Series Discussion: (M1) Washington Capitals vs (WC1) Carolina Hurricanes, Category 2

[twabby]

IMO the dilemma going forward is properly balancing the need for fresh blood and energy with giving some players the benefit of the doubt that they'll come back hungrier and better after a longer summer. That goes mostly for Holtby & Niskanen...and I don't know how that balances out altogether. Maybe if Samsonov has a big playoff run it becomes easier to turn it over to him. Niskanen is still a guy that plays an awful lot of minutes and Jensen didn't begin to look like an equal replacement. But Niskanen has also probably peaked as a player. Beware the downswing. They're going to need better, faster and more effective depth and it's not going to be easy filling the team out in the short-term. Mahoney needs to pick it up again.

I think the downswing is in full effect with Niskanen, unfortunately. It may have been prompted by the injury he sustained last year but either way it's not reasonable to assume any sort of bounceback year from him. Not saying they should look to get rid of him, but I think if they are looking to compete they are going to need to start reducing Niskanen's minutes, preferably using him in a similar role as Orpik has been the past few seasons. I think it's pretty clear after this series that Orlov is still capable of bringing it, but he's certainly not capable of carrying Niskanen. Not sure where that leaves Jensen because as you mentioned he was slightly disappointing and I'm not sure he can be counted on in a top-4 role.

I have no idea what to do with Holtby. It's great to have a guy who is never injured and you know is capable of playing 60+ games a season if needed, but despite a good postseason last year he's had disappointing postseasons this year and in 2017, and his past two regular seasons have been average at best. You obviously sign him if a good deal is there but if he's looking for a 7 or 8 year deal it's going to be tough to justify it. Ideally this is why they decided to draft Samsonov so they could avoid overpaying for a 30 year old goalie but I never really know how to project goaltenders, even if they are very good in the AHL (and Samsonov by all accounts has been great after a slow start).

 

[strungout]

I really hope Oshie tunes up that f***er that cross checked him next year at some point. Peice of shit.

 

[QuadrupleDeke]

Couple of quick thoughts. The last year was great. The relief of shedding the choker label allowed me to enjoy the team.

It was just a respite though. They have returned to the choker team they were and with next playoffs the anxiety and bad feelings will return.

I won't enjoy that. With that in mind I am going to give up being an active fan. I am not going back to the old ways. I have enjoyed sparring here and may miss that. Losing playoff series like this, I won't miss.

Good night and good luck.

I will respond to messages but this is my last post in the forum.

Take care

At least go out in a blaze of glory, with a permaban-worthy post.

 

[Red Dread]

Everyone apart from the first line (+ maybe Hagelin, Burakovsky (and others I'm probably missing)) and Holtby, played lazy and tired. Ultimately, that's on them. But even for those that played well, it seemed we couldn't make a breakout or hold a forecheck for ****. That's on the coaching staff. Whenever the Canes had the puck, they felt dangerous because they had us beat strategically and wanted the wins more. They earned it.

To be fair to Reirden and co., these are the exact same complaints everyone rightfully had about the Caps prior to 2018. I say this as someone biased towards Trotz because of last year + his work against the Pens this year. So, I don't know, they could turn it around. I honestly am not sure right now what needs to change. Personnel wise, no one struck me as a player that made me say "oh ****, we need to get rid of that guy."

Some positives:
1) We won the Cup last year, that's still fresh.
2) Pens got swept and we have a completely different playoff bracket in general this year.
3) The Kings and Hawks didn't win their Cups back to back across multiple years. Hopefully the Caps can come back and turn it around next year with this added rest.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Last years team was a mess early and they fixed it. They were consistently good the second half and playoffs. Most games they lost they still played well. This year we looked good for a period and then nothing. In the playoffs in was jeckle and hyde. I don’t know how anyone can watch both teams and say they were the same because they weren’t. And yes hockey has breaks, but I don’t buy the “winning is luck” crap some talk about in here. Last year we played well and won, this year we played worse and lost, it’s simple. Time to evaluate and fix for next year

I think you're selectively remembering some things. The Caps this year had the most points in the league (or very close to it) after the ASG. Post-TDL they looked every bit as good if not better than the team last year. And you can not buy that luck has a ton to do with winning in the NHL playoffs but the data proves it to be true (check out the book, The Success Equation, if you're interested). Also you're right, they weren't the same this year in the playoffs. This year they were playing without Oshie, Kempny, and a healthy Djoos.

 

[hb12xchamps]

The annual closet trolls now coming out of the wood work to bash Ovechkin. Tale as old as time

 

[crazy8888]

Couple of quick thoughts. The last year was great. The relief of shedding the choker label allowed me to enjoy the team.

