Lots of wingers; Blockbuster coming?

[kimzey59]

It remains to be seen whether or not his hockey sense and skills will translate to the NHL level. Sure you may have a few more players that are borderline NHLers playing in the AHL, but you are talking about a guy that needs to be in your top six in order to play his offensive game and produce. He must be better than the top 6 that we currently have on the Blues roster, and he is not.

Nonsense.
The Blues roll 3 scoring lines. Schwartz could stick on any of those lines and put up decent numbers.

The only thing Schwartz has to do is beat out the worst player in our top 9(most likely D'Agostini).

He has the 2nd worst +/- on his team next to Taylor Chorney. Hopefully, stats lie and he has learned how to cover his man in the defensive zone. I would venture to say that he probably needs to stay where he is at and get powerplay and top 6 forward minutes and round out the rest of his defensive game.

How many times have people said that "we can afford a defensive liability here and there given how strong our overall team defense is" (mostly in regards toputting Cole next to Pietrangelo).

The spot we're likely talking about in regards to Schwartz is the LW next to Backes and Oshie. Those are our 2 strongest defensive players, and I might even include Pietrangelo when making that statement. If we could afford a defensively weak player anyplace in the lineup; that is the spot. AS I said before; all Schwartz has to do is out produce D'Agostini in that spot and he can make the squad, and that isn't as hard as you want to think it is.

It will be a short season where every win and point will be more crucial.

Exactly, every point will be crucial.
How do you even begin to justify leaving Schwartz at home if he proves to be more productive in camp than one of our current top 9? D'Agostini didn't exactly tear up Germany.

Give him time to gel and dominate at the AHL level. Let his hockey sense and skills surpass the AHL level. We have enough depth right now to let him develop.

We might have the depth, but do we have the top-end skill?
The Blues aren't exactly loaded with top-end scoring ability.

Again, if Schwartz proves to be more productive he should get the spot. We can't afford to leave a superior offensive player in the AHL.

I'm not saying that Schwartz will not get there, but he definitely has a ways to go on both sides of the blue line. Hitchcock is a defense first guy. You all know that.

I do know that.
I also know that Hitch has been incredibly open about how he's going to hand out his roster spots. It's going to be based on performance, and nothing else. A lot of our top 9 didn't play during the lockout and some of the ones that did play weren't all that good. Our lineup is a lot more open than you think it is and Schwartz has as good a chance to stick as anybody.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Nonsense.
The Blues roll 3 scoring lines. Schwartz could stick on any of those lines and put up decent numbers.

The only thing Schwartz has to do is beat out the worst player in our top 9(most likely D'Agostini).




How many times have people said that "we can afford a defensive liability here and there given how strong our overall team defense is" (mostly in regards toputting Cole next to Pietrangelo).

The spot we're likely talking about in regards to Schwartz is the LW next to Backes and Oshie. Those are our 2 strongest defensive players, and I might even include Pietrangelo when making that statement. If we could afford a defensively weak player anyplace in the lineup; that is the spot. AS I said before; all Schwartz has to do is out produce D'Agostini in that spot and he can make the squad, and that isn't as hard as you want to think it is.





Exactly, every point will be crucial.
How do you even begin to justify leaving Schwartz at home if he proves to be more productive in camp than one of our current top 9? D'Agostini didn't exactly tear up Germany.




We might have the depth, but do we have the top-end skill?
The Blues aren't exactly loaded with top-end scoring ability.

Again, if Schwartz proves to be more productive he should get the spot. We can't afford to leave a superior offensive player in the AHL.




I do know that.
I also know that Hitch has been incredibly open about how he's going to hand out his roster spots. It's going to be based on performance, and nothing else. A lot of our top 9 didn't play during the lockout and some of the ones that did play weren't all that good. Our lineup is a lot more open than you think it is and Schwartz has as good a chance to stick as anybody.

