Losing mentality sunk in deep.

Discussion in 'Edmonton Oilers' started by Replacement*, Oct 18, 2013.

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  1. Replacement*

    Replacement* Checked out

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    I want this to remain its own thread. Its of specific concern in what I see are continuing indications of the star players on this club just not getting what it really takes to win consistently.

    Also when looking at the specific comments note that this is the entitlement, and half ass attitude that Eakins has to work with every day in "made" NHL players that are guaranteed to be 6M buck men longterm. (I'll bold the silliness.)
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/spor...rs+road+woes+continue+with/9050199/story.html

    Hall:

    The above is the voice of confusion. Hall thinks that the team played well against NJ and was "back on track" with that stinking effort against one of the lousiest clubs in the league (which I stated at the time) Lets go back to that game and the Devils leading 3-0 going into the 3rd and then a miraculous bit of fortune with the Oilers climbing back into that game and actually taking the lead only to have NJ tie the game late. We got a shoot out W. In a horribly played game. Hall thinks that was the club getting back on track. At the time I posted I was very concerned with that win and that some of the losing traits on this club would view that result as progress, as vindication. Now Hall, is subsequently confirming that. He actually does think that was a good game by the club. What Hall seems to be missing is that the club has never been on track this year. They haven't played a good game yet with possible exception of Pittsburgh, or Winnipeg game. sigh.

    It gets worse, more from Hall;


    Hope, hmmm.



    Hall is only correct on the last part. Didn't deserve to Win. How about you hardly ever win a game on the road where you outplayed and outchanced that badly. Reality being the Oilers didn't give themselves much of a chance to win against a pretty lukewarm team with less depth talent in lineup. We should be able to beat the Islanders, we have to be able to win games against this nature of opponent. But somehow an Oiler club that played reasonably against the Pens picks this night to come out flat, very flat I would say. Is anybody else concerned that Hall is stating the club is playing well and just losing? jebus is he a corsicologist now? This team by my reckoning hasn't deserved to win any more than 2 or 3 of the games. Which still makes them a losing team and not playing very well overall. But apparently its good enough for Hall. I detect Horcoff type rational and commentary in this.

    Heres some more because Hall keeps giving in the interview;

    Nice for Hall to let us know what resides in his brain and that he's, how should I put this, WRONG!!!

    "Took control of the game" is grabbing a short term lead? This speaks to being satisfied anytime the club has a lead. Which explains a lot about the lack of apparent motivation this club has sealing the deal in games which it hasn't done once. I"d like to know Halls version of difference between "took control" vs "didn't grab the reins" How does Eakins even have a conversation with this level of thought process.:help: I'd be pulling my hair out, or Halls.:D

    Finally, Hall again;

    Is Hall really asking a question here? Or rhetorical question. Clearly Hall would know the club has only had a two goal lead against Winnipeg. Good for Hall to acknowledge that the Oil ""let the islanders back in the game" Although I don't know that there was a point in the game where the Islanders weren't the better playing club, and weren't in control. Hall somehow seems to disagree.

    Next, several post game videos from Eberle could be found on Oilers site where in each post or pregame video he's sitting back relaxed talking about how well the team is playing, things really going their way, outshooting, outplaying opponents and just not getting the W's and breaks. (AT any point I expect a barmaid in a playboy outfit to deliver him his dry martini.) Its not necessary for me to go into detail with Eberle's quotes because he's always saying the same thing. Really, and I'll go one further is that Eberle's translation of "team playing well" really means that he's doing reasonably well padding pts on a team that is in a horrible nosedive. But with Eberle not visibly concerned in the slightest about the clubs fortunes. I'd like to know what Jordan Eberle looks like upset because I'm convinced I've never seen it. Maybe a little more passion and intensity.

    This is the nature of 6M *leadership* that Eakins has inherited. These are two stars that without realizing it have bought into losing mentality and learned the script of rationalizing losses and more often than not feeling OK with it.

    Good thing Ference is the captain, and smart of Eakins if he realized Hall wasn't ready. Because Hall's certainly not ready to lead this club in a winning direction. Hall right now, and Eberle, don't know what a winning performance even looks like.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
  2. Diamondillium

    Diamondillium DO YOU WANT ANTS!?

