LT's HF Fantasy Draft - Voting, Round 4

[Llamamoto]

San Jose/SJSharks72
Jeff Skinner-Sebastian Aho-Vladimir Tarasenko
Carter Verhaeghe-Pierre Luc Dubois-Anthony Mantha
Carl Grundstrom-Frederick Gaudreau-William Eklund
Warren Foegele-Eetu Luostarinen-Vinnie Hinostroza
Drew O’Connor

Devon Toews-Erik Cernak
Mike Matheson-Artyom Zub
Jeremy Lauzon-Henri Jokiharju
Zac Jones-Calle Sjalin

Kaapo Kahkonen
Petr Mrazek

Florida/E D
Jaden Schwartz - Sidney Crosby - David Perron
Peyton Krebs - Anze Kopitar - Cam Atkinson
Adam Lowry - Anthony Cirelli - Brandon Tanev
Philipp Kurashev - Tyson Jost - Sammy Blais

Mikey Anderson - Drew Doughty
Alex Edler - John Klingberg
Ty Smith - Gustav Lindstrom

Semyon Varlamov
Joonas Korpisalo

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Colorado/Llamamoto
Alexander Ovechkin - Evgeni Malkin - Ondrej Kaše
Anthony Beauvillier - Yanni Gourde - Travis Konecny
Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Filip Chytil - Dylan Guenther
Jan Jenik - Morgan Geekie - Colin Blackwell
(Rasmus Kupari, Alexei Protas)

Thomas Chabot - Chris Tanev
Bowen Byram - Josh Manson
Philip Broberg - Sean Walker
(Justin Barron)

Carter Hart
Alex Georgiev

Ottawa/ConnonMcMullet
Anders Lee - Connor McDavid - Troy Terry
Lawson Crouse - Chandler Stephenson - Jordan Kyrou
Dominik Kubalik - Jack Roslovic - Colin White
Nick Robertson - Barrett Hayton - Jacob Peterson
(Bobby Brink, Xavier Bourgault)

Shea Theodore - Jared Spurgeon
Gustav Forsling - Alexandre Carrier
Jakub Zboril - Philippe Myers
(Niko Mikkola)

Matt Murray
Ilya Samsonov

Click to read more...

 

[Tryamkin]

florida and ottawa are the two best teams here imo by a bit

 

[belair]

florida and ottawa are the two best teams here imo by a bit

Florida wins this thing handily. Only team whose bottom six isn't populated by prospects and 'name' players.

Easily had the best third line out of any team in the game.

 

[Nucker101]

Florida wins this thing handily. Only team whose bottom six isn't populated by prospects and 'name' players.

Easily had the best third line out of any team in the game.

Kassel signed in Vegas. Your team will do better when we re-vote after the season

 

[Tryamkin]

Florida wins this thing handily. Only team whose bottom six isn't populated by prospects and 'name' players.

Easily had the best third line out of any team in the game.

my third line was better but I got trolled

 

[belair]

my third line was better but I got trolled

Respectfully, I disagree. Thompson is a nice pickup and that's some nice center depth, but those are not third liners.

Thompson would've been better utilized in the top six. Same with Voracek, who is pretty much a setup guy who gets super soft minutes at this point in his career.

Cirelli is a Selke calibre C complimented by two super physical two-way forwards. Honestly having Lowry on that line is almost overkill. Huge shutdown line.

IMO @Joey Moss is the one who got robbed. That team had some sick depth.

 

[Tryamkin]

Respectfully, I disagree. Thompson is a nice pickup and that's some nice center depth, but those are not third liners.

Thompson would've been better utilized in the top six. Same with Voracek, who is pretty much a setup guy who gets super soft minutes at this point in his career.

Cirelli is a Selke calibre C complimented by two super physical two-way forwards. Honestly having Lowry on that line is almost overkill. Huge shutdown line.

IMO @Joey Moss is the one who got robbed. That team had some sick depth.

Not sure what’s wrong with having three scoring lines. Domi drives the net and Voracek creates for Tage. My players are wasted but his are so good they’re almost overkill? The lines are designed to roll matchups and capitalize on weak middle six lines on other teams. You’re welcome to your own opinion but it doesn’t add up to me.

 

[belair]

Not sure what’s wrong with having three scoring lines. Domi drives the net and Voracek creates for Tage. My players are wasted but his are so good they’re almost overkill? The lines are designed to roll matchups and capitalize on weak middle six lines on other teams. You’re welcome to your own opinion but it doesn’t add up to me.

