Sportsnet: MacArthur sounds off on former coach Carlyle

[Pi]

Accountability has to mean for something...

Komisarek never worked out for the Leafs but he's one of the most classy people I've ever met. He puts the blame solely on himself for not being about to produce under Carlyle.

Do we not want accountability? Ron Wilson played Komisarek every game he could because he was making 4.5M.

Randy Carlyle comes along and guys like Tim Connolly, Komisarek, Lombardi, Armstrong, MacArthur, Grabovski are nowhere to be seen.

Who's right there?

The coach.

Excuses are for losers. You need coaches like Babcock, Julien, Quenville (Seabrook had one game in the playoffs where he played only ~10 minutes), Carlyle, Hitchcock if you want to win the Cup.

Not every team has Crosby and Malkin who they can just ride shotgun on and coach. Glad LACK, MacArthur, Grabovski aren't on the team.

If you want your coach to be your friend...you get Ron Wilson.
If you want your coach to hold you accountable for the mistakes you make...you get Cup winners.

 

[Crispy Crust]

I agree with Mac on this one. Going at this rate, people are going to be tired of defending Carlyle sooner than later.

Paul MacLean made the playoffs without Anderson, Karlsson, Spezza while being a player's coach. Alfie signed in Detroit, but you don't see him mouthing off MacLean (who clearly wasn't an issue anyways).

People in here didn't see playoffs for a decade and giving Carlyle far more credit than players like Reimer, McClement for playing out of their skin.

Exactly.

 

[dubplatepressure]

This is so not even news...

 

[Daisy Jane]

Wilson, Maurice and Quinn were all player's coaches, and we all frequently got to hear about the Muskoka Five and country club atmosphere from the media.

Pardon me if I'm not going to cry over the fact that we have a hard ass coach who demands accountability. This is what everyone was screaming for anyway.

exactly!

Quinn, bless him, one of my favourite coaches was totally a player coach. But even Roberts admitted that he was not an x's and o's kind of guy, it was very "go out, do what you need to do, win one for the gipper." kind of guy, which is why we never really went all the way. (this was in podcast I heard).

Maurice. great guy
where did we get? NOWHERE.

Wilson gets here, and we're playing freaking pond hockey. we were getting beat up, we weren't winning anything and it's "oh it's a hot goalie," "oh, it's a back to back game." no one was being held accountable for anything.. Where did we get. NOWHERE.

Burke was all like "no more blue and white disease!" and he brings in Carlyle who seems to me doesn't care that you are a SUPERSTAR - you are given your chance, and if you shine, you play, if you don't, you aren't, and he'll work with you. Some people can't handle it.

so now we have a GM who will demote you if you aren't performing, won't sign you if you don't make sense, will hold out if he needs to, and a Coach who will bench you, or sit you out until you get it in your head that you need to play your part/roll, whatever...

and now we're getting the whole "well, why don't we have nicer coaches/management?"

 

[zeke]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...hur-sounds-off-on-former-coach-randy-carlyle/

Funny part is the people that are complaining are the guys that got their spot stolen by other players.

 

[Damisoph]

Well, that Sport Chek undercover thing he did was pretty funny so...we've always got that.

 

[Pi]

you know you made a mistake... and when you have people hammering it non-stop... it's annoying and makes u perform WORSE


that is his argument, learn to read

He isn't the type of player who can hang in this market then...

You're going to get criticized if you play for the Leafs, by the coach, by the media, by the fans. If you can't handle it, I hear Florida is nice at all times of the year.

 

[ACC1224]

Seems like the ones who can play within a system have no issues with Carlyle. Good riddance to the others.

 

[Lebanese Leaf]

I have yet to hear Carlyle trash his players to the media. That is more than I can say about Ron Wilson, who Macarthur seems to love.

This to me is just a case of an average player who put up career highs in a free for all system on a bad team, and was unable to handle the heat when a coach came in with accountability and a system. Carlyle revealed Macarthur for what he really is... an average winger who does nothing special and doesn't belong on a competitive team.

 

[Sonofamitch]

It's called taking the high road.

Something Komi did really well. I wish he worked out in toronto. He's a hell of a guy.

 

[Quares27]

So what I mainly gathered from that is he can't take criticism and it negatively affected his game? doesn't sound like the type of player you'd want on your team. Grabovski didn't like the fact that he wasn't used an an offensive role but he was able to take criticism and play as hard as he could the entire year despite that criticism. Big difference between the 2 players.

