Luc Bourdon the next Dion Phaneuf?

[Transported Upstater]

Come on, Flames fans like you have been "jerking off" Phaneuf for the better part of two years now, why can't you let Canucks fans have their fun.

 

[MrMastodonFarm*]

Come on, Flames fans like you have been "jerking off" Phaneuf for the better part of two years now, why can't you let Canucks fans have their fun.

Not taking anything away from Bourdon or Canucks fans, it's just the nature of the beast. Even I was a little sick of the Phaneuf talk around here.

I'm a big Bourdon fan, but if he is half of what Phaneuf is it's going to get a little tiresome here.

 

[Transported Upstater]

Not taking anything away from Bourdon or Canucks fans, it's just the nature of the beast. Even I was a little sick of the Phaneuf talk around here.

I'm a big Bourdon fan, but if he is half of what Phaneuf is it's going to get a little tiresome here.

We should consider ourselves lucky, you should know better on how bad it can get




What if Sidney Crosby was from Montreal (and his name was Pierre-Luc Crosbeau or something) and the Habs got the #1 pick?

Or if Crosby was from Toronto and the Leafs got the #1?

 

[xander]

Well if we're gonna start jerking off bourdon over 7 pts in 5 games I think we better offer marc staal the proverbial coitus, considering that he's scored 12 pts in 9 games and leads OHL defensemen.


or maybe this is all alittle premature...

 

[Transported Upstater]

Well if we're gonna start jerking off bourdon over 7 pts in 5 games I think we better offer marc staal the proverbial coitus, considering that he's scored 12 pts in 9 games and leads OHL defensemen.


or maybe this is all alittle premature...

HAHAHAHAHA

 

[NFITO]

Well if we're gonna start jerking off bourdon over 7 pts in 5 games I think we better offer marc staal the proverbial coitus, considering that he's scored 12 pts in 9 games and leads OHL defensemen.


or maybe this is all alittle premature...

well 7 pts in 5 games is a better PPG than 12 pts in 9 games....

also (and I don't know the stats around this, but since it was brought up with Bourdon earlier in the thread), how is the rest of his game? how many hits does he have so far? how close to NHL ready does he look?

I think this is a much better comparison though than Phaneuf and Bourdon... at least both these guys are the same age, from the same draft, and both were rated to go in the top half of the 1st round.

 

[xander]

well 7 pts in 5 games is a better PPG than 12 pts in 9 games....

also (and I don't know the stats around this, but since it was brought up with Bourdon earlier in the thread), how is the rest of his game? how many hits does he have so far? how close to NHL ready does he look?

I think this is a much better comparison though than Phaneuf and Bourdon... at least both these guys are the same age, from the same draft, and both were rated to go in the top half of the 1st round.

My point isn't that heaps of praise should be layed on staal, but rather that there are plenty of defensemen from the 2006 draft who are off to good starts. staal played very well in camp and is now leading OHL defensemen in points. And by all acounts both Jack Johnson and Brian Lee have looked extreemly good so far in the NCAA. What seperates Bourdon from these three guys? It's way to early to start comparing any of these guys to Phaneuf, who had a tremendous 2 years after he was drafted.

You are right in saying that we should be comparing guys to other guys in there own draft class. We should be looking at bourdon in context with staal, lee and johnson, rather than guys 2 years advanced from him.

 

[Bileur]

They aren't even close. Only two years after the 2003 draft here is what some prospects are doing this year.

This is unheard of...that doesn't include Fritsche and Bergeron in the 2nd.

Eaves 1 a in 2 games for the sens. He's looking waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy better than he did in the rookie tournament or in the pre-season. He just gets buried in our depth. Injuries are helping out though.

 

[Transported Upstater]

Eaves 1 a in 2 games for the sens. He's looking waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy better than he did in the rookie tournament or in the pre-season. He just gets buried in our depth. Injuries are helping out though.

How's Brandon Bochenski doing? Any better?

 

[Bileur]

How's Brandon Bochenski doing? Any better?

1g 2a in 5 games,14 shots and +3. I think he'll do better now that he "broke the ice".

 

[MXD]

Hummmm....

Dion Phaneuf is like a slightly downgraded mix of Scott Stevens and Kevin Hatcher. (my post about "not being Scott Stevens should have been red like this)

Luc Bourdon is more of a talented Igor Ulanov. The problem is that I can't find whether the key word here is "talented" or "Igor-Ulanov".

 

[Attica]

I should know better to insult Phaneuf but Bourdon is very much like him--both are very good defense prospects who are being grossly overhyped by their respective team's fanbases. Phaneuf has already been written in by many as the Flames #1 defender after a good week or so and it appears that Canucks fans are willing to do the same for Bourdon.

Both are very nice prospects, neither is as good as really elite defense prospects like Jack Johnson and Ryan Suter.