It's one dimensional. Scoring lines don't always score. Particularly when the combination of them would be slow and defensively suspect. They'd get shutdown.

Frequently when 'scorers' are forced to play lower on the roster their offense evaporates, which is what would happen if you did that to Tage Thompson in Buffalo. His scoring occurred because he played in a role that gave him the cream of crop in terms of line support, icetime, zone starts.

His three are all quality checking forwards. Cirelli is two-way beast. That's like adding another high-end defenseman. It makes the roster more rounded because there's more to hockey than just scoring.

The reason why competitive teams chased Nick Paul this year was for that very reason. The reason why Max Domi was essentially given away was because he's a flawed player.

 

[E D]

If it's any consolation I thought Try had a very very good 3rd line that honestly could be a rival to mine. Just different directions of shut down vs scoring. Tage at 3C is stupid good lmao

 

[Joey Moss]

Respectfully, I disagree. Thompson is a nice pickup and that's some nice center depth, but those are not third liners.

Thompson would've been better utilized in the top six. Same with Voracek, who is pretty much a setup guy who gets super soft minutes at this point in his career.

Cirelli is a Selke calibre C complimented by two super physical two-way forwards. Honestly having Lowry on that line is almost overkill. Huge shutdown line.

IMO @Joey Moss is the one who got robbed. That team had some sick depth.

True

 

[Nucker101]

Belair and Try both got robbed

Joey had a decent team but NYR was a tough 1st round matchup for him, I don't have an issue with that result, I think the better team won, but his team would've won some other matchups.

 

[Panda Bear]

Respectfully, I disagree. Thompson is a nice pickup and that's some nice center depth, but those are not third liners.

Thompson would've been better utilized in the top six. Same with Voracek, who is pretty much a setup guy who gets super soft minutes at this point in his career.

Cirelli is a Selke calibre C complimented by two super physical two-way forwards. Honestly having Lowry on that line is almost overkill. Huge shutdown line.

IMO @Joey Moss is the one who got robbed. That team had some sick depth.

A "third liner" is a player who likely wasn't good enough to be a second or a first liner on their team. It's not a dedicated role in and of itself.

There are teams that will run a dedicated checking line as their third line, but you're just as likely to see a team sprinkle their best checking forwards throughout their lineup. There's no issue playing Nichushkin or Palat high up in the lineup.

Tryamkin having two bonafide top sixers and a middle sixer for his third line is a good thing. The bad thing, upon further reflection, is that both Domi and Voracek are weak shooters whose best asset is their passing. They're duplicates.

You just said that he had two players who would be better served getting "top six minutes" as if it were a bad thing, and then failed to acknowledge they would be playing together.

Not sure what’s wrong with having three scoring lines. Domi drives the net and Voracek creates for Tage. My players are wasted but his are so good they’re almost overkill? The lines are designed to roll matchups and capitalize on weak middle six lines on other teams. You’re welcome to your own opinion but it doesn’t add up to me.

The only issue is that Domi doesn't do that. Tage does, though. Domi being successful is being on the puck instead of Voracek.

It's one dimensional. Scoring lines don't always score. Particularly when the combination of them would be slow and defensively suspect. They'd get shutdown.

Frequently when 'scorers' are forced to play lower on the roster their offense evaporates, which is what would happen if you did that to Tage Thompson in Buffalo. His scoring occurred because he played in a role that gave him the cream of crop in terms of line support, icetime, zone starts.

His three are all quality checking forwards. Cirelli is two-way beast. That's like adding another high-end defenseman. It makes the roster more rounded because there's more to hockey than just scoring.

The reason why competitive teams chased Nick Paul this year was for that very reason. The reason why Max Domi was essentially given away was because he's a flawed player.

Lowry - Cirelli - Tanev may be comprised of hard-working players known for defensive excellence, but none of them specialise in things like entering the zone or scoring goals (none of them have ever paced for 20 goals).

On Tryamkin's team, Tage gets to play on a 2A/2B scenario where he probably gets 15-18 minutes a night. He probably gets time on PP1 as net front, and he gets to be on a line with Voracek, a possession and zone entry god known for dangerous passes. He would get both line support and icetime.

Try probably plays his fourth line around 8 minutes a game, 10 at the most.

