Confirmed with Link: Lou Lamoriello will not be Leafs GM next season - moves into Senior Advisor role

[LaPlante94]

I think Hunter and Dubas knew the deal and what the plan was when they were both hired. I think Dubas will become the GM and that's why he was the GM of the Marlies while Hunter was more of a scout. Hunter might add AGM to his title.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think Hunter and Dubas knew the deal and what the plan was when they were both hired. I think Dubas will become the GM and that's why he was the GM of the Marlies while Hunter was more of a scout. Hunter might add AGM to his title.

Hunter is already AGM

 

[Menzinger]

very, we hire Dubas as GM so maybe we need to find a new head scout there are plenty more out there. None of prospects outside of 1st round picks have jumped up in quality you'd expect if you had a super scout in charge. Little bit early but starting to think Hunter is getting pretty overrated as a scout. Dermott actually he does seem to have exceeded expectations other than that Grundstrom is trending toward a middle 6 forward pretty much what was expected.

We lose a really good head scout due to not giving him a promotion so be it, we would lose him as a scout anyway if he became GM. GM cant scout as much as a head scout would need to

Good point.

I like Hunter, but I don’t think anyone can say so far the Leafs scouting is any better than average at the moment. It’s still early days but Dermott is the only non top 10 pick to make the NHL so far. If Hunter leaves he can be replaced.

I was pretty underwhelmed by the non-first round selections for the ‘16 and ‘17 drafts for the Leafs other than a few guys (ie Gindstrom looks promising).

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Hunter has been pretty underwhelming as scout....at least in the draft. Sure the top picks are good but anyone could have picked those. Like to see how if any gems are uncovered from the third to seven rounds are which would be show his value as a scout.
Hunter gained his "fame" as scout for his junior team in London. Now the Hunters have made London a very desirable place for juniors to play...especially Americans.....for good reason. But that has less to do with scouting than a players desire to play in London than playing in less desirous travel weary towns.
And for players who might go the NCAA route instead of playing in "worse" locations, the attraction of London in the OHL is more about the city of London than Hunters's scouting.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Hunter has been pretty underwhelming as scout

Surely someone's scouting performance is quantifiable.
Is there such a metric ?

 

[MR4]

Hunter has been pretty underwhelming as scout....at least in the draft. Sure the top picks are good but anyone could have picked those. Like to see how if any gems are uncovered from the third to seven rounds are which would be show his value as a scout.
Hunter gained his "fame" as scout for his junior team in London. Now the Hunters have made London a very desirable place for juniors to play...especially Americans.....for good reason. But that has less to do with scouting than a players desire to play in London than playing in less desirous travel weary towns.
And for players who might go the NCAA route instead of playing in "worse" locations, the attraction of London in the OHL is more about the city of London than Hunters's scouting.

Good post, this is really where I question the repeated advantage in scouting of Hunter over Dubas. Dubas is majorly praised for his last draft (with no Hunter cheating needed for it) that the Soo is still benefitting from and he got hired based on his dream of having a team that contends every year, while Hunter has really benefitted from just circumventing the OHL rules in ways that aren't repeatable in the NHL. That really makes me question why people admire Hunter's OHL resume over Dubas.

 

[hotpaws]

Hunter has been pretty underwhelming as scout....at least in the draft. Sure the top picks are good but anyone could have picked those. Like to see how if any gems are uncovered from the third to seven rounds are which would be show his value as a scout.
Hunter gained his "fame" as scout for his junior team in London. Now the Hunters have made London a very desirable place for juniors to play...especially Americans.....for good reason. But that has less to do with scouting than a players desire to play in London than playing in less desirous travel weary towns.
And for players who might go the NCAA route instead of playing in "worse" locations, the attraction of London in the OHL is more about the city of London than Hunters's scouting.

What's so attractive about the city of London ?

