Sportsnet: MacArthur sounds off on former coach Carlyle

[bunjay]

McClement was also on the Avs and the Blues:
Avs:
12th in PK
29th in PK

St. Louis
15th in PK
16th in PK

Toronto:
2nd in PK.

Forgive me for thinking that the coach had just as much of a hand in turing our PK into one of the best in the league.

Reimer is a good goalie but our PK over the last decade or so just allowed far too easy of an entry, players were hesitant to block shots and were easy to cycle against.

Our PK doesn't allow easy entries in the zone, goes after the puck carrier like a bunch of hawks, blocks every possible scoring chance and gets the puck out of the zone more often than not.

That's coaching, simple as that.

Not sure what you're watching if you think the Leafs PK doesnt still allow easy entry into the zone. THey make the opposing unit's set plays look effortless most of the time.

Not sure what point you think you're making with stats showing middle-of-the-pack PKs except the year the Avs were the worst team in the league at pretty much everything? Since coming to the Leafs Jay McClement is the undisputed #1 PKer in the NHL. You think Carlyle taught him how to do it?

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Kulemin's the remaining guy from the Mac-Grabo-Kule line. Wonder if he has problems with Carlyle too

 

[Loosie]

So two-thirds of the top line from the Wilson days are no longer with the team and have issues with the new coach because they didn't like the role they were given. Yet the third member of that line is still with the team and is doing quite well in the role given them.

the Mac-Grabo-Kuli line was our top line during the Wilson days because he ran a run-and-gun system with no defensive responsibilities. Carlyle comes in and stresses team defence recognizes that Mac-Grabo-Kuli should not be our #1 line, and Mac and Grabo has issues because it exposed thier defensive game, while Kulimen found his. Mac and Grabo complain...Kulimen keep splaying for the Leafs. Sounds right.

 

[Woodman19]

In the end a coach does not have to be loved by his players to find success. Provided he is fair to all his players.

 

[bunjay]

The only trend I see are the 2 underachievers last year didn't like not getting the top 6 minutes they were accustomed to. We made the playoffs for the first time in a decade last year so I have hard time believing it was the wrong decision to not give them those minutes.

How many times over that decade would the Leafs have made the playoffs if the seasons ended at 48 games?

You and many others are attaching waaaay too much importance to that. Where our team finishes this season means infinitely more, because we arent going to get any more seasons under 82 games with Carlyle. The other 34 are kind of important. One might even say the most important.

 

[Daisy Jane]

-make playoffs in a 48 game season
-have one of the most spectacular 3rd period collapses in the history of NHL game sevens
-get bailed out by fantastic goaltending in two games in which the defense was absolutely atrocious




-think everything is amazing

only in leafs nation.


Just a little perspective for you

for crap sakes. it was still a freaking season if we hadn't made the playoffs people would be saying "they couldn't even make the playoffs in a 48 game season." it's not like everyone played 82 games, and we played 48 as a handicap. crikey moses.


blow a 3 goal lead in ten minutes. yes bad.
blow a 1 goal lead in .17 seconds. or
failure to close out a team after being up 3 games to none and 3-0 in game seven. must be amazing coaching in Boston

Patt Quinn got a lot out of his teams in the playoffs. Especially when they were down by 1 late in the game. Roberts can theorize all he wants about how many cups they'd have won if Quinn was a better coach. But that sounds to me like some sour grapes from a player who doesn't accept that he got beaten by better teams. You can only go so far with Bryan McCabe as your #1 defenseman.

Did I say, Quinn didn't?
Roberts didn't say he wasn't either. the question was asked why didn't they go further with the lineups that they had. (in Roberts tenure it was 2 2nd rounds, 2 3rd rounds, and then back to back 1st round losses to Philly). And that was Roberts guess. He never flat out said "well Pat's not THIS kind of coach so THAT never happened." he didn't go to the media and whine about Quinn's coaching style."

(and we lost to NJD because of Domi's stupid freaking elbow. We lost to Carolina because we were too depleted from back to back game sevens and injuries).

 

[Razz]

In the end a coach does not have to be loved by his players to find success. Provided he is fair to all his players.

Exactly although fairness isn't always viewed objectively. Doubt MacArthur felt he was treated fairly. I bet Franson does though. He's thrived under Carlyle.

 

[Garbs]

Again, so much revisionist history going on re: Grabovski. I suggest people go to last year's game logs, and study the ice time of players at the beginning of the season.

Check out MacArthur vs. JvR, before Lupul got hurt. Then make sure to check out Grabovski vs. Kadri, it might open your eyes a little bit. I'll spoil some of it for you - one of those players was routinely getting 18-20 minutes of playing time a night. He finished the season averaging close to 12.

