Player Discussion Loui Eriksson, Pt. II

[mathonwy]

I feel like the topic of effort level is basically just talking about how fast a player is and it's a pretty lame point of discussion in a league full of players who have constantly outdone others to make the nhl.

Lack of effort level is what most people talk about when they call a player as "declining".

To gauge the effort level of a player, you actually have to focus intently on his play and see how hard he's working along the boards, how hard he's back checking, how fast he's changing, how engaged he is with his teammates, if he's finishing his checks.

All things that don't show up on a stat sheet. All things that you have to WATCH the game to be able to see.

The reason why I'm a Beagle fan is Jay puts in a very high amount of effort into his every shift and that effort reverberates up the line up.

Eriksson. Exactly the opposite. Only plays hard when the rest of the team is playing hard. Completely ok to pork the pooch when the team is sucking wind.

So... if FAN is ok with Eriksson's effort level then ... well... in my humble opinion, that's a mighty low bar to set... mighty low bar indeed.

 

[Josepho]

or maybe he's just slower than the other players

also who the f*** cares how hard he allegedly works if he still generates better results than someone like beagle or motte

 

[mathonwy]

or maybe he's just slower than the other players

also who the **** cares how hard he allegedly works if he still generates better results than someone like beagle or motte

Welp.

Enjoy your Eriksson then.

 

[F A N]

Lack of effort level is what most people talk about when they call a player as "declining".

Umm... no. I think when a player is said to be "declining" most people are referring to that player's abilities and and on ice play relative to what they showed in the past. The Sedins were declining prior to their retirement. Has nothing with their effort level.

To gauge the effort level of a player, you actually have to focus intently on his play and see how hard he's working along the boards, how hard he's back checking, how fast he's changing, how engaged he is with his teammates, if he's finishing his checks.

All things that don't show up on a stat sheet. All things that you have to WATCH the game to be able to see.

This I agree.

The reason why I'm a Beagle fan is Jay puts in a very high amount of effort into his every shift and that effort reverberates up the line up.

Eriksson. Exactly the opposite. Only plays hard when the rest of the team is playing hard. Completely ok to pork the pooch when the team is sucking wind.

So... if FAN is ok with Eriksson's effort level then ... well... in my humble opinion, that's a mighty low bar to set... mighty low bar indeed.

I think Eriksson has physically declined as oppose to him not putting in the effort. It's like he can't generate any power when he skates. There's a difference and like you said you need to WATCH the game to be able to see.

 

[Cupless44]

I feel like the topic of effort level is basically just talking about how fast a player is and it's a pretty lame point of discussion in a league full of players who have constantly outdone others to make the nhl.

It can also desribe a players intensity level and if they want no part of any physical contact to make a play. Or if their signature move on a rush is to just dump the puck into the corner.

 

[Cupless44]

Umm... no. I think when a player is said to be "declining" most people are referring to that player's abilities and and on ice play relative to what they showed in the past. The Sedins were declining prior to their retirement. Has nothing with their effort level.



This I agree.



I think Eriksson has physically declined as oppose to him not putting in the effort. It's like he can't generate any power when he skates. There's a difference and like you said you need to WATCH the game to be able to see.

Either way he sucks and needs to be off this team somehow before 3 more years of this.

And why cant he put in more effort? Why is he the first off the ice every practice? Why doesn't he stay and work on his muffin of a shot? Pettersson can work on his shot, why cant the highest paid player on the team try to be better? He doesn't seem to me like a guy who is overly worried about taking home big cheques for minimal results.

 

[Josepho]

It can also desribe a players intensity level and if they want no part of any physical contact to make a play. Or if their signature move on a rush is to just dump the puck into the corner.

Eriksson is a player who has scored the majority of goals both in his career and in Vancover by playing directly in front of the net. I don't think he's afraid of contact.

I don't get how dumping it in has any sort of correlation with work ethic. That probably works better for him than attempting to Bartkowski his way through 3 defenders and fail miserably.

 

[mathonwy]

Umm... no. I think when a player is said to be "declining" most people are referring to that player's abilities and and on ice play relative to what they showed in the past. The Sedins were declining prior to their retirement. Has nothing with their effort level.

Effort and motivation play a MASSIVE part on how a player looks on ice.

I'm glad you brought up the Sedins because they are the perfect example.

You look at the Sedins play before the TDL and after the TDL in the 15-16 and 16-17 season and it's night and day. Their post TDL play was unwatchable and made me turn the game off on multiple occasions.

Did they suddenly "decline" after one day? Nope. The TDL is the marker where they deemed whether or not the team was playoff bound and because the team was such a crap show in those two seasons, they switched it off and the result was terrible hockey.