 

[Jot]

Without Carlyle our team is lost.

 

[bunjay]

Everyone had enough of the Ronnie Wilson country club atmosphere around here...and the results speak for themselves. How are you able to speak with such certainty about how RC treated certain players? I mean, all we get to hear is one side of the story, how do you truly know what's going on in that dressing room?

The results dont actually speak for themselves. The Leafs are still a mostly inept team defensively, but now have goalies better than Raycroft, Toskala, Giguere, or Gustavsson. It's not a coincidence that none of them are starting goalies in the NHL anymore. Ron Wilson had years during which the team would have easily made the playoffs if the season ended at 48 games.

To an objective observer Carlyle has yet to prove anything with this team. In his short time here he's done a number of things that were almost universally criticized here. Using Kostka and then Holzer as first pairing defensemen for so many games. Using Grabovski on an offense-less shutdown line. Using stone-handed defensemen in a shootout over skilled forwards. Bizarre player management on the PP (Bozak, Gardiner, Franson). What most here see as over-using Phaneuf to the point of exhaustion (debatable when you look at Phaneufs minutes compared to other #1 d-men, but still a constant complaint on this forum). The trend we saw last year of terrible first period performances which has so far continued at some point gets traced back to the coach.

It's obvious that Carlyle is a major hardass. Coaches like that may get success out of their team but will eventually wear out their welcome. As Carlyle himself did in Anaheim. Some people who are fans of both Carlyle and Kadri may start to change their minds if the latter has a cold streak and starts getting the Grabovski treatment because of it.

 

[atleastimnotahabsfan]

Randy Carlyle is the best coach for the team right now. He may not be perfect but he's been working. Until the players start tuning him out or we are not seeing improvement, he should be our coach.

 

[Gutchecktime]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...hur-sounds-off-on-former-coach-randy-carlyle/

Funny part is the people that are complaining are the guys that got their spot stolen by other players.

This. So much this.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Seems like the ones who can play within a system have no issues with Carlyle. Good riddance to the others.

yeup.

I have yet to hear Carlyle trash his players to the media. That is more than I can say about Ron Wilson, who Macarthur seems to love.

This to me is just a case of an average player who put up career highs in a free for all system on a bad team, and was unable to handle the heat when a coach came in with accountability and a system. Carlyle revealed Macarthur for what he really is... an average winger who does nothing special and doesn't belong on a competitive team.

Bingo.

and I think something we're going to have to get used to - I don't think we have "lines" perse. well we have our fourth of "we're going to beat you up-pers." but from first to third? it's fluid, to which I think it needs to be when you don't have a team of MegaSuperStars. but so many people get wrapped up in first/second/third, etc and I think it's clear that someone like Kadri may be our 2nd liner but he'll get third line minutes if needed, and Bolland slides up. or if Kadri becomes on FIRE he'll slide up to first, and Bozak slides down. winger match ups will change. and all of that equals to key systems play and if people can't do it,.... (shrug).

 

[Damisoph]

The results dont actually speak for themselves. The Leafs are still a mostly inept team defensively, but now have goalies better than Raycroft, Toskala, Giguere, or Gustavsson. It's not a coincidence that none of them are starting goalies in the NHL anymore. Ron Wilson had years during which the team would have easily made the playoffs if the season ended at 48 games.

To an objective observer Carlyle has yet to prove anything with this team. In his short time here he's done a number of things that were almost universally criticized here. Using Kostka and then Holzer as first pairing defensemen for so many games. Using Grabovski on an offense-less shutdown line. Using stone-handed defensemen in a shootout over skilled forwards. Bizarre player management on the PP (Bozak, Gardiner, Franson).

It's obvious that Carlyle is a major hardass. Coaches like that may get success out of their team but will eventually wear out their welcome. As Carlyle himself did in Anaheim. Some people who are fans of both Carlyle and Kadri may start to change their minds if the latter has a cold streak and start getting the Grabovski treatment because of it.

You know what they say about ifs and buts.

