Luc Bourdon the next Dion Phaneuf?

[A Good Flying Bird*]

You may want to watch them play before annointing Johnson better. If you have to ask people on here about Phaneufs game then you are in NO position to say who is better Johnson or Phaneuf.

Which is why I didn't say it.

How about answering my question instead of getting huffy and puffy?

 

[hockeyfan125]

Here is my attempt to be as unbiased as possible..

Phaneuf at 18 had more holes in his game than Bourdon does right now at 18, and if Bourdon progresses as well as Dion, he might be better, or the same, or worse. Its really, really hard to compare an 18 year old to a 20 year old.

As for Jack Johnson, I have seen him play a few times, and there is no doubt in my mind he is better than Phaneuf, Suter, and Bourdon.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Which is why I didn't say it.

How about answering my question instead of getting huffy and puffy?

I cant answer it, havent watched Johnson enough.

Didnt say what? You said Johnson was way better than Phaneuf then asked about the details of Phaneufs game.

SO how can you say Johnson is better without watching Phaneuf play??

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

His skating isn't great, but its nowhere near a hinderance in anyway (Suter and Coburn were better for example), and his first pass is very good, has always been a strength, as for free flow passing, once again, not great, but good. Dion's advantage is positioning and awareness, so he is rarely beat and rarely caught out of position (this was his junior days anyways, he is still a rookie). Its what has helped skyrocket him up the prospect charts.
.

Yeah, it's rare to find a young defenseman with good positioning.
It can take five years for some guys to figure out what they're doing.

Like I say, I like Phaneuf.
But I was shockedy by Johnson's ability last year. And after three games at U of M, he looks like he will dominate in the NCAA. If he has a weakness, it's positioning. He gets caught roaming around when his team gets pinned in his own end. But that's pretty common for a young defenseman.
Last night, he laid about four or five crushing open ice hits on Boston College players. He went end to end and nearly scored, Bobby Orr style. His cross-ice passes were tape to tape.

This is a guy in his THIRD NCAA game and he looks like the best player on the ice.

 

[NFITO]

Right now there's no question, Phaneuf is the better dman. He's NHL ready. At 20, that's impressive for a dman.

It's also not fair to compare Bourdon, who was just drafted, to a 20 YO Phaneuf.

At the same age, how different were they?

Right after Phaneuf was drafted (3rd dman taken in his draft, 9th overall), he wasn't much different than Bourdon (3rd dman taken, 10th overall).

Both were considered future top pairing talent.

Bourdon, since being drafted, has come into the canucks camp, and almost won a job. Played hard, hit hard, showed an offensive game as well... his stock no doubt has gone up at least a little since he was drafted.

Is that all that different than Phaneuf, right after his draft year? how did he look in his first camp?

When Bourdon's 20, and challenging for a spot on the canucks lineup, it's a better comparison to what Phaneuf is like now - a talented 20 YO rookie damn.

right now though, Bourdon is 2 yrs behind in development. The way he's played so far, I'm confident that we'll be seeing as much potential from him as the Flames are getting from Phaneuf right now. Bourdon should be in the canucks lineup in 2 yrs fulltime... a few years of development and he should be a ready for a top pairing role. Which puts him IMO, in a similar development path to Phaneuf.

Who knows what either prospect will be like in 5 yrs... or who will be better in their prime... all we know now is that they're both talented, and at this stage at least, Phaneuf is at a level that Bourdon will have to work hard to get to... so far he's shown no reason to doubt that he can.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

I cant answer it, havent watched Johnson enough.

Didnt say what? You said Johnson was way better than Phaneuf then asked about the details of Phaneufs game.

SO how can you say Johnson is better without watching Phaneuf play??

Dude you're giving me a headache.

1) What can't you answer? My question was about Phaneuf. So it doesn't matter whether or not you've seen Johnson play.

2) I never said Johnson was way better, or even a little better than Phaneuf. Never. I said "I don't see how" Phaneuf could be better. But that's not a clear statement of belief, is it? There's a big difference. I don't see how Phaneuf could be better than Johnson is not saying "Johnson is better than Phaneuf"
]
3) I have seen Phaneuf play, just not enough to know what his skating/passing is like.

 

[Charge_Seven]

I'd take Phaneuf over both those guys in a heartbeat and I'm certainly not alone.

I'll stand beside you on that one.