It was just a respite though. They have returned to the choker team they were and with next playoffs the anxiety and bad feelings will return.

I won't enjoy that. With that in mind I am going to give up being an active fan. I am not going back to the old ways. I have enjoyed sparring here and may miss that. Losing playoff series like this, I won't miss.

Good night and good luck.

I will respond to messages but this is my last post in the forum.

Take care

I personally enjoy your input. So take the summer to chilax and get away from hockey. Come back next season. Everyone will have a fresh start.
Yes they did disappoint this year but you cant just forget about what they did last year. Millions of fans out there of teams that either never won or did not win for many years. We got it better then a lot of other people, by far!!! Plus we didint flame out like lets say Tampa, we put of a fight even though the stars were not lining up for us this year. I dont think having Kempny and Oshie would have made a difference. Maybe in first round but we were not going all the way this year. I personally put most of the blame on the coaching. I will never understand why #18 got a sweater for 7 games. I probably could done as much as he did out there. It is what it is. We still Champs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

The annual closet trolls now coming out of the wood work to bash Ovechkin. Tale as old as time

Well, if it's any solace, they look like fools. 4 goals + 5 assists in 7 games and he was the best player in the series for either team this year. Not his fault his goalie shit the bed in G7 or that the rest of the team never came close to matching his level of give-a-shit.

 

[strungout]

The annual closet trolls now coming out of the wood work to bash Ovechkin. Tale as old as time

I seriously don’t know how anyone can say anything negative about the guy. That was like one of the best series he’s even had from an all around standpoint.

 

[895]

This series enforced for me one thing:

Ovechkin is the franchise and the franchise is Ovechkin.

Everyone else is a passenger. Including Backstrom and Kuznetsov.

Get this man another cup and the goal record and I wont ask for anything more.

 

[Corby78]

I think you're selectively remembering some things. The Caps this year had the most points in the league (or very close to it) after the ASG. Post-TDL they looked every bit as good if not better than the team last year. And you can not buy that luck has a ton to do with winning in the NHL playoffs but the data proves it to be true (check out the book, The Success Equation, if you're interested). Also you're right, they weren't the same this year in the playoffs. This year they were playing without Oshie, Kempny, and a healthy Djoos.

The injuries are valid, we did not have the problem last year. And no I don't buy luck over a 7 game series and 4 rounds of playoffs. What I buy is that the NHL has a much higher level of parity than say the NBA where its not existent. Lets be honest, even with our better roster, it only got us what 5 more points in the regular season over Carolina? Yes luck happens in games, but the team who plays better usually win, and almost always wins a series. Carolina played better than us, it wasn't a fluke.

Looking at our record from this year and last year doesn't tell me the whole story. We were playing better hockey. Now this is my opinion, but I felt we won a lot of games where we just got by on talent and didn't play a consistent game. I respect your opinion, but I didn't think we came into this playoffs as strong as last year. Then add injuries (as you stated) some poor coaching decisions, and here we are. The parity around the league is to strong to screw around and mess things up. Ovie/Backstrom alone doesn't buy you a series.

 

[hb12xchamps]

I seriously don’t know how anyone can say anything negative about the guy. That was like one of the best series he’s even had from an all around standpoint.

It’s mostly just bitter Penguins fans having to boost themselves up since Sid had a whopping 1 point in route to being swept

 

[Corby78]

The annual closet trolls now coming out of the wood work to bash Ovechkin. Tale as old as time

Anyone bashing Ovie has an agenda or doesn't know anything. He was the best player on both teams.

 

[third man in]

Had zero problems with 8-19-43 in this series. Thought 65 was pretty good, otherwise everyone else left something on the table.

 

[John Price]

Still rehabbing from last night, game didn't end until around midnight and didn't get home until 1 am

Not mad, just disappointed. But you could tell at the game something was off. The way they were playing was not championship hockey. Even if they had won, Islanders woulda beat em.

Regather and try again next year.

 

[Sam Spade]

This series enforced for me one thing:

Ovechkin is the franchise and the franchise is Ovechkin.

Everyone else is a passenger. Including Backstrom and Kuznetsov.

Get this man another cup and the goal record and I wont ask for anything more.

Is that all?

 

[Lindemann]

I wouldn’t be surprised if GMBM made some trades to clear up some cap and change a little

Niski makes the most sense.

I think we should go get Erik Karlsson if that’s the case

 

[Khomutov]

Who was good: Ovechkin, Backstrom, Wilson, Oshie
Bad: Kuznetsov, Vrana

 

[BigBucketHolly]

"We'll always have Paris."