I'm sorry, but Phaneuf is better than both suter and Johnson, the vote is still out on Bourdon.

Yeah, this could be sarcasm, but if it's not, you're completely off your rocker.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Hummmm....

Dion Phaneuf is like a slightly downgraded mix of Scott Stevens and Kevin Hatcher. (my post about "not being Scott Stevens should have been red like this)

Luc Bourdon is more of an Igor Ulanov.

 

[Attica]

Crosby > Fleury
Ryan < Staal
Johnson = Horton (I think they are equal)
Pouliot < Zherdev
Price < Vanek
Brule < Michalek (Michalek is better)
Skille < Suter
Setoguchi = Coburn
Lee < Phaneuf
Bourdon > Kostitsyn

Okay well lets compare

In my opinion

6 in 2003 are better
2 are equal
2 in 2005 are better

yeah, you're really just BSing to support your homerism.

Brule started in the NHL this year, no way is Michalek better than him.

Suter over Skille is a tough one to judge, totally different players, not fair to say one is better than the other.

it's better to break it up into positions:

Crosby>Staal
Ryan = Horton
Pouliot < Zherdev
Brule = Vanek (both started in the NHL this year, vanek has done nothing to impress)
Skille < Michalek
Setoguchi > Kostitsyn (i know i know)

Johnson > Suter
Lee > Coburn (way more potential)
Bourdon = Phaneuf (of 2 years ago)

Price<Fleury

3 equal
4 2005 better
3 2003 better

 

[Attica]

Hummmm....

Dion Phaneuf is like a slightly downgraded mix of Scott Stevens and Kevin Hatcher. (my post about "not being Scott Stevens should have been red like this)

Luc Bourdon is more of a talented Igor Ulanov. The problem is that I can't find whether the key word here is "talented" or "Igor-Ulanov".

are we talking about the same players, cause you've got to be the biggest Phaneuf Homer ever, not only do you rate Phaneuf high, but purposfully ignore Bourdon's talent. What a joke.

 

[JonathanK]

+1

You are most definitely not alone...

+2, 3, 4, 5 or however many other people have already said so.

 

[MXD]

Your argument is flawed. 2003 is indeed one of the deepest drafts ever but what pertinence do guys picked between 11th overall and 30th have on a defenseman who is picked 10th overall?

If you're comparing top tier talents, don't bother listing guys picked at 100th overall.

Here's the breakdown for the top 10 picks of 2003:
1.) Marc-Andre Fleury
2.) Eric Staal
3.) Nathan Horton
4.) Nikolai Zherdev
5.) Thomas Vanek
6.) Milan Michalek
7.) Ryan Suter
8.) Braydon Coburn
9.) Dion Phaneuf
10.) Andrei Kostitsyn

Here's the breakdown for the top 10 picks of 2005:
1.) Sidney Crosby
2.) Bobby Ryan
3.) Jack Johnson
4.) Benoit Pouliot
5.) Carey Price
6.) Gilbert Brule
7.) Jack Skille
8.) Devin Setoguchi
9.) Brian Lee
10.) Luc Bourdon

If lets compare the top 10 of 2005 vs the top 10 of 2003.

Crosby > Fleury
Ryan < Staal
Johnson > Horton
Pouliot < Zherdev
Price < Vanek
Brule > Michalek
Skille < Suter
Setoguchi = Coburn
Lee < Phaneuf
Bourdon > Kostitsyn

As you can see, it doesn't matter how much bottom depth the class of 2003 has, both draft classes had supreme talent in their respective top 10s. Gilbert Brule would've been drafted top 3 in any other draft year but fell to 6th this year. This gives you an idea of how good the top 10 of 2005 is.

Crosby Over Fleury
Staal Over Ryan
Horton = Johnson
Pouliot over Zherdev
Price = Vanek
Brulé over Michalek
Suter over Skill
Setoguchi over Coburn
Phaneuf over Lee
Bourdon over A.Kostistyn, but again it's the safe pick vs. risky pick.

 

[MXD]

are we talking about the same players, cause you've got to be the biggest Phaneuf Homer ever, not only do you rate Phaneuf high, but purposfully ignore Bourdon's talent. What a joke.

Read the original post.

Downgraded mix of Scott Stevens and Kevin Hatcher (remember, mix is BLEND, not SUM) is a good, 1st pairing D-Men. Phaneuf isn't this yet, but he's 21 YO or 22, and D-Men takes more time to reach their peak. Anyone saying that Chris Pronger would be the D-Men he is now 10 years ago would have been considered a homer... But in the end, such a guy wouldn't have been considered a "homer", he would be considered, well, right.

The Igor Ulanov thing was about bad hockey sense, good hitting,average defensive skills and mediocre offensive skills. A more "talented" Ulanov would be a D-Men with mediocre hockey sense, good-to-great hitting, above average defensive habilities and average offensive skills, and Luc Bourdon is projecting this right now, NHL-wise