Series Discussion: (M1) Washington Capitals vs (WC1) Columbus Blue Jackets

[trick9]

You are the one who said he's been consistently strong in the playoffs. My point is, if you're the Caps, who gives a **** about RS stats. The playoffs are the mountain that needs climbing and a strong proven player is worth bucks. That's my view, anyway.

They are no longer the powerhouse that can afford their stars playing half-assed in the regular season, let alone the #1D expected to play 25-30 minutes every night. You need to make the Playoffs first.

I said his past Playoff performances have been solid and meant as in better than his regular season efforts. Worthy of being paid that much? Propably few times but hardly year after year.

 

[g00n]

Big $ for 74 means pp1 time imo

 

[Brian23]

I generally don't love 74 on the PP. I think inineed short spurts the last few games Orlov has shown more fire and get up warranting time, butaybe the lacksadasical meandering of 74 has merit. I still think Carlson brings enough to warrant a payday, I'm just not sure it's North of 7 worth.

 

[trick9]

Big $ for 74 means pp1 time imo

Every coach has different PP setup.

Either way that kind of depends on the rest of your defense. With Carlson making somewhat close to 7.5, they will have nearly 19 tied to him, Niskanen and Orlov. That doesn't leave much for the rest of the defense (Just 4 playoff teams are spending 25+ on defense), unless you want to take money away from the forwards. Plenty of coaches would prefer Carlson playing more ES and have someone else pass the puck to Ovechkin. Does that hurt the PP? Depends on who it is but it hasn't hurt it in the past.

That being said that's not the deal-breaker for me. Even if he stayed on the PP1 long-term, i don't see him repeating the season he's having that many times in the future, and that is why i don't want to give him contract that long.

 

[RandyHolt]

I generally don't love 74 on the PP. I think inineed short spurts the last few games Orlov has shown more fire and get up warranting time, butaybe the lacksadasical meandering of 74 has merit. I still think Carlson brings enough to warrant a payday, I'm just not sure it's North of 7 worth.

I wanted more PP love for Orlov too. I have a little rule. As a coach you need to find a way to get your strong offensive / weaker D guys, PP time. More offensive zone time, less defensive zone time. Anyways, be in the game something. Carlson carries a big load in the D zone and do we really need him padding his stats inflating his value on the PP? I think he leads the entire NHL in PPPP.

 

[Calicaps]

I wanted more PP love for Orlov too. I have a little rule. As a coach you need to find a way to get your strong offensive / weaker D guys, PP time. More offensive zone time, less defensive zone time. Anyways, be in the game something. Carlson carries a big load in the D zone and do we really need him padding his stats inflating his value on the PP? I think he leads the entire NHL in PPPP.

This would seem to suggest that yes we do need him on the PP. Also Orlov has been terribad. He's done nothing to earn more ice.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Hmmm shoulder or elbow scope maybe?

I missed the play... how was he hurt?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

This would seem to suggest that yes we do need him on the PP. Also Orlov has been terribad. He's done nothing to earn more ice.

The idea of Orlov and Ovy on the PP point scares me in the short handed goal way...

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I wanted more PP love for Orlov too. I have a little rule. As a coach you need to find a way to get your strong offensive / weaker D guys, PP time. More offensive zone time, less defensive zone time. Anyways, be in the game something. Carlson carries a big load in the D zone and do we really need him padding his stats inflating his value on the PP? I think he leads the entire NHL in PPPP.

He’s playing like a demotee not the opposite.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

The idea of Orlov and Ovy on the PP point scares me in the short handed goal way...

I keep hoping Orlov will hold back on offense and throw more hip checks and focus on defense. I'm afraid that is too late now, but man can he do those classic checks.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Some do more than others.

I disagree with your point. There has been several guys on the Carlson spot in the PP and it's always been fine. Even better in the past without him. He's not really an integral part of the PP, IMO. He has a big shot but he misses the target a lot, and most teams are happier letting him take the shot rather than have Backstrom or Kuznetsov work half-wall or Ovechkin taking a shot from the other side. I wouldn't be shocked if the next coach (or any coach in the future) wanted to take him off the PP1 to cut his ice-time or get him on the ice more ES. That will result in his production dipping a lot.

Okay, if you feel that way: How many years in the past has Carlson been worth, let's say 7.5m AAV for example?

For me the answer is one, and it's this season. He's earned his payday for a while and i would gladly give it to him short-term. In my eyes 1 great year is just not worthy of being paid for 8 more. It's risky as hell. How many seasons like this he needs for that 7-8 year contract to be considered good? I'd say atleast 4. What about great? I'd say 6.

Is that realistic? I don't see it.

This is how it’s going to be from here on out for a few guys in the room. All the player does is play on a bargain deal for 3 years, goes out and puts up when it’s that or shut up time, but noooooo too risky to sign him to the retirement contract he’s fairly earned.

74 is not irreplaceable on the PP, but I sure like him back there in a 2-way sense as long as Ovy is on the point coughing up pucks like he’s prone to do.