 

[belair]

A "third liner" is a player who likely wasn't good enough to be a second or a first liner on their team. It's not a dedicated role in and of itself.

There are teams that will run a dedicated checking line as their third line, but you're just as likely to see a team sprinkle their best checking forwards throughout their lineup. There's no issue playing Nichushkin or Palat high up in the lineup.

Tryamkin having two bonafide top sixers and a middle sixer for his third line is a good thing. The bad thing, upon further reflection, is that both Domi and Voracek are weak shooters whose best asset is their passing. They're duplicates.

You just said that he had two players who would be better served getting "top six minutes" as if it were a bad thing, and then failed to acknowledge they would be playing together.


The only issue is that Domi doesn't do that. Tage does, though. Domi being successful is being on the puck instead of Voracek.


Lowry - Cirelli - Tanev may be comprised of hard-working players known for defensive excellence, but none of them specialise in things like entering the zone or scoring goals (none of them have ever paced for 20 goals).

On Tryamkin's team, Tage gets to play on a 2A/2B scenario where he probably gets 15-18 minutes a night. He probably gets time on PP1 as net front, and he gets to be on a line with Voracek, a possession and zone entry god known for dangerous passes. He would get both line support and icetime.

Try probably plays his fourth line around 8 minutes a game, 10 at the most.

There's so much missing context though. That offense evaporates from a Nichushkin or a Palat or a Tage Thompson when the OZ push and the primary line support disappears.

Zone entry monsters emerge when they get frequent breakouts from elite puck movers and speedy OZ support. You saddle a guy with a slow poke like Voracek and there's a good chance teams are stifling your breakouts in the NZ.

Competitive teams ice actual checking lines because a hockey game is at least 60 minutes long. Goals happen very infrequently. You just don't see the three scoring line setup because that third line would be a defensive mess. There would at least be one line that would be overwhelmed with the weaker support or the tougher matchup or the limited minutes.

Tage Thompson had the year that he had this year because he played on a top line. Take him off of that line next year and he struggles, he gets distracted and upset.

 

[Panda Bear]

There's so much missing context though. That offense evaporates from a Nichushkin or a Palat or a Tage Thompson when the OZ push and the primary line support disappears.

Zone entry monsters emerge when they get frequent breakouts from elite puck movers and speedy OZ support. You saddle a guy with a slow poke like Voracek and there's a good chance teams are stifling your breakouts in the NZ.

Competitive teams ice actual checking lines because a hockey game is at least 60 minutes long. Goals happen very infrequently. You just don't see the three scoring line setup because that third line would be a defensive mess. There would at least be one line that would be overwhelmed with the weaker support or the tougher matchup or the limited minutes.

Tage Thompson had the year that he had this year because he played on a top line. Take him off of that line next year and he struggles, he gets distracted and upset.

(1) Doesn't "primary line support" effectively mean playing with good players who can generate offence? If so, then how does playing with Voracek mean Tage is not being supported? Voracek remains one of the best players in the entire league for entering the zone with possession and generating high quality chances for his linemates.

The better your team is at maintaining possession and applying offensive pressure, the more of an offensive push each line will get.

(2) Zone entry monsters are players who are exceptionally good at entering the zone as the player's own talent. The frequency may be adjusted by the quality of the team, but the it's a talent of the player themselves.

Athanasiou in LA and Gregor in SJS were both exceptional at gaining the zone with possession this past season, and neither of them were given an offensive zone push or great linemates.

To hammer that home, Athanasiou has been amazing at zone entries every season he's been in the NHL including some awful Detroit teams. It's not about speedy linemates or great puckmovers--it's about him being great at transporting the puck.

(3.a) It is not mandatory that a successful team use its third line as a checking line.

Florida didn't. St Louis didn't. Capitals used their fourth line for checking.

Tampa? Their entire bottom nine was like a checking line.

And Colorado? Well, Colorado just had a super soft minutes fourth line with Newhook and the Cogliano-Helm line wasn't a checking line so much as a "ensure nothing happens on ice" like. Top opposition was handled by Colorado's top six.

You can sprinkle your best defensive forwards throughout the lineup, and that seems to be very common now to me.

(3.b) If you have a line that is getting overwhelmed every game for whatever reason, you break up the line. We all have a bad habit in this game of looking at lines as if they could never be rearranged.

(4) I like discussing hockey with you.

 

[Panda Bear]

P.S. I am not touching that 'Tage will pout' comment for a fantasy hockey discussion.