 

[sunb]

I should know better to insult Phaneuf but Bourdon is very much like him--both are very good defense prospects who are being grossly overhyped by their respective team's fanbases. Phaneuf has already been written in by many as the Flames #1 defender after a good week or so and it appears that Canucks fans are willing to do the same for Bourdon.

Both are very nice prospects, neither is as good as really elite defense prospects like Jack Johnson and Ryan Suter.

I'd definitely take Jack Johnson over Dion Phaneuf, Ryan Suter and Luc Bourdon.

 

[sunb]

They are not even close, Phaneuf brings allot more to the game than just his physical side. Bourdon is okay but he is not on the same level as Phaneuf.

Thats because Phaneuf is two years older.
Bourdon and Phaneuf are relatively identical at age 18.
Some would even say that Bourdon (at 18) is better than Phaneuf (at 18).

Obviously Phaneuf's claim to fame was his meteoric rise to the top in the year after his draft.

The question is whether or not Bourdon can develop as superbly as Phaneuf.

 

[Steveorama]

I've watched all four play quite a bit.
It is hard to compare guys of different ages, but based on what I've seen, I would say that once they hit their peak, they will be ranked this way:

1. Johnson
T2. Phaneuf
T2. Bourdon
4. Suter

They will all be above average, possibly all-star dmen, IMO.
If Bourdon develops very quickly over the next two years (as Phaneuf certainly has), he could pass Phaneuf.

 

[Jaysfanatic*]

Bourdon is better, he doesn't try to hit people too hard when his team is down 6-2

 

[Vagrant]

Sadly for Dion Phaneuf, he has been severely publicized and polarized on this board. Every single thread had a mention of his name in it, and it was reminiscent of Mike Komisarek following his draft year. He's a fantastic prospect, and probably in the Top 3 defenseman in the world under 20 right now, but he's not as far and away the best as many think he is due to his coverage.

Dion can lay some serious lumber. That is bound to get your attention right away. A great deal of his press started after that HUGE hit he had, and everybody was sold on him from that point forward. His offensive upside is overrated, but still serviceable. He doesn't have the natural offensive talent that Jack Johnson has, but he's about neck and neck with Bourdon. Bourdon has more natural talent on offense than does Phaneuf, but Phaneuf knows how to get the most out of what he has in that end of the ice. Which in esscence means that he's a fantastic spot picker and has a cerebral side to his game, and that is just as important as all the natural talent in the world.

I hesistate to rank these three against each other, and suffice it to say that who will become better will depend 100% on how hard they are willing to improve their game, and that isn't an objective number or clear visual signal that can be easily determined or the draft would be a lot less interesting.

 

[Transported Upstater]

Sadly for Dion Phaneuf, he has been severely publicized and polarized on this board. Every single thread had a mention of his name in it, and it was reminiscent of Mike Komisarek following his draft year. He's a fantastic prospect, and probably in the Top 3 defenseman in the world under 20 right now, but he's not as far and away the best as many think he is due to his coverage.

Dion can lay some serious lumber. That is bound to get your attention right away. A great deal of his press started after that HUGE hit he had, and everybody was sold on him from that point forward. His offensive upside is overrated, but still serviceable. He doesn't have the natural offensive talent that Jack Johnson has, but he's about neck and neck with Bourdon. Bourdon has more natural talent on offense than does Phaneuf, but Phaneuf knows how to get the most out of what he has in that end of the ice. Which in esscence means that he's a fantastic spot picker and has a cerebral side to his game, and that is just as important as all the natural talent in the world.

I hesistate to rank these three against each other, and suffice it to say that who will become better will depend 100% on how hard they are willing to improve their game, and that isn't an objective number or clear visual signal that can be easily determined or the draft would be a lot less interesting.

I think a lot of it comes down to who would you most want on your team if you were coaching.

 

[RayLeeCharles]

it seems like theres alot of country homerism going on in this thread. imo i like dion better just based on what ive seen throughout his whl career and so far through his rookie year. with johnson id like to see him dominate wjr's before putting him ahead of dion though hes fairly close. suter had a less than stellar year last year by most accounts and bourdon needs to also standout head and shoulders above the his respective league to even be considered a "next dion" imo

 

[Transported Upstater]

I think their is some country homerism. Certainly not from me, but there is plenty. Don't get me started on Don Cherry...




I am an American. I would take Dion Phaneuf over Ryan Suter and Jack Johnson. I have no shame in this.



Although ideally, I'd want all three, and while I'm on that, Shea Weber can join as well...