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

The injuries are valid, we did not have the problem last year. And no I don't buy luck over a 7 game series and 4 rounds of playoffs. What I buy is that the NHL has a much higher level of parity than say the NBA where its not existent. Lets be honest, even with our better roster, it only got us what 5 more points in the regular season over Carolina? Yes luck happens in games, but the team who plays better usually win, and almost always wins a series. Carolina played better than us, it wasn't a fluke.

Looking at our record from this year and last year doesn't tell me the whole story. We were playing better hockey. Now this is my opinion, but I felt we won a lot of games where we just got by on talent and didn't play a consistent game. I respect your opinion, but I didn't think we came into this playoffs as strong as last year. Then add injuries (as you stated) some poor coaching decisions, and here we are. The parity around the league is to strong to screw around and mess things up. Ovie/Backstrom alone doesn't buy you a series.

I mean, I don't think we disagree too terribly on this. I posted in G1 and G2 that they didn't have the same zip or cohesion even when they were winning. I posted later in the series that something didn't feel quite right. Last year the team kept getting stronger and stronger as the series went on and I thought G5 might have been the flashpoint for this year when that happened but there was never the same aura about this team. And look, that's really hard to do. Anyone who has played sports at a competitive level knows it's hard to get everything to click at the right time which is why winning is hard. If people and coaches could do their best whenever they felt like it then the most talented team would always win.

I think it boils down to a bit of fatigue, some key injuries, a few questionable coaching decisions, and an average (at best) performance in net. That's the margin of error between winning and losing in this sport. The Canes were a step ahead and played like they hadn't been in the playoffs in a decade and they ultimately deserved to come out on top.

 

[RandyHolt]

I am still miffed that Todd was too scared to play Dowd and DSP in OT.

But not afraid of Stephenson, who brought nothing this series. Stephenson had a near breakaway in the 2nd IIRC, and had just gained a step on the D, and then pulled up and put on his passing hat. Of course he is no passer, and there was no one to pass to. His game is speed speed speed. Slamming on the brakes is not his ticket to score. A good pass in game 7s, is also throwing pucks at the net, like Williams did on the series winner.

It's a miracle we even survived to the 2nd OT. Ovi was clearly gassed. Teuvo was skating circles around us. In part because of that, I am not down on Holts questionable goals allowed. We had a few HQ chances right around the Carolina net, including Willy putting his passing hat on and not roofing one instead passing to a marked Backstrom. Mrazek almost kicked that in, but Willy should have shot there.

There is something to be said about being too cute, and passing when we should shoot. I love a good pass / tap in goal, but hate heavily telegraphing pass when your passing options don't exist, and hoping on materializes.

 

[foundhockey]

I hope Barry never wins another anything just so I don't have to listen to folks around here pine.

Honestly, I think CBJ has it in the bag.

 

[Blades of Steel]

I seriously don’t know how anyone can say anything negative about the guy. That was like one of the best series he’s even had from an all around standpoint.

honestly if it werent for ovie/backy we would've been swept

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I think the downswing is in full effect with Niskanen, unfortunately. It may have been prompted by the injury he sustained last year but either way it's not reasonable to assume any sort of bounceback year from him. Not saying they should look to get rid of him, but I think if they are looking to compete they are going to need to start reducing Niskanen's minutes, preferably using him in a similar role as Orpik has been the past few seasons. I think it's pretty clear after this series that Orlov is still capable of bringing it, but he's certainly not capable of carrying Niskanen. Not sure where that leaves Jensen because as you mentioned he was slightly disappointing and I'm not sure he can be counted on in a top-4 role.

I have no idea what to do with Holtby. It's great to have a guy who is never injured and you know is capable of playing 60+ games a season if needed, but despite a good postseason last year he's had disappointing postseasons this year and in 2017, and his past two regular seasons have been average at best. You obviously sign him if a good deal is there but if he's looking for a 7 or 8 year deal it's going to be tough to justify it. Ideally this is why they decided to draft Samsonov so they could avoid overpaying for a 30 year old goalie but I never really know how to project goaltenders, even if they are very good in the AHL (and Samsonov by all accounts has been great after a slow start).

So let’s be clear, you see no way Niskanen rebounds after a down year. At 32, he’s done as a top-4 NHL defender?

 

[Blades of Steel]

not that it's an excuse or anything because other teams have done it and gone back to back but..

The Caps were wore out. They played a lot of hockey over the past few years and partied pretty hard this summer on top of playing to the finals. They were gassed before the TDL and needed the break, it paid off for a few games but by the time the playoffs came back around, they looked meh again. I saw a lot of standing around and just going through the motions, i did not see the high pace, quick thinking, heavy fore-checking like last playoffs. You add that all up and also you have to consider some guys may have some nagging injuries, mentally tired and some just didn't perform and you have yourself a playoff exit.

Let's not blow this thing up, I think a couple tweaks and some rest are in order for this team.