 

[hotpaws]

Good post, this is really where I question the repeated advantage in scouting of Hunter over Dubas. Dubas is majorly praised for his last draft (with no Hunter cheating needed for it) that the Soo is still benefitting from and he got hired based on his dream of having a team that contends every year, while Hunter has really benefitted from just circumventing the OHL rules in ways that aren't repeatable in the NHL. That really makes me question why people admire Hunter's OHL resume over Dubas.

how is the Hunter bros making the Knights the premiere destination for players to go to in the OHL cheating ?

 

[BertCorbeau]

Still think it's early to really judge Hunter. Mid to late round picks generally take more than a few years to develop. Even at that, people are really overstating how common is it to find NHL players in those rounds. The chances are really low. I mean if you can find 1 or 2 regular players from rounds 4 - 7 every 3-5 years, that's solid.

What really matters are the top 60-70 picks. That's where good teams hit on them. So outside of the top 10 picks the Leafs had, this is where we'll have to start seeing how Hunter performs.

I'm not going to use Liljegren because that was more from the obvious names camp.

Outside of that, from 2015, there is: Dermott, Bracco, and Nielsen. Dermott is looking like a hit. Bracco is actually starting to look like a good pick as well based on how he's finished the season with he Marlies. Nielsen had a great first AHL season but not as good of a follow up - his skating being the big hangup here. Pretty solid drafting overall so far.

In 2016 there's Korshkov, Grundstrom, and Woll. Grundy is looking like a gem .. Korshkov is a wildcard because no one really has gotten a good look at him - but from what we've heard he's done pretty well where he is. Still early to tell. Woll has been up and down. Still looks decent in terms of potential impact players.

Finally in 2017 the only other top 60 pick was Rasanen who had a great start to the season but struggle with being away from home for a stretch. Jury's still out on him.

So out of those 7 players, drafted in the second round, you have one impact NHLer (Dermott), 2 potential impact players (Grundy and Bracco) who have shown promise at the pro level, and 1 wild card (Korshkov). Not bad in my books. While I would like to see more of our second rounders crack the big club sooner (making Hunter look better), dating and developing just takes time in most instances.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

What's so attractive about the city of London ?

It's location makes a relatively easy travel schedule. Some other towns especially in northern Ontario make travel brutal IMO. And if your a parent who is worried about your child getting time to do school work, I would say travel or lack of would be a factor. if you want your child playing in the OHL, or going to the NCAA, or remaining at home in the lower junior leagues London has a great university and colleges if so inclined.
The Knights play in a fine arena and often sell out, 8,000 I think is the capacity, so it has a great feel at hockey games. The Hunters have to the richest owners in junior hockey....easy to do when he pay your player 35 dollars a week. I'm sure their is trickle down payments to the players above that 35 dollars a week.
Money wise the Hunters don't need the NHL or any job a club would have to offer. Owning and managing a successful junior franchise has it's own merits, financially and ego wise.

 

[MR4]

how is the Hunter bros making the Knights the premiere destination for players to go to in the OHL cheating ?

Oh come on, you really think someone drafting high-skill players that are saying they won't play for any team except for London / saying they'll play in NCAA to not get drafted by other teams is a fair draft? It just doesn't seem as transferable to NHL scouting success as the Dubas Soo drafts are to me, where he didn't need to rely on those non-transferable benefits to have awesome drafts.

And let's not act like the party scene/Western U./travel in London isn't more the reason that it's the premiere place, over other good OHL cities, that kids want to go to even if it's known as a good hockey city/development program. Hunter definitely couldn't make Sault St Marie a premiere spot that players would want to circumvent the draft for.

