, quite to the contrary of looking for tough Neanderthals.

Kind of strange he got a contract though.

 

[I in the Eye]

Bennng is responsible for signing him though. A year after drafting him. A disappointing year for someone with not even NHL hopes but even minor pro career hopes. A signing with the ambition of somehow turning him into a winger and based almost solely on the kids desire to be a pro.

It’s not something you can pin on anyone other than Benning when it comes to the actual contract.

Benning definitely seemed pleased with mackenze and that he was given contract: Canucks hope to turn newly signed Mackenze Stewart into a winger

Can only assume that Benning approved of Stewart being given a contract. Who led the charge? I don't know... but the contract is on the ledger of a Benning failure, from the beginning until now. The organization tried to will him into the nhl... didn't work.

 

[krutovsdonut]

lol. true enough. benning didn't say "i can't believe this, which idiot signed this guy?" when doing his press conference so that's proof it was all his idea.

you have to love months of "bracket's pick" cherry picking parsing nonsense giving anyone but benning credit for some prospects, and suddenly it's all "the buck stops here" and the gm is absolutely responsible for an echl signing by a bunch of guys he fired 2 months later.

ok fine. go for it. i don't care either way, but just try to be consistent.

 

[I in the Eye]

lol. true enough. benning didn't say "i can't believe this, which idiot signed this guy?" when doing his press conference so that's proof it was all his idea.

you have to love months of "bracket's pick" cherry picking parsing nonsense giving anyone but benning credit for some prospects, and suddenly it's all "the buck stops here" and the gm is absolutely responsible for an echl signing by a bunch of guys he fired 2 months later.

ok fine. go for it. i don't care either way, but just try to be consistent.

I could totally see delorme and weisbrod leading the charge and convincing Benning to sign the contract... and then mackenze pay 20% to them in an offshore account for "consulting". Have to wonder about some of those late round delorme picks... and weisbrod seems fishy.



Maybe it was aliens who said to delorme convince Benning to sign mackenze, or we'll blow up the world.

I assume Benning signed the cheque? That has to be a vote that he was on board.

I'm willing to attach any success or failure under Benning's watch and signature to him. I give Benning as much credit for stewart and clendening, as I do for boeser and Pettersson. In the end, it's his signature signing off.

In some cases, we know or have an idea who provides the recommendations are, and in some cases we don't... but in the end, to me, it's on Benning's record.

 

[F A N]

It was a bad pick the moment it was made, but let's not pretend it is a current management phenomenon. A careful examination of 6th and 7th round picks of the Canucks reveals a long history of this type of pick. I would argue that the Benning regime has led in the big picture to the acquisition of the softest players in Canucks history, quite to the contrary of looking for tough Neanderthals.

Kind of strange he got a contract though.

Benning did talk about going after some specialized players in the 2014 draft. I had no problem with the Canucks using a pick to select a player that they think has a chance to play and McKenzie’s size, skating, his late start to hockey, and what he went through to get to where he was was intriguing. They were completely wrong in signing him as the whole purpose was that they thought he was ready to be a 6’4” forechecking beast at the pro level.

 

[HarvP19]

He is a ECHL'er max. No point of keeping him

 

[Huggy43]

I remember so many on the Daily Hive facebook page (comments section) kept arguing with me about this guy. They were saying that Stewart was exactly what this team needs and that he'll be a key piece of our defense for years to come, that we needed his toughness and he'll be great for us.

Waste of a draft pick, and a waste of a contract spot for the last 3 years.

Uhhh... well that's your first problem! Hahah. Maybe don't go to a Facebook comment section for quality hockey talk? ...Or anything in general. Facebook comment sections are where brain cells go to die.

 

[Nucker42]

The Canucks didn’t fail to sign any other players because Stewart was on a contract.

He didn’t take an ahl spot from anyone, so who cares?

Nice kid, had size was a long shot and now he’s gone.

Good luck to him. Hardest job in sports, tough guy.