Carlyle setting up Grabovski to fail? Get out of here with this ********.

 

[Pi]

-make playoffs in a 48 game season
-have one of the most spectacular 3rd period collapses in the history of NHL game sevens
-get bailed out by fantastic goaltending in two games in which the defense was absolutely atrocious



-think everything is amazing

only in leafs nation.


Just a little perspective for you

Hey just a quick question. Were the Leafs the only team to play 48 games last season?

No wonder the Leafs made the playoffs. Rest of the teams played 24 games and the Leafs played 48!

1 game season, 2 game season, 82 game season, n game season...doesn't matter. Equal playing field. Either you make it or you don't.

 

[Woodman19]

Exactly although fairness isn't always viewed objectively. Doubt MacArthur felt he was treated fairly. I bet Franson does though. He's thrived under Carlyle.

The only thing I think players like Grabovsky and MacArthur don't like is how Carlyle demands a strong back check and defensive responsibility from his forwards. If they are mad about that it only adds credence to the fact that he is tough but fair.

 

[bunjay]

So two-thirds of the top line from the Wilson days are no longer with the team and have issues with the new coach because they didn't like the role they were given. Yet the third member of that line is still with the team and is doing quite well in the role given them.

the Mac-Grabo-Kuli line was our top line during the Wilson days because he ran a run-and-gun system with no defensive responsibilities. Carlyle comes in and stresses team defence recognizes that Mac-Grabo-Kuli should not be our #1 line, and Mac and Grabo has issues because it exposed thier defensive game, while Kulimen found his. Mac and Grabo complain...Kulimen keep splaying for the Leafs. Sounds right.

They were the top line for half a season, and of the three the biggest fall from grace has most certainly been Kulemin's. Kulemin is still with the team because his turn forgetting how to play hockey happened before he signed his contract. He was not very good at all defensively last season, or the season before that.

 

[AuGsY]

Not skilled enough for top 6, not gritty/big enough to be an ideal 3rd line winger. I can see why Carlyle scratched him.

 

[7even]

The only trend I see are the 2 underachievers last year didn't like not getting the top 6 minutes they were accustomed to. We made the playoffs for the first time in a decade last year so I have hard time believing it was the wrong decision to not give them those minutes.

I'm sure not playing Mac and Grabs probably directly earned us like 20 wins.

I can play that game too. As soon as MacArthur was put back in the lineup, he scored two huge goals in the playoffs which counts for like at least 200x the regular season and we almost won the series. I have a hard time believing playing Mac was the wrong decision.

 

[Razz]

The only thing I think players like Grabovsky and MacArthur don't like is how Carlyle demands a strong back check and defensive responsibility from his forwards. If they are mad about that it only adds credence to the fact that he is tough but fair.

Nobody really is a bad self critic. I'm sure Mac and Grabo thought they were doing everything they could. Carlyle felt they weren't good enough, so in their minds they were getting an unfair shafting.

I doubt these guys tell themselves "yeah I really suck at this, I deserve to be scratched in key situations."

Carlyle's evaluation is based on his on internal biases, he may have been wrong but in the end it just comes down to his subjective analysis and that's what they pay him for.

I agree though, I think he's fair, just his demands may be viewed by those on the wrong end of it as highly unfair and unforgiving.

 

[The Legend]

It's called taking the high road.

How is it the high road? How many people would criticize him (and grabo) for cliched hockey quotes if he wasn't honest?

Carlyle plays favorites. We know that. He got us in the playoffs last year so I can't rip the guy too much but the leash is definitely shorter.

 

[bunjay]

Hey just a quick question. Were the Leafs the only team to play 48 games last season?

How is that relevant? In previous seasons at the 48 game mark did the Leafs have any advantage over the rest of the league? No? Okay then, what are you having trouble understanding?


Last season tells us as much about how this team will do over 82 games as it does about how Kadri will do. If you understand why Kadri isnt likely to score 75 points this year, why dont you understand the same concept applied to the team?

Something something sample size, get it? The larger the pool of information, the less likely it is to be skewed by anomolies. Like, for example, Kadri getting 25 points in 18 games.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Again, so much revisionist history going on re: Grabovski. I suggest people go to last year's game logs, and study the ice time of players at the beginning of the season.

Check out MacArthur vs. JvR, before Lupul got hurt. Then make sure to check out Grabovski vs. Kadri, it might open your eyes a little bit. I'll spoil some of it for you - one of those players was routinely getting 18-20 minutes of playing time a night. He finished the season averaging close to 12.

Carlyle setting up Grabovski to fail? Get out of here with this ********.