 

[hotpaws]

It's location makes a relatively easy travel schedule. Some other towns especially in northern Ontario make travel brutal IMO. And if your a parent who is worried about your child getting time to do school work, I would say travel or lack of would be a factor. if you want your child playing in the OHL, or going to the NCAA, or remaining at home in the lower junior leagues London has a great university and colleges if so inclined.
The Knights play in a fine arena and often sell out, 8,000 I think is the capacity, so it has a great feel at hockey games. The Hunters have to the richest owners in junior hockey....easy to do when he pay your player 35 dollars a week. I'm sure their is trickle down payments to the players above that 35 dollars a week.
Money wise the Hunters don't need the NHL or any job a club would have to offer. Owning and managing a successful junior franchise has it's own merits, financially and ego wise.

the easier travel schedule can be said for many teams not just London and if it came down to location i'd have too believe Missy and Oshawa would benefit the most since they are the closest clubs to the greatest number of potential prospects

there's deals cut every year at draft time (all clubs so it) and the main reason many top prospects want to go to London isn't because of the travel or the arena or to party but because they believe it's one of the better places to develop for the NHL

 

[hotpaws]

Oh come on, you really think someone drafting high-skill players that are saying they won't play for any team except for London / saying they'll play in NCAA to not get drafted by other teams is a fair draft? It just doesn't seem as transferable to NHL scouting success as the Dubas Soo drafts are to me, where he didn't need to rely on those non-transferable benefits to have awesome drafts.

And let's not act like the party scene/Western U./travel in London isn't more the reason that it's the premiere place, over other good OHL cities, that kids want to go to even if it's known as a good hockey city/development program. Hunter definitely couldn't make Sault St Marie a premiere spot that players would want to circumvent the draft for.

no it's not a fair draft but no one was beating down the doors to go to London before the Hunters got there and you still have to be able to assess the talent that wants to come to your team

every year prospects and teams make deals , just because the Knights were better shouldn't be held against them

also if a kid wants to party there's plenty of towns with universities

Hamilton
Kitchener - U of Waterloo , Laurier , Conestoga college all on the same street within a 5/10 min drive of each other
Oshawa
Guelph

among many others

as far as the Soo goes , that franchise has pretty much always been run fairly well , and they've always been a typical OHL cyclical team which rises and falls every few years

the thing i find funny is that people seem to believe if they just pimp there guy hard enough and rip everyone else they believe it will make a difference on who Shanny picks to be our next GM

also if Shanny doesn't choose Dubas the vast majority of his supporters would disappear overnight and support/defend/pimp whoever is chosen to be our next GM

 

[Peasy]

the easier travel schedule can be said for many teams not just London and if it came down to location i'd have too believe Missy and Oshawa would benefit the most since they are the closest clubs to the greatest number of potential prospects

there's deals cut every year at draft time (all clubs so it) and the main reason many top prospects want to go to London isn't because of the travel or the arena or to party but because they believe it's one of the better places to develop for the NHL

Which has very little to do with drafting on Hunter's end.

Again, take a look at the players that come out of London in the first round, a majority of them are imports, or others that refused to play for other OHL clubs thus got traded to London.

You don't have that luxury in the NHL...

Its not like the Knights are continuously drafting guys really late in the OHL draft that are becoming stars. The majority of their most successful players were already high profile prospects coming into junior.

A lot of people that do not follow junior hockey blindly assume that the Knight's success is based solely on Hunter's drafting which is far from the truth.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Needs title change.
Lou ain’t doing senior advisor

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Dubas it is.

 

[hotpaws]

Which has very little to do with drafting on Hunter's end.

Again, take a look at the players that come out of London in the first round, a majority of them are imports, or others that refused to play for other OHL clubs thus got traded to London.

You don't have that luxury in the NHL...

Its not like the Knights are continuously drafting guys really late in the OHL draft that are becoming stars. The majority of their most successful players were already high profile prospects coming into junior.

A lot of people that do not follow junior hockey blindly assume that the Knight's success is based solely on Hunter's drafting which is far from the truth.

what you're leaving out is that there's many prospects that would like to come to the Knights but you still have to scout to see which is the one you're going to use your top pick on

also scouting isn't just the draft , it's also used to base your trades on and for team building

and on the flip side there's kids that don't want to go there because they feel they'll always be stuck in depth/support roles

 

[Albi34]

Why do people post tweets from a twitter account with less than 200 followers lmao...