We can agree to disagree. He may be better overall player than D'Agostini or maybe not. Matt did pop 20+ goals 2 years ago and 9 last year. To be real honest, I would hate to see Schwartz put on the Blues roster and play 10 minutes a game and be taken out in favor of a Sobotka or Porter in the 3rd period as a defensive replacement to preserve a lead. With Backes, Oshie, Perron, McDonald, Stewart, Steen, Tarasenko, and Berglund as well as Shatty and Pietrangelo logging as much as possible time on the point; I seriously doubt Schwartz gets much in the way of power play time unless the game is out of hand. Personally, I would rather he stay in Peoria for a year, get stronger, learns to play at a much higher tempo than the previous year, and skate 20+ minutes a game in all situations. If Hitchcock had that much confidence in Schwartz as a better alternative than his top 9-10 forwards, then how come he didn't dress in one single playoff game even when we had trouble scoring goals? I wouldn't be surprised, if he doesn't possibly break camp given a player shows up Tkachunky and stays up for a bit as long as he gets plenty of ice time. Do you really want Schwartz getting 10-12 minutes a game of ice time at this point in his career? I say no. I can't wait to see him in a Blues jersey, if he gets to play. Until then, I would rather he gets more seasoning.

 

[actionhank1786]

D'Agostini, McDonald, and Stewart. What do they all have in common? The likelihood or possibility for various reasons that they will no longer be with us in the nearish future.

I can't see them moving McDonald. He's too good down low on the power play, and if we have a sniper like Tarasenko, and a healthy Perron, i think he just becomes that much more valuable at hitting guys like that when they're open.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Would D'Agostini need to clear waivers to go to Peoria?

 

[David Dennison]

Would D'Agostini need to clear waivers to go to Peoria?

Si senor.

 

[DrVanntastic]

We can agree to disagree. He may be better overall player than D'Agostini or maybe not. Matt did pop 20+ goals 2 years ago and 9 last year. To be real honest, I would hate to see Schwartz put on the Blues roster and play 10 minutes a game and be taken out in favor of a Sobotka or Porter in the 3rd period as a defensive replacement to preserve a lead. With Backes, Oshie, Perron, McDonald, Stewart, Steen, Tarasenko, and Berglund as well as Shatty and Pietrangelo logging as much as possible time on the point; I seriously doubt Schwartz gets much in the way of power play time unless the game is out of hand. Personally, I would rather he stay in Peoria for a year, get stronger, learns to play at a much higher tempo than the previous year, and skate 20+ minutes a game in all situations. If Hitchcock had that much confidence in Schwartz as a better alternative than his top 9-10 forwards, then how come he didn't dress in one single playoff game even when we had trouble scoring goals? I wouldn't be surprised, if he doesn't possibly break camp given a player shows up Tkachunky and stays up for a bit as long as he gets plenty of ice time. Do you really want Schwartz getting 10-12 minutes a game of ice time at this point in his career? I say no. I can't wait to see him in a Blues jersey, if he gets to play. Until then, I would rather he gets more seasoning.

10-12 minutes per game is not exactly unreasonable for a rookie skater. Especially a rookie skater on a deep team.

The reason Schwartz should (and I think most likely will) start the season in Peoria is because he can go down without clearing waivers. Unless he tears up camp and earns a top-9 spot he'll start in Peoria for no other reason than to preserve depth. The 94-95 season was loaded with injuries for all teams. It would not put the Blues in a fantastic position to keep Schwartz up and risk losing a player to waivers unless Schwartz makes it impossible to leave him off the team.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Si senor.

Sorry, I was being rhetorical and trying to point out the primary reason to favor D'Agostini staying on the roster and Schwartz being a call-up. Anyway, unless the Blues get a miraculous run of health this season I think we'll see a lot of Schwartz.

 

[sh724]

Sorry, I was being rhetorical and trying to point out the primary reason to favor D'Agostini staying on the roster and Schwartz being a call-up. Anyway, unless the Blues get a miraculous run of health this season I think we'll see a lot of Schwartz.