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    I often have opinions that highly differ from your posts, but that entire post was just bang-on with what I've been thinking for the last while. This is a serious problem that will continue to plague the team for years until it is addressed, the problem is it's a hard as hell problem to address.
     
  3. Comrade Blunderbore

    Comrade Blunderbore Генерал Файлюра

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    we need a high-profile player from a winning club that could really lead by example. the kids won't learn winning from Ference as he isn't the kind they will look up to. we have to trade for a star, maybe just about to head into decline, but a player that can show everybody how the things are done for a year or two. we need to get such player no matter the cost.

    yes, i'm again dreaming of Joe Thornton. i bet Hertl's confidence is currently through the roof after how Jumbo had handled his debacle. we need some of that here ASAP.
     
  4. Moose Coleman

    Moose Coleman Registered User

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    TL;DR, LOL at taking that kind of time and energy to look for meaning in a pro athlete's post game platitudes.
     
  5. Replacement*

    Replacement* Checked out

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    Yep, one of the problems is that in the rush to create "competitive contracts" we've once again created guaranteed longterm entitlement. By presently overpaying these players we've told them basically. We love, you're excellent, we'll put you up at the top, and have a good life"

    Theres no message in paying very young players 6M bucks longterm is that they then have to earn it. They already have it. They're made men.

    We entitle one player after another contractually in this manner and then bring coach of the year candidates in that don't get paid a fraction of what these players get and are viewed to be expendable. We expect this unending line of coaches to be bending these ears.

    But the unfortunate thing is Hall, Eberle, know that they get paid the same regardless. Regardless of whether they make the playoffs or have nice 5month summers off which they'be been accustomed to on a losing club. Hey last years 8mths off was a bonus..
     
  6. Replacement*

    Replacement* Checked out

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    I actually agree. Its a waste of time. First thread start I've made in eons but somethings bend my ear to such a degree I can't help it. wanted to share these comments because imo they are very indicative, Horcoffian comments.

    Losing culture is alive and well and has been fully contracted. Somebody call the Dr's.
     
  7. pSlayer*

    pSlayer* Guest

    Our core is too young.. and small. They haven't grown into their frames yet (ie. Hall, RNH, J.Shultz) and we just can't win games this way. It's literally like watching boys vs. men every night. We have too many inexperienced star forwards and not enough vets and defence. The makeup of this team is brutal and full of young guys who never won in this league.

    We need more guys like Boyd Gordon and Andrew Ference on this team. The only option no matter how hard it is to accept, is to trade part of the core. I think Eberle and Yakupov both need to go, and it would be wise for MacT to trade for some help on defence right now.
     
  8. Moose Coleman

    Moose Coleman Registered User

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    Point=missed. You'll find this kind of stuff coming out of the mouth of any player in the league, win or lose.

    I get that when you watch these young men pay night after night and are invested in their performance, you want to look for anything that will give you insight into their inner thoughts, attitudes and character, whether its interviews or body language, whatever. And nowadays, between video, huge media presence, twitter etc, there's so much more material to comb through than there was in, say, Gretzky's day. After a while, you might even think you know these guys, how and what they think and feel. Well, you don't.
     
  9. Draiskull

    Draiskull Registered User

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    Yup.. Hall has certainly been playing like a man who feels entitled and someone who has it made. :help:

    The guy is getting crushed along the boards in front of the net yet still comes out flying every shift and is emotionally involved in the game..
    To questions the character of a player based on an interview is far fetching to say the least.

    The guy scores 2 goals and gets questioned as a leader and the fans have an issue with his answers... I guess Smyth is the captain we need... "well we gave 105%...hopefully the other 5% will come"..

    LETS HOPE ITS THE LAST TIME WE LOSE FOR A WHILE - Hall
     
  10. AlowlyMcOilersfan

    AlowlyMcOilersfan Comrade

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    Just as a point of comparison, what exactly has Ference said as these losses pile up?

    And has he even been interviewed after every game?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
  11. doulos

    doulos Registered User

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    Not sure why there is a whole thread created on players talking about how losing sucks.
     
  12. Gobo

    Gobo Stop looking Gare

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    Completely agree. Someone similar to Hemsky, but with a cup win, and maybe a bit older/better. It's one of the reasons I was really hoping for Jagr or Lecavlier. Even a guy like Brad Richards could work.
     