"Twitter for The Rival Sports, a sports blog by fans for the fans."

Lmao indeed...

Like I said, I follow this account and until they post something incorrectly, I'm going to give them my time. Dubas GM confirmed.

 

[MR4]

no it's not a fair draft but no one was beating down the doors to go to London before the Hunters got there and you still have to be able to assess the talent that wants to come to your team

every year prospects and teams make deals , just because the Knights were better shouldn't be held against them

also if a kid wants to party there's plenty of towns with universities

Hamilton
Kitchener - U of Waterloo , Laurier , Conestoga college all on the same street within a 5/10 min drive of each other
Oshawa
Guelph

among many others

as far as the Soo goes , that franchise has pretty much always been run fairly well , and they've always been a typical OHL cyclical team which rises and falls every few years

the thing i find funny is that people seem to believe if they just pimp there guy hard enough and rip everyone else they believe it will make a difference on who Shanny picks to be our next GM

also if Shanny doesn't choose Dubas the vast majority of his supporters would disappear overnight and support/defend/pimp whoever is chosen to be our next GM

I disagree on the 'assess the talent' being equal to other teams when you're getting a much higher quality pool of players to yourself.

And London is definitely the party city of Ontario, close with Toronto nightlife/powder use and Laurier is the only one that comes close to U. Western. Oshawa shouldn't even be mentioned lol.

But back to what matters, no, other teams did not do the same as the Hunters, at least anywhere near the amount of times the Hunters did. And really comes down to that's not at all a transferable skill to being a good NHL GM, could be a good GM, but his resume is deservedly scrutinized if he relied on an advantage he won't have here to have success. While this is Dubas' OHL seasons' records without relying on Hunter's methods:

Pre-Dubas: 56 points
Y1: 64
Y2: 78
Y3: 95
Y4: 110

And with your comment that they've always been run well diminishing Dubas' impact, I disagree based on Dubas' year 3 being the highest point total of the Soo since 84-85, and his year 4 being the Soo's highest point total ever. Well, that is until the Soo in the next 3 years after Dubas' departure had point totals of 74/100/116, showing that there was a very solid base left by Dubas for Raftis to use to succeed.

Also no one thinks their words on a discussion board have any impact on real life decisions, but why are you on the board if you're going to make a mockery of discussion? But I personally won't be too hurt if Hunter is surprisingly named GM over Dubas as it's not like Hunter is a trash candidate, just I prefer Dubas.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

the easier travel schedule can be said for many teams not just London and if it came down to location i'd have too believe Missy and Oshawa would benefit the most since they are the closest clubs to the greatest number of potential prospects

there's deals cut every year at draft time (all clubs so it) and the main reason many top prospects want to go to London isn't because of the travel or the arena or to party but because they believe it's one of the better places to develop for the NHL

Gee, of course there other teams with good travel schedules, I certainly wasn't saying London was the only one. But the Knights have been able to deal to have good players on their team because the some players had options, it some of was avoid small town, poor travel destinations. And I didn't suggest that a "party town" was the choice of the 17 year old player, but schooling was choice of his parents.
But you're right, London has been able to develop players who consistently are high round picks. It's partly their development but also they have had top prospects come to their team.

 

[Suntouchable13]

He said that he'd love to bring all the UFAs back if he could. Really? So so glad he is gone.

 

[Daisy Jane]

He said that he'd love to bring all the UFAs back if he could. Really? So so glad he is gone.

he also said that they earned the right for free agency and expect them to take it.
he's not gonna go "i'm not gonna bother with them." or "i'm glad they are ufa so i don't have to deal with them anymore."

 

[Warden of the North]

I think we can wrap this up now that Dubas is the guy