One thing you're right about, Carlyle's schtick will wear out in a couple years.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Something Komi did really well. I wish he worked out in toronto. He's a hell of a guy.

no word of a lie - i really wish he did too, because I feel like he's what our backend is missing.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

I think what Mac said had some merit, Carlye does have a history of being a "drill sergent" and a "hard ass" with his players espically when it comes to his intense practices and his call outs. That being said I think the problem is Mac was used to having Wilson as a coach one who was more "buddy buddy" with his players and just let them do what they want without structure, and I feel it was a big adjustment for him to go from that to a very tight knit ship. Not knocking Carlyle because he's a successful coach who has a winning record everywhere he goes, clearly there is a reason for it and whatever his tactics are they work. Some people mesh well with others, others clash... in this case it was a clash of personalities, nobodys the bad guy here just different traits are clashing, its for the best both have parted ways.

 

[Razz]

The results dont actually speak for themselves. The Leafs are still a mostly inept team defensively, but now have goalies better than Raycroft, Toskala, Giguere, or Gustavsson. It's not a coincidence that none of them are starting goalies in the NHL anymore. Ron Wilson had years during which the team would have easily made the playoffs if the season ended at 48 games.

To an objective observer Carlyle has yet to prove anything with this team. In his short time here he's done a number of things that were almost universally criticized here. Using Kostka and then Holzer as first pairing defensemen for so many games. Using Grabovski on an offense-less shutdown line. Using stone-handed defensemen in a shootout over skilled forwards. Bizarre player management on the PP (Bozak, Gardiner, Franson).

It's obvious that Carlyle is a major hardass. Coaches like that may get success out of their team but will eventually wear out their welcome. As Carlyle himself did in Anaheim. Some people who are fans of both Carlyle and Kadri may start to change their minds if the latter has a cold streak and start getting the Grabovski treatment because of it.

Yeah clearly Carlyle is a major hardass and is big on personal accoutability.

I would argue that ALL coaches eventually wear out their welcome. I guarantee you when **** hit the fan in Toronto under Wilson, the players were looking around wondering why there was no structure or penalty for lax play and crappy players kept getting in the lineup despite the lack of performance. If I were a hard working player, that'd drive me mad.

These guys are pros and want to win and not everyone works under all management styles. Everyone has a different personality and they have to work together, the key is to get the right coach for the right group.

The Leafs needed a kick in the ass, and they turned it around when it happened. So far anyway.

 

[bunjay]

You know what they say about ifs and buts.

Sure I do. But the Leafs various places in the standings about halfway through seasons under Wilson are a matter of record. No hypotheticals here, Carlyle got the benefit of a shortened season and Wilson did not. Wilsons teams had some excellent records before the classic second half collapses, and that was with some of the worst goaltending the Leafs have ever had. Carlyle has not proven anything yet, real judgement of what hes done with this team shouldnt even start until this season is over.

 

[theIceWookie]

Exactly.

Lupul didn't like Carlyle in Anaheim yet he signs a 5 year deal.

**** happens, some can get over it, others cant.


Yeah and then theres other guys like Bobby Ryan praising Carlyle about how he made him into a much better player, it can go both ways, take the blinders off bud.

It sort of illuminates a distrubing trend by Carlyle, albeit it one that can and does happen with every coach.

When Lupul was in Anaheim, Carlyle literally refused to try him on the LW. Now that can be explained as having depth at that position, but still it showed that Carlyle got set in his ways and wouldn't even consider trying a player in another position after the player asked if it would be possible.

But whatever, Carlyle admitted he was wrong (speculate on whether or not he meant it, since Lupul had already broken out and Carlyle had little choice but I digress). No problem right?

But then he starts to do the same thing with Grabo.

It's a little concerning because it's looking like he has similar type stubborness with Gardiner and Kadri. That concerns me a lot.

 

[Raging Bull]

The Leafs didn't offer him a contract, yet he's making it seem like he's the one who wanted to part ways.

 

[Sundinisagod]

It didn't take long for Ottawa to rub off on C-Mac...already forgot how to stay classy.

Starting to feel we might actually have a great coach for a change...

 

[Hyperglide]

Something Komi did really well. I wish he worked out in toronto. He's a hell of a guy.

Agreed Komi is a pro, Mac obviously isn't. I mean I even liked Mac he seemed like such a nice guy in interviews and a good teammate but man the guy just didn't have a proper competitive fire and understood what it takes to win a hockey game and couldn't see that from the coaches perspective. He just wanted to get his instead of thinking about the team.