  13. sepHF

    sepHF Patreeky

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    Yup this team is dying for a veteran high impact forward.
     
  14. Soliloquy of a Dogge

    Soliloquy of a Dogge I love you, Boots

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    Bang on, Replacement. Excellent post.
     
  15. Draiskull

    Draiskull Registered User

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    because Hall sucks as a leader and should not have been given the C ... o wait he isnt the C.
    Well he should not have been given a 6M deal... just look at all the other players who make comparable money.. Skinner, Seguin, Duchene, Pavelski and how they are all the leaders of their teams...

    This thread would make sense if Hall came out and said " Well I scored my 2 goals like a boss and hit the post at the end :yo: Wins will come once others stop slacking"
     
  16. Replacement*

    Replacement* Checked out

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    The guy had 1 goal prior to an outlier 8secs last night. Really the Hall that scored those two goals has largely been in hiding this year. Theres been some dog games by Hall so far this year and games where you never once noted him being effective. This is not a timing thread. Although the timing of Halls quotes elicited the thread.
     
  17. Replacement*

    Replacement* Checked out

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    I can't say I disagree with much of what you say. Unless one believes that actual stated words, sentences, explanations, have any meaning. I tend to take people at word. We all do in our day to day lives. Sure these are words not in person, but in print, but voiced by those that have had a microphone stuck in front of them since they were young and who would I think be able to express what they actually mean.

    I don't take things in iso either. I'm contrasting everything eakins is stating with the players spoken word. Its quite clear a chasm exists. As Eakins states theres a whole lot of renovation to do here, more than he thought..I think its clear that means something as well.
     
  18. Replacement*

    Replacement* Checked out

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    Because the losing doesn't REALLY suck.

    A team that keeps stating it hates losing that keeps losing and admits to coming out in multiple games flat. We're 8 games into the season and we're seeing a club coming out flat already.

    You know that boredom and dread people have started to develop watching these performances? Looks like some of the players have it to.

    I don't buy that this losing gig is all that hard. They're making it look easy..
     
  19. Replacement*

    Replacement* Checked out

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    He did state virtually all of that postgame. I could've included more quotes. Hall before the video got sensored stated exactly what you stated and WAS passing the buck.
     
  20. Draiskull

    Draiskull Registered User

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    still... leading the team in scoring and still is going at PPG pace..
    if he has another "outlier 8 seconds" he would be 2nd in NHL in scoring.

    Not saying that he has been great but he isnt THE issue on this team.
     
  21. Replacement*

    Replacement* Checked out

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    pts or not he's -6 and his been owned on the year.

    Got his lunch money stolen last night as well. By players that he ought to be better than.
     
  22. CorpseFX

    CorpseFX Registered User

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    player comments are telling but when the coach is saying stuff like this it's even worse:

    sounds like an UNPREPARED coach (who talked stern and 'cool' before this) on a sinking ship.
    and horrendous management for the rosters they've deployed over the past few seasons trying to teach children the NHL game.

    lucky Ference is captain? lateral take on the situation if you ask me. a C level player leading a D roster isnt that much of a saving grace.
     
  23. Moose Coleman

    Moose Coleman Registered User

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    TA post game interview isn't like a normal conversation. It's is as close to a scripted routine as you can get without actually having a script. It's not a forum for actual self expression.

    'zat so?

    Geez I guess Hallsy didn't learn after Eakins tore a strip off him for not being "on message" with regard to his booing comments, eh? :sarcasm:
     
  24. Replacement*

    Replacement* Checked out

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    My own take with a new org is its prudent to take it all in, assess, and take your time before deducting, and then responding. I'm just a poster on a messageboard jumping a gun. But I think we'll see more out of Ference on and off the ice as the season progresses.
    Its a weird spot for him to be put in this situation being with a new team and learning this role in response to a new team. If I'm Ference right now I'm thinking the same as eakins, as in holy ****, this mess is worse than I thought.

    Eakins and Ference are here on cleanup duty. I don't blame them for the mess.
     
  25. Replacement*

    Replacement* Checked out

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    haha

    Well, point taken. :laugh:
     

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