Nonis brought this up during the Season Ticket Holder pres conference. Grabo was given every oppertunity to succeed and Kadri outplayed him. In the playoffs, Grabo had tonnes of ice time (not just in a checking role) and scored...zero. goals. ZERO.

if not having MacArthur means we have Raymond (speedier and more versatile), and we can have Raymond for next year too, I'd rather have Raymond. the end.

 

[The Legend]

The only trend I see are the 2 underachievers last year didn't like not getting the top 6 minutes they were accustomed to. We made the playoffs for the first time in a decade last year so I have hard time believing it was the wrong decision to not give them those minutes.

Do you think that grabo and Clarke just decided to stop playing hard under Carlyle?

 

[Daisy Jane]

How is that relevant? In previous seasons at the 48 game mark did the Leafs have any advantage over the rest of the league? No? Okay then, what are you having trouble understanding?


Last season tells us as much about how this team will do over 82 games as it does about how Kadri will do. If you understand why Kadri isnt likely to score 75 points this year, why dont you understand the same concept applied to the team?

Something something sample size, get it? The larger the pool of information, the less likely it is to be skewed by anomolies. Like, for example, Kadri getting 25 points in 18 games.

so then.
by this logic.
Montreal, and Boston weren't going to make the playoffs either. all three teams were slumping pretty horribly by the end of the regular season. (Ottawa and Philly were starting to cook by that time).

 

[The Legend]

Nonis brought this up during the Season Ticket Holder pres conference. Grabo was given every oppertunity to succeed and Kadri outplayed him. In the playoffs, Grabo had tonnes of ice time (not just in a checking role) and scored...zero. goals. ZERO.

if not having MacArthur means we have Raymond (speedier and more versatile), and we can have Raymond for next year too, I'd rather have Raymond. the end.

Grabo was one of the players that gave Boston fits because of his speed and aggression, games 2 and 5 especially.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Not skilled enough for top 6, not gritty/big enough to be an ideal 3rd line winger. I can see why Carlyle scratched him.

Exactly! Carlyle has defined roles for his players and their isn't much room for skill players who aren't skilled enough (or enough offensive minutes to go around).

Grabo, CMac and Liles are the players who have least benefited from Carlyle coming to town. All 3 players who can put up decent offence but have defensive question marks.

Nonis and Carlyle are on the same page and the acquisitions of Bolland as a Grabo replacement, Clarkson as a CMac replacement reflect this.

 

[Razz]

How is it the high road? How many people would criticize him (and grabo) for cliched hockey quotes if he wasn't honest?

Carlyle plays favorites. We know that. He got us in the playoffs last year so I can't rip the guy too much but the leash is definitely shorter.

Carlyle plays guys he trusts. The only way to get on that list is to pander to him. In my work setting, I do the same thing when I get a new manager. Find out what he/she likes and focus on that. If there's no compatibility there, then I'm off to Linked in or seeking an internal transfer.

Unfortunately for NHLers they have contracts so that's where UFA and Trades come in.

 

[Diatomic]

Clarkie is right, Randy is an idiot sometimes.

 

[frankthetank91]

The only trend I see are the 2 underachievers last year didn't like not getting the top 6 minutes they were accustomed to. We made the playoffs for the first time in a decade last year so I have hard time believing it was the wrong decision to not give them those minutes.

This. This and This.


If Randy keeps getting us into the playoffs I don't care who he plays if they deserve it. We've been a whole new team since he's gotten here we were complete **** with Wilson's non existent system and players like Grabo and Mac succesful because of the run and gun.

 

[7even]

Me too.

Player sucks in Carlyle's system. Player loses spot/scratched. Player leaves. Player cries to media.

Hope Kadri and Gardiner (they seem to be in the doghouse) are more mature than these players.

That's a pretty simplistic breakdown. Both players have new contracts with new teams, not sure what the benefit to them is to intentionally slander an ex-coach. And regardless, what does "sucking in Carlyle's system" say about these players? The popular opinion seems to be that it's a direct reflection of who they are. One Joffrey Lupul sucked in his system. He was scratched at times, and when he wasn't, he sat on the 3rd line. Lupul leaves, Lupul "cries to the media," and goes on to be a PPG player with Toronto, and everyone's favourite for new team captain around here.

Is Lupul a **** player because he didn't fit into Carlyle's system? Was not playing him the best thing Anaheim could have done? I'm going to guess "no," and Carlyle himself agrees with me. So then, why is MacArthur suddenly a crap player who sucked and has no class? Perhaps we should entertain the thought that Randy Carlyle is a polarizing figure to his players who does make mistakes instead of sticking our fingers in our ears and pointing to his cup ring and a winning record over 48 games?