Yes old age catches up to us all but effort level is still effort level. When the Sedins were actively engaged, their passes were crisp and fast, they were skating hard and they were battling hard through checks while they were cycling in the corners.

Up-tempo hockey some people would call it.

And exactly what this management/ownership killed with their idiocy.

I think Eriksson has physically declined as oppose to him not putting in the effort. It's like he can't generate any power when he skates. There's a difference and like you said you need to WATCH the game to be able to see.

Ok FAN. I'll give you this one. Maybe his knee is still bothering him. That's certainly a realistic hypothetical.

I still stand by my stance for Eriksson's first couple seasons here though however I've already accepted that this FA signing was going to be terribad so whatevs. He's a reliable defensive guy and that's better than nothing.

 

[Cupless44]

Eriksson is a player who has scored the majority of goals both in his career and in Vancover by playing directly in front of the net. I don't think he's afraid of contact.

I don't get how dumping it in has any sort of correlation with work ethic. That probably works better for him than attempting to Bartkowski his way through 3 defenders and fail miserably.

I realize he has some garbage goals in front of the net so you have a point there but i have not watched a player the past 3 years that is hard on the puck, competes hard to retrieve the puck, will ever initiate physical contact on the boards.

 

[mathonwy]

I realize he has some garbage goals in front of the net so you have a point there but i have not watched a player the past 3 years that is hard on the puck, competes hard to retrieve the puck, will ever initiate physical contact on the boards.

Yup. He does none of these things because they require additional effort.

Vrbata didn't do these things but was able to put points on the board so that balances out the equation.

Loui doesn't.

 

[Josepho]

I realize he has some garbage goals in front of the net so you have a point there but i have not watched a player the past 3 years that is hard on the puck, competes hard to retrieve the puck, will ever initiate physical contact on the boards.

Yup. He does none of these things because they require additional effort.

Vrbata didn't do these things but was able to put points on the board so that balances out the equation.

Loui doesn't.

In order to do those things you need to be

A) Fast
B) Chasing the play

I don't think anyone would admit that he's a fast hockey player but I'd say the fact that he's not chasing the play is probably a good thing.

 

[Cupless44]

Yup. He does none of these things because they require additional effort.

Vrbata didn't do these things but was able to put points on the board so that balances out the equation.

Loui doesn't.

Exactly. You really have to look at what he provides. I think Gaunce could get 10 goals a year and play a defensive role at 1/6 of the price. Gaunce had 3 points in the 2 games he was given and is playing pretty well in Utica. Rather give his role to a younger, hungrier player. By next fall MacEwen could be ready for a bottom 6 role..big, fast, tough, with good hands. Very soon this contract anchor will be in the way of young players.

Obviously a horrible signing, the Canucks were supposed to get a couple of productive years before he was bad for the final years of the 6 year contract, but just to make this signing as annoying as possible, this player has been massively underwhelming from day 1, meaning all 6 years.

 

[mathonwy]

In order to do those things you need to be

A) Fast
B) Chasing the play

I don't think anyone would admit that he's a fast hockey player but I'd say the fact that he's not chasing the play is probably a good thing.

I disagree.

You don't need to be fast when players are scrumming for pucks in the corner or when you're finishing off a check or when you're battling for position in front of the net.

But...

I'm willing to entertain the possibility that the game has completely passed Eriksson by.

It would be sad but it's what's happened to Gud and Gud is only 27 so not impossible.

I'll make a note to pay closer attention to Loui in the next few games.

 

[Cupless44]

I think it should also be pointed out that Eriksson has had a good run in the top 6 until recently and is still on the 2nd PP unit when you consider his low production. Long streaks of no points have been very common for him in Vancouver.

Is there anything more depressing than seeing Eriksson, Sutter, Granlund come out for the 2nd PP unit?

 

[mathonwy]

I think it should also be pointed out that Eriksson has had a good run in the top 6 until recently and is still on the 2nd PP unit when you consider his low production. Long streaks of no points have been very common for him in Vancouver.

Is there anything more depressing than seeing Eriksson, Sutter, Granlund come out for the 2nd PP unit?

Gud Poo as our 3rd pairing.

 

[Josepho]

Gudbranson does absolutely nothing well and there's not a single metric that suggests he's remotely good at hockey. He's easily the worst player on this team. He's not even comparable with Eriksson.

You won't find a single stat that suggests that Eriksson isn't around 3rd liner quality. Literally all the backlash surrounding him is that he's old, makes too much money and doesn't do these arbitrary "eye test" things that other inferior players do.

From an on-ice perspective only, I'd get rid of Schaller, Beagle, Granlund, Motte, Sutter (at least this year's iteration) and maybe even Roussel before him.

Obviously if there's a way to get out of his contract you take it.