 

[Bitz and Bites]

I seem to recall part of the justification of the pick was that Stewart was showing amazing progression after his late start into hockey and they (Delorme?) were hoping that would continue as he kept playing.
Unfortunately he pretty much plateaued as a third pairing ECHL defender..Hopfully he can land another gig in the ECHL if he wants to continue with pro hockey.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

I could have told them he wasn't qualified three years ago and saved them some money.

 

[RandV]

when stewart was drafted in june 2014, benning had been onboard a month and had made no changes to the existing scouting group. moving from boston with no personal background in scouting the whl, it's a fairly safe bet the gm didn't personally scout a 7th rounder out of prince albert which had missed the playoffs. the head of amateur scouting and the guy specializing in the whl was ron delorme. presumably he would have been advising on virtanen and stewart.

when stewart was signed in may 2015, weisbrod was not hired yet. the person who negotiated minor league contracts was gilman in consultation with lorne henning who ran the minor league development teams. erik crawford was the head of player development. delorme still ran amateur scouting and still specialized in the whl. i suppose it is possible benning over rode all of them over an echl signing.

3 of those 4 were fired 2 months later and bracket was promoted over delorme and weisbrod was hired.

but let's not let every single fact get in the way of a good benning/wesibrod bash.

Actually it's pretty simple to here. Benning let the scouts each have their pick in the 2014 draft, and Stewart was obviously a Ron Delorme special. Benning could have been excused from it, but I'm pretty sure there were some positive quotes on Stewart from him shortly after the draft and he double downed by actual giving him an ELC contract.

The rest of what I was saying was a general opinion over the first 2-3 years of the Benning regime, which Stewart was a minor part of.

 

[y2kcanucks]

The Canucks didn’t fail to sign any other players because Stewart was on a contract.

He didn’t take an ahl spot from anyone, so who cares?

Nice kid, had size was a long shot and now he’s gone.

Good luck to him. Hardest job in sports, tough guy.

If only it were that simple.

It's concerning that Canucks management felt this kid was worth a contract spot. That shows their lack of an eye for talent.

 

[y2kcanucks]

when stewart was drafted in june 2014, benning had been onboard a month and had made no changes to the existing scouting group. moving from boston with no personal background in scouting the whl, it's a fairly safe bet the gm didn't personally scout a 7th rounder out of prince albert which had missed the playoffs. the head of amateur scouting and the guy specializing in the whl was ron delorme. presumably he would have been advising on virtanen and stewart.

when stewart was signed in may 2015, weisbrod was not hired yet. the person who negotiated minor league contracts was gilman in consultation with lorne henning who ran the minor league development teams. erik crawford was the head of player development. delorme still ran amateur scouting and still specialized in the whl. i suppose it is possible benning over rode all of them over an echl signing.

3 of those 4 were fired 2 months later and bracket was promoted over delorme and weisbrod was hired.

but let's not let every single fact get in the way of a good benning/wesibrod bash.

If you want to talk facts you might want to actually get the facts right. John Weisbrod was hired on July 7, 2014 as VP of Player Personnel: Canucks add John Weisbrod as a VP

Just because Gilman's role involved contracts doesn't mean he wasn't taking direction from his boss. It's been discussed how Gilman refused to even discuss the Sbisa/Dorsett contracts, so is it a reach to suggest that Gilman wouldn't have been on board with the Stewart signing either? Jim Benning was his boss so he would be taking direction from him.

I also find the flip flop funny. In one thread you want to praise Benning for the 2014 draft, yet in this instance you use actual logic to defend Benning against the Stewart pick. Which is it? Or does Benning just get credit for the hits but no blame for the misses? Seems to be that way.

 

[alternate]

If you want to talk facts you might want to actually get the facts right. John Weisbrod was hired on July 7, 2014 as VP of Player Personnel: Canucks add John Weisbrod as a VP

Just because Gilman's role involved contracts doesn't mean he wasn't taking direction from his boss. It's been discussed how Gilman refused to even discuss the Sbisa/Dorsett contracts, so is it a reach to suggest that Gilman wouldn't have been on board with the Stewart signing either? Jim Benning was his boss so he would be taking direction from him.