Carlson is a solid 1a player in the league....maybe he’s 20 on that top guys list, but he’s well above our next best guy.

Sign him and be happy the position is locked down for at least the first 5 years of his deal.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I keep hoping Orlov will hold back on offense and throw more hip checks and focus on defense. I'm afraid that is too late now, but man can he do those classic checks.

He’s got a really nice physical edge. I’d like to see more Kasparitus from him!

 

[IafrateOvie34]

He’s got a really nice physical edge. I’d like to see more Kasparitus from him!

If he can be that type of player, he'll be a fan favorite for years. Man that guy killed us in 93.

 

[RandyHolt]

He’s playing like a demotee not the opposite.

Does anyone besides us look past all those cough PP assists? You know the Bus fans are probably saying he should be in the Norris talk more than we are.

 

[Brian23]

This is how it’s going to be from here on out for a few guys in the room. All the player does is play on a bargain deal for 3 years, goes out and puts up when it’s that or shut up time, but noooooo too risky to sign him to the retirement contract he’s fairly earned.

74 is not irreplaceable on the PP, but I sure like him back there in a 2-way sense as long as Ovy is on the point coughing up pucks like he’s prone to do.

Carlson is a solid 1a player in the league....maybe he’s 20 on that top guys list, but he’s well above our next best guy.

Sign him and be happy the position is locked down for at least the first 5 years of his deal.

The issue becomes what if signing Carlson means we lose Wilson? Or we lose Kempney? Or down the line we can't resign Vrana or Dre or we have to move Oshie or Eller?

His contract isn't in a vacuum and, while it's not our money, as a fan you have to wonder what happens if you just start throwing money around willy nilly. Kuznetsov has been great, I'm still reserved about his contract and what it might mean for us long term, and that's with loving Kuzya.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The issue becomes what if signing Carlson means we lose Wilson? Or we lose Kempney? Or down the line we can't resign Vrana or Dre or we have to move Oshie or Eller?

His contract isn't in a vacuum and, while it's not our money, as a fan you have to wonder what happens if you just start throwing money around willy nilly. Kuznetsov has been great, I'm still reserved about his contract and what it might mean for us long term, and that's with loving Kuzya.

A competent GM shouldn't let that happen. Even so, some on that list are hardly irreplaceable.

 

[Brian23]

A competent GM shouldn't let that happen. Even so, some on that list are hardly irreplaceable.

So a competent GM has a line in the sand number he won't cross for a player, as GMBM has said he has for Carlson. I'm glad you agree with me.

 

[trick9]

This is how it’s going to be from here on out for a few guys in the room. All the player does is play on a bargain deal for 3 years, goes out and puts up when it’s that or shut up time, but noooooo too risky to sign him to the retirement contract he’s fairly earned.

74 is not irreplaceable on the PP, but I sure like him back there in a 2-way sense as long as Ovy is on the point coughing up pucks like he’s prone to do.

Carlson is a solid 1a player in the league....maybe he’s 20 on that top guys list, but he’s well above our next best guy.

Sign him and be happy the position is locked down for at least the first 5 years of his deal.

This is the part we disagree on.

1 great year isn't earning 8-year pay day from me. I would give him that kind of money short-term, but he has not earned 7 or 8-year contract at that money in my eyes.

 

[ovikovy817]

You need a rhd to play with Ovi on pp.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Hmmm shoulder or elbow scope maybe?

I missed the play... how was he hurt?

I missed the play to but I don’t think any shoulder surgery is minor. A lot of stuff going on in a shoulder. Same with anything abdominal I’d suspect. Must be wrist, elbow or a broken digit.

 

[Raikkonen]

Wrist surgery wouldn't be minor with such a small rehabilitation period.

And then - who needs elbows anyway?

 

[maacoshark]

You need a rhd to play with Ovi on pp.

Yes. That's why Orlov doesn't get much pp time. To fit Orlov on the top pp they would have to change the pp setup.

 

[maacoshark]

The issue becomes what if signing Carlson means we lose Wilson? Or we lose Kempney? Or down the line we can't resign Vrana or Dre or we have to move Oshie or Eller?

His contract isn't in a vacuum and, while it's not our money, as a fan you have to wonder what happens if you just start throwing money around willy nilly. Kuznetsov has been great, I'm still reserved about his contract and what it might mean for us long term, and that's with loving Kuzya.

If we can move contracts like Orpik and Burakovsky that will free up some space. We could move Connollys contract too.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

This is the part we disagree on.

1 great year isn't earning 8-year pay day from me. I would give him that kind of money short-term, but he has not earned 7 or 8-year contract at that money in my eyes.

Well that’s where you’re wrong and the market will prove that out.

 

[Empty Goal Net]

Well that’s where you’re wrong and the market will prove that out.

1. The market isn't always correct (see: Redden, Wade (among others))
2. Someone will overpay
3. What Player X gets as an UFA isn't necessary what that player is worth to his former team.

All that said, for the Caps, I think anything north of $7.5m (especially for 8 yrs) will prove regrettable before the contract is half over. I'd rather see a sign-and-trade if he wants anything near 8x8.