 

[Transported Upstater]

it seems like theres alot of country homerism going on in this thread. imo i like dion better just based on what ive seen throughout his whl career and so far through his rookie year. with johnson id like to see him dominate wjr's before putting him ahead of dion though hes fairly close. suter had a less than stellar year last year by most accounts and bourdon needs to also standout head and shoulders above the his respective league to even be considered a "next dion" imo

Suter is not a statistically overpowering player. He never has been. You know what you're getting with him though. IMO he's lower risk than anyone else mentioned here.

 

[Fedz]

watch the WJC this year..

I try to be as non-homer as possible, but Bourdon can hit like hell.

Just ask the Edmonton Oilers, Brad Winchester.

-- I think it was Winchester that he railed.

 

[cyrisweb]

Think Phaneuf was in a much better setup and that helped him develop the way he did.

The fact that Bourdon is on probably the worste team in the Q scares me. For that reason I see him joining the Canucks faster because of his situation in the Q.

 

[4:20]

I would take a 20 year old defenseman who had high potential when he was drafted and has developed as well as one could possibly hope, over an 18 year old defenseman who has equally or slightly higher potential but could develop well or poorly.

In other words, if I were a GM of any NHL team, I would take Phaneuf over Bourdon or Johnson.

 

[Bouchard]

Bourdon can hit like a truck, saw him play last night and he absolutely destroyed Freddie Cabana. So much so that the home crowd went 'OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH'

 

[supermoon]

I have not seen enough of Phaneuf or Johnson to compare them to Bourdon, but I can say from watching Bourdon that he is a tremendous talent.

He might be a better skater than Jovanovski and has a canon of a shot. If yesterday's game is any indication it seems more accurate than that of Phaneuf's. His first pass is accurate and crisp. I'm not sure if he is any good at fighting, but newspapers report he likes to drop the gloves too.

Like other people have said, he hits like a freight train. He usually doesn't just hit people, he absolutley annihilates them. At this point, I would say Phaneuf is a better open-ice hitter, but in terms of overall hitting Bourdon is right there in terms of devastation.

He still needs to develop his defensive reads though as sometimes he seems to be caught trying to do to much, leaving him out of position.

 

[guzzy]

I should know better to insult Phaneuf but Bourdon is very much like him--both are very good defense prospects who are being grossly overhyped by their respective team's fanbases. Phaneuf has already been written in by many as the Flames #1 defender after a good week or so and it appears that Canucks fans are willing to do the same for Bourdon.

Both are very nice prospects, neither is as good as really elite defense prospects like Jack Johnson and Ryan Suter.

Of course not they are not American

We're not worthy

 

[abracanada]

Dude, if you're going to criticize someone's post, consider elaborating.

Because your post isn't looking so hot right now.

I liked what I saw of Phaneuf in the Flames-Wings game. But he's got a long way to go yet. A long way. Which is only natureal for a guy his age.

Question to Phaneuf phans: WHat's his skating like? How is his passing?

Because Jack Johnson is a GREAT skater. His passing skills are phenomenal.
He's not as big as Dion. But he loves to hit.

I don'tb see how Phaneuf could have much more than Johnson. Quite simply, I can't remember the last time I saw a young defenseman who did everything so effin well.

Carolina got lucky when Anaheim drafted Ryan. Don't get me wrong. Ryan is great. But Johnson, well, you'll all see soon enough.

Bill Guerin is quoted in the Edmonton Journal saying that Phaneuf "is going to give that Crosby or Ovechkin a run for the rookie award". If you consider how good these two are, and how defence is tougher to learn for a rookie, that gives you an idea how an opposing player feels about him. Phaneuf is a special defenceman, and the best defensive prospect to come along in quite some time.

 

[flambers]

Thats because Phaneuf is two years older.
Bourdon and Phaneuf are relatively identical at age 18.
Some would even say that Bourdon (at 18) is better than Phaneuf (at 18).

Obviously Phaneuf's claim to fame was his meteoric rise to the top in the year after his draft.

The question is whether or not Bourdon can develop as superbly as Phaneuf.

I totally disagree, Bourdon was drafted high in a very avg draft year. Phaneuf was drafted high in a incredible deep draft. Bourdon is okay but he is not a dman with the upside that Phaneuf has.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

I totally disagree, Bourdon was drafted high in a very avg draft year. Phaneuf was drafted high in a incredible deep draft. Bourdon is okay but he is not a dman with the upside that Phaneuf has.

Average draft year? The top 15 of this draft is as deep as you can get.