I also find the flip flop funny. In one thread you want to praise Benning for the 2014 draft, yet in this instance you use actual logic to defend Benning against the Stewart pick. Which is it? Or does Benning just get credit for the hits but no blame for the misses? Seems to be that way.

The irony is strong in this one.

 

[I in the Eye]

The Canucks didn’t fail to sign any other players because Stewart was on a contract.

He didn’t take an ahl spot from anyone, so who cares?

Nice kid, had size was a long shot and now he’s gone.

Good luck to him. Hardest job in sports, tough guy.

Long shot is an understatement.

"As it turns out, the reason why there’s so little quality information on Mackenze Stewart out there is simply because scouts have watched him and made the determination that he’s not even worth keeping an eye on. There’s no exceptional physical gifts beyond being big, no plus-level defensive ability to note, and nothing projectable about his puck skills. “I bet not one other NHL team even had [Stewart] ranked as a draftable player” was what one WHL scout told me, adding that seeing Stewart get drafted “was a complete shock,” which makes the decision to not only draft him but to sign him just one year later after minimal growth absolutely mystifying. Corey Pronman noted that in his eyes, Stewart is 'not a prospect.'"

Canucks Sign Mackenze Stewart to ELC – First Impressions

It made no sense to draft him... and it made absolutely no sense to sign him. It was a complete waste of hundreds of thousands of dollars. They were either doing Makenze Stewart's family a big favour, or they completely misjudged him from a scouting perspective and his future role to the team. That he didn't take an AHL spot from anyone is besides the point. Can give a somewhat reasonable pass (or at least reason) on the drafting as bad typical delorme drafting (and Benning being new, solely dependent on his scout's recommendation after recently being hired)... but what can possibly be given as a pass for the signing? Benning thought that sheer will could allow Stewart to make it. It was intellectually adolescent thinking. It was a complete f*** up, from the very beginning. Anyone arguing otherwise, Benning included, is just not looking at or considering reality in the decision. "If anyone can make the NHL, Mackenze can", said Benning. No Benning, Mackenze can't... Mackenze never could. I have never seen a player been given such an opportunity, undeservingly. Has it ever been looked into if mackenze could be Benning's illegitimate son? It took Benning 4 years for what scouts from other teams knew before he was even drafted. This is not Benning's biggest error... but it's one of the most infuriating, IMO. That Benning had it in him to sign him was infuriating... and the arguments here were infuriating where the "wait and see" posts those 2014 and 2015 years were based on nothing but faith, and wrapped under the guise of "reasonableness" to wait.

 

[Paulinvancouver]

that's too bad. it was a nice PR move while it lasted. Best wishes Mackenzie!

 

[krutovsdonut]

If you want to talk facts you might want to actually get the facts right. John Weisbrod was hired on July 7, 2014 as VP of Player Personnel: Canucks add John Weisbrod as a VP

Just because Gilman's role involved contracts doesn't mean he wasn't taking direction from his boss. It's been discussed how Gilman refused to even discuss the Sbisa/Dorsett contracts, so is it a reach to suggest that Gilman wouldn't have been on board with the Stewart signing either? Jim Benning was his boss so he would be taking direction from him.

I also find the flip flop funny. In one thread you want to praise Benning for the 2014 draft, yet in this instance you use actual logic to defend Benning against the Stewart pick. Which is it? Or does Benning just get credit for the hits but no blame for the misses? Seems to be that way.

you are right, weisbrod was promoted to agm in august 2015 when gilman et al were fired, but worked previously under erik crawford. i am not sure if you are suggesting that as an assistant to the director of player personnel weisbrod was responsible for the decision to sign stewart but that seems unlikely. anything's possible i guess. maybe he's sombeody's relative.

gilman refusing to discuss the sbisa/dorsett contracts sounds like more mythologizing going on in the management thread. good luck with that. lord of the rings was great.

and what flip flop are you referring to? it's pretty obvious the 2014 draft was a transition for benning. all i said is that benning was unlikely involved with choosing an obscure 7th round whl player he likely never saw play.