The only way Schwartz would get dags spot is if dags is under performing, if that was the case it would not be a stretch for them to put dags in the press box and keep Porter in Peoria. Porter has a 2 way contract so he would not have to clear wavers.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

The only way Schwartz would get dags spot is if dags is under performing, if that was the case it would not be a stretch for them to put dags in the press box and keep Porter in Peoria. Porter has a 2 way contract so he would not have to clear wavers.

Actually, he would have to clear waivers regardless of having a 2-way contract. I remember reading that in a PJ star article.

http://www.pjstar.com/news/x1903093998/Blues-re-sign-ex-Rivermen-winger-Chris-Porter-sources-say

 

[sh724]

Actually, he would have to clear waivers regardless of having a 2-way contract. I remember reading that in a PJ star article.

http://www.pjstar.com/news/x1903093998/Blues-re-sign-ex-Rivermen-winger-Chris-Porter-sources-say

You are correct. I only looked at his contract I did not bother calculating his games played and years in the league

 

[542365]

Actually, he would have to clear waivers regardless of having a 2-way contract. I remember reading that in a PJ star article.

http://www.pjstar.com/news/x1903093998/Blues-re-sign-ex-Rivermen-winger-Chris-Porter-sources-say

Then what the hell is the purpose of him having a 2 way contract? What other purpose does it serve?

 

[Alklha]

Then what the hell is the purpose of him having a 2 way contract? What other purpose does it serve?

2-way contracts are just about different AHL and NHL salaries. Porter will get $105k in the AHL and $650k in the NHL.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I can't see them moving McDonald. He's too good down low on the power play, and if we have a sniper like Tarasenko, and a healthy Perron, i think he just becomes that much more valuable at hitting guys like that when they're open.

I didn't say he would be gone immediately, but he is an injury prone player that will be 36 at the start of next season. He doesn't have a long time left in his career.

 

[rumrokh]

Yea, the two-way contract meaning no waivers thing is entirely from a video game. All it does is pay different salaries at each level.

 

[bleedblue1223]

If D'Agostini plays like he did last season, then we will see Schwartz and D'Agostini will be a healthy scratch. Same goes for Stewart IMO. Both of them don't do much defensively and will need to produce offensively to keep a spot in the lineup.

 

[sh724]

Yea, the two-way contract meaning no waivers thing is entirely from a video game. All it does is pay different salaries at each level.

That is not entirely true, players on 2 way contracts do not have to go through waivers until they have played a certain number of games in the NHL. Until they reach the limit they can be sent up and down as many times as the team wants without having to clear waivers

 

[542365]

Yea, the two-way contract meaning no waivers thing is entirely from a video game. All it does is pay different salaries at each level.

Got that right lol. That's really all I know about it. Never really gotten into the economics of the sport. So a player with a one way contract that clears waivers and plays in the AHL will make the same amount that they make in the NHL? Like Wade Redden is still making like 5-6 million? Or did I butcher that too Lol.

 

[sh724]

Got that right lol. That's really all I know about it. Never really gotten into the economics of the sport. So a player with a one way contract that clears waivers and plays in the AHL will make the same amount that they make in the NHL? Like Wade Redden is still making like 5-6 million? Or did I butcher that too Lol.

Yes if you are on a one way contract then no matter what league you play in you make your NHL salary. When Chicago sent Huet to Europe they still had to pay him his full salary.

 

[542365]

Yes if you are on a one way contract then no matter what league you play in you make your NHL salary. When Chicago sent Huet to Europe they still had to pay him his full salary.

Ouch. Thank you for educating the economically ignorant

 

[David Dennison]

If D'Agostini plays like he did last season, then we will see Schwartz and D'Agostini will be a healthy scratch. Same goes for Stewart IMO. Both of them don't do much defensively and will need to produce offensively to keep a spot in the lineup.