 

[mathonwy]

Gudbranson does absolutely nothing well and there's not a single metric that suggests he's remotely good at hockey. He's easily the worst player on this team. He's not even comparable with Eriksson.

You won't find a single stat that suggests that Eriksson isn't around 3rd liner quality. Literally all the backlash surrounding him is that he's old, makes too much money and doesn't do these arbitrary "eye test" things that other inferior players do.

From an on-ice perspective only, I'd get rid of Schaller, Beagle, Granlund, Motte, Sutter (at least this year's iteration) and maybe even Roussel before him.

Obviously if there's a way to get out of his contract you take it.

Salary aside, can you really afford to have a slow oft-injured 33 year old that can't score and plays a non-contact game taking up a bottom 6 roster spot in today's NHL?

 

[pgj98m3]

Umm... no. I think when a player is said to be "declining" most people are referring to that player's abilities and and on ice play relative to what they showed in the past. The Sedins were declining prior to their retirement. Has nothing with their effort level.



This I agree.



I think Eriksson has physically declined as oppose to him not putting in the effort. It's like he can't generate any power when he skates. There's a difference and like you said you need to WATCH the game to be able to see.

And when you watch the game...especially live....you see his lack of effort and obviously declining skills.

 

[Cupless44]

Gudbranson does absolutely nothing well and there's not a single metric that suggests he's remotely good at hockey. He's easily the worst player on this team. He's not even comparable with Eriksson.

You won't find a single stat that suggests that Eriksson isn't around 3rd liner quality. Literally all the backlash surrounding him is that he's old, makes too much money and doesn't do these arbitrary "eye test" things that other inferior players do.

From an on-ice perspective only, I'd get rid of Schaller, Beagle, Granlund, Motte, Sutter (at least this year's iteration) and maybe even Roussel before him.

Obviously if there's a way to get out of his contract you take it.

Man your post is a stark reminder of what a sorry collection of veteran players Jim Benning has put together without even listing all his pro scouting failures on defence.

 

[F A N]

Effort and motivation play a MASSIVE part on how a player looks on ice.

I'm glad you brought up the Sedins because they are the perfect example.

You look at the Sedins play before the TDL and after the TDL in the 15-16 and 16-17 season and it's night and day. Their post TDL play was unwatchable and made me turn the game off on multiple occasions.

Did they suddenly "decline" after one day? Nope. The TDL is the marker where they deemed whether or not the team was playoff bound and because the team was such a crap show in those two seasons, they switched it off and the result was terrible hockey.

Yes old age catches up to us all but effort level is still effort level. When the Sedins were actively engaged, their passes were crisp and fast, they were skating hard and they were battling hard through checks while they were cycling in the corners.

Up-tempo hockey some people would call it.

And exactly what this management/ownership killed with their idiocy.

Ok FAN. I'll give you this one. Maybe his knee is still bothering him. That's certainly a realistic hypothetical.

I still stand by my stance for Eriksson's first couple seasons here though however I've already accepted that this FA signing was going to be terribad so whatevs. He's a reliable defensive guy and that's better than nothing.

I'm not sure your whole TDL argument proves anything. Fatigue and injuries do affect play over the course of a long season.

 

[Josepho]

Salary aside, can you really afford to have a slow oft-injured 33 year old that can't score and plays a non-contact game taking up a bottom 6 roster spot in today's NHL?

If they're scoring more than other bottom sixers and not giving up much defensively, sure.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Didn't realize that Eriksson apparently has a thing for cats...

 

[Cupless44]

If they're scoring more than other bottom sixers and not giving up much defensively, sure.

I don't think too many teams have slow 33 year olds in their bottom 6. They definately aren't paying 6 million for bottom 6 players.

The whole need for veteran thing that this management has hitched themselves too just hasn't sold me . After the previous 3 seasons of the worst combined record in the NHL I would really rather take my chances with young players like MacEwen in the bottom 6 over Eriksson, Schaller, Granlund. Also time for Gaudette over Sutter in the line up.

 

[TeddyBare]

I don't think too many teams have slow 33 year olds in their bottom 6. They definately aren't paying 6 million for bottom 6 players.

The whole need for veteran thing that this management has hitched themselves too just hasn't sold me . After the previous 3 seasons of the worst combined record in the NHL I would really rather take my chances with young players like MacEwen in the bottom 6 over Eriksson, Schaller, Granlund. Also time for Gaudette over Sutter in the line up.

Pretty much everyone who took part in the 2016 free agency is paying bottom 6 guys around that.
Lucic
Ladd
Eriksson
Backes
Okposo

 

[Cupless44]

Pretty much everyone who took part in the 2016 free agency is paying bottom 6 guys around that.
Lucic
Ladd
Eriksson
Backes
Okposo

Only Canucks management signed bottom 6ers to 4 year term since then.