 

[Krnuckfan]

you are right, weisbrod was promoted to agm in august 2015 when gilman et al were fired, but worked previously under erik crawford. i am not sure if you are suggesting that as an assistant to the director of player personnel weisbrod was responsible for the decision to sign stewart but that seems unlikely. anything's possible i guess. maybe he's sombeody's relative.

gilman refusing to discuss the sbisa/dorsett contracts sounds like more mythologizing going on in the management thread. good luck with that. lord of the rings was great.

and what flip flop are you referring to? it's pretty obvious the 2014 draft was a transition for benning. all i said is that benning was unlikely involved with choosing an obscure 7th round whl player he likely never saw play.

Drafting him in the first place was stupid. Signing him to an elc is what people are more pissed off about.

As usual you are making nonsensical arguments absolving Benning of any sort of blame.

Here's some quotes by ole dimbo showing just how bad he is at evaluating talent.

“We drafted him as a defenceman,” Benning said. “This year, he played some wing and some defence. I think what we are going to try and do is develop him as a winger. He is a real good skater for his size, he gets in on the forecheck and plays physical. He’ll stick up for his teammates, he’s a hard-nosed kid who will do what needs to be done.”

“He is the type of kid that if there’s any way to figure out how to be a NHL player, he is going to do it,” Benning said. “He’s serious about wanting to be a player. He is going to leave no stone unturned to try and make it as a player. I have seen through the years kids that have this sort of intensity and they kind of figure out a way.”

“We signed him to a contract, he’ll start off in Utica and we’ll see how that goes and go from there. He’s a fantastic kid and a total team player.”

Yep. Benning had nothing to do with signing him at all.

 

[Jyrki21]

Everything about Stewart – the draft pick itself, but especially handing him an NHL contract – just smacked of the Make-a-Wish Foundation. Like they were just doing a solid for a nice kid or a friend's nephew or whatever. I just don't see how they could imagine otherwise.

I mean if they're willing to throw money around I guess it's a nice gesture, but maybe don't waste a draft pick in the process (couldn't they just have signed him as a free agent at some point?) or, ideally, a contract slot. But then if money is really no object, I also don't get why you'd, say, nickel-and-dime Reid Boucher to a two-way contract at the same time.

That said, I did lose a bet with myself that somehow, somewhere in Benning's tenure they would find some reason to call him up to the Canucks.

 

[y2kcanucks]

you are right, weisbrod was promoted to agm in august 2015 when gilman et al were fired, but worked previously under erik crawford. i am not sure if you are suggesting that as an assistant to the director of player personnel weisbrod was responsible for the decision to sign stewart but that seems unlikely. anything's possible i guess. maybe he's sombeody's relative.

gilman refusing to discuss the sbisa/dorsett contracts sounds like more mythologizing going on in the management thread. good luck with that. lord of the rings was great.

and what flip flop are you referring to? it's pretty obvious the 2014 draft was a transition for benning. all i said is that benning was unlikely involved with choosing an obscure 7th round whl player he likely never saw play.

I'm glad you finally admit that Benning had little to do with the 2014 draft (outside of what's been reported where he overruled scouts to pick Jake Virtanen).

With that out of the way, looking at the Canucks draft track record under Benning (2015-present) it doesn't look too great.

 

[RandV]

Yeah if people were just complaining about the draft selection itself you'd still be hearing about Kyle Petit, a 10 point OHL shutdown center who for some reason our usually good OHL scouts chose in the 6th round. Benning gets to wear Stewart because of his own words, and then again because he gave him a contract.

 

[VanJack]

Kind of pulling for Stewart who got a late start in hockey and had to overcome hearing challenges to become a hockey player. But the Canucks have a less than sterling record of uncovering d-men in later rounds. Guys like Liberati, Olson, Neill and Candella never even earned contracts. And hands up anyone who thinks Kristopher Gunnarson will earn a contract either. Forsling might have been the best of the bunch and they traded him before he developed...maybe a kid like Matt Brassard will actually break the mold of late round d-man flops.

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

that's too bad. it was a nice PR move while it lasted. Best wishes Mackenzie!

I've reading through this thread looking for some kind of reference to this. I couldn't remember if it was Mac for sure, but I thought there might have been a feel good story that went along with this pick.