What has Schwartz done? He was outmatched in the NHL last season, and has been only decent but streaky in the AHL this year. His play without the puck still needs a lot of work. It can be overlooked if you are scoring, but Im not sure Schwartz is a guy who could step into the NHL immediately and be a difference maker offensively.

I just think he needs to play well in Peoria before he is getting penciled in ahead of guys like Dago and Stewart, both guys who have had a lot of pro success. I will say that I dont think Stewart finishes the year on this team, but until a trade or injury happens, I think Jaden will be in the AHL.

 

[rumrokh]

That is not entirely true, players on 2 way contracts do not have to go through waivers until they have played a certain number of games in the NHL. Until they reach the limit they can be sent up and down as many times as the team wants without having to clear waivers

Right, but you can sign a two-way contract at any time. A dude could be 35 and have 800 games under his belt and sign a two-way contract (or could he? I assume so, anyway). So the number of games played is the important part.

 

[sh724]

Right, but you can sign a two-way contract at any time. A dude could be 35 and have 800 games under his belt and sign a two-way contract (or could he? I assume so, anyway). So the number of games played is the important part.

The only limit on what kind of contract a player can sign is ELCs are all 2 way, other than that any player can sign a 1 way or 2 way. Last season Cheechoo played in Peoria on a 2 way he was 32 and has played like 500 NHL games.

 

[EastonBlues22]

If I had my druthers (great word, druthers), Schwartz would spend as little time as possible "developing" in Peoria as possible. I honestly think there's a decent chance that he picks up more bad habits than good ones (hanging onto the puck too long, forcing plays, doing too much himself, poor positioning, etc.) trying to compensate for relatively poor linemates on a relatively bad team. It's really hard to learn things like proper positioning if the positioning of those around you isn't what it should be, either.

He thinks the game at a high level, and he seems like a quick study. I don't expect his adjustment to the NHL to take long. Even if it does, I think he'll get more out of practicing with good players on a good team with minimal game time than he would with getting lots of game time in Peoria. If the Blues can afford to keep him up with the big club, I would like to see it happen.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

If I had my druthers (great word, druthers), Schwartz would spend as little time as possible "developing" in Peoria as possible. I honestly think there's a decent chance that he picks up more bad habits than good ones (hanging onto the puck too long, forcing plays, doing too much himself, poor positioning, etc.) trying to compensate for relatively poor linemates on a relatively bad team. It's really hard to learn things like proper positioning if the positioning of those around you isn't what it should be, either.

He thinks the game at a high level, and he seems like a quick study. I don't expect his adjustment to the NHL to take long. Even if it does, I think he'll get more out of practicing with good players on a good team with minimal game time than he would with getting lots of game time in Peoria. If the Blues can afford to keep him up with the big club, I would like to see it happen.

If Schwartz stays with the club, how do you see the roster? Seems like D'Agostini (or Stewart or someone) would almost have to be moved or else we get Schwartz sitting and watching a lot (bad for his development). And it also would wind up hurting the depth, which was a big strength last season.

 

[Celtic Note]

If I had my druthers (great word, druthers), Schwartz would spend as little time as possible "developing" in Peoria as possible. I honestly think there's a decent chance that he picks up more bad habits than good ones (hanging onto the puck too long, forcing plays, doing too much himself, poor positioning, etc.) trying to compensate for relatively poor linemates on a relatively bad team. It's really hard to learn things like proper positioning if the positioning of those around you isn't what it should be, either.

He thinks the game at a high level, and he seems like a quick study. I don't expect his adjustment to the NHL to take long. Even if it does, I think he'll get more out of practicing with good players on a good team with minimal game time than he would with getting lots of game time in Peoria. If the Blues can afford to keep him up with the big club, I would like to see it happen.

If our development of prospects in Peoria had a better track record, then I would disagree. But given the current and past direction of the team, I am not sure Peoria makes the most sense...not sure the big club does either.