Speculation: Lose for Hughes

[SDIsles34]

As an Islanders fan, I am beyond frustrated with continuous mediocrity. The type of mediocrity that gets you occasional playoff berths but never a legit run at the cup. The type of mediocrity that limits your ability to draft top tier, generational talent.

You can argue that the Islanders as currently constructed could be competitive (I don't believe that myself). However, you cannot argue that they can compete for a cup in the next 1-3 years. Even with a massive trade or two, the salary cap era makes it difficult to acquire top tier talent and retain them for an extended period of time.

With that said, I am completely on board for Lose for Hughes.

Not sure how much research you have done on the kid but by all indications, he is going to be a game-changer, franchise center. Rather than finish on the bubble, and getting a pick at #10-15.... why not take a chance at acquiring an elite high-end, cost controlled to go along with Barzal. This would open up a world of possibilities regarding a run at big UFAs or trade acquisitions in 2019-20 paired with homegrown talent graduating to the NHL.

Potential ETAs for 2019-20 = Bellows, Wahlstrom and Dobson
Potential ETAs for 2020-21 = Sorokin, Koivula

I won't go through the highly speculative exercise of drafting up line combos but the point is, Jack Hughes is the closest and most realistic chance this team has to contend in the near-term. (Kokka, Krebs and Newhook wouldn't be bad consolation prizes if the Oilers won the lottery)

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[scott99]

How about we see how this team plays before we brand the as mediocre and a team that is in on the Lose for Hughes bandwagon. Ridiculous to be predicting ANYTHING on July 5th. What if this team gets Duchene and Faulk ? Do you make another thread, Hot for Turcotte ? Gimme a break, I’m ashamed of some of you so called fans.

 

[stranger34]

No way, not wasting a year for a player we probably won't get any way

 

[Quickdraw2828]

As an Islanders fan, I am beyond frustrated with continuous mediocrity. The type of mediocrity that gets you occasional playoff berths but never a legit run at the cup. The type of mediocrity that limits your ability to draft top tier, generational talent.

You can argue that the Islanders as currently constructed could be competitive (I don't believe that myself). However, you cannot argue that they can compete for a cup in the next 1-3 years. Even with a massive trade or two, the salary cap era makes it difficult to acquire top tier talent and retain them for an extended period of time.

With that said, I am completely on board for Lose for Hughes.

Not sure how much research you have done on the kid but by all indications, he is going to be a game-changer, franchise center. Rather than finish on the bubble, and getting a pick at #10-15.... why not take a chance at acquiring an elite high-end, cost controlled to go along with Barzal. This would open up a world of possibilities regarding a run at big UFAs or trade acquisitions in 2019-20 paired with homegrown talent graduating to the NHL.

Potential ETAs for 2019-20 = Bellows, Wahlstrom and Dobson
Potential ETAs for 2020-21 = Sorokin, Koivula

I won't go through the highly speculative exercise of drafting up line combos but the point is, Jack Hughes is the closest and most realistic chance this team has to contend in the near-term. (Kokka, Krebs and Newhook wouldn't be bad consolation prizes if the Oilers won the lottery)

I think the most important thing this team needs to do is keep Barzal interested in remaining an Islander. He's already had one terrible year here, its not in our interest for him to have two or three miserable years.

I'd give the C to Barzal now. He's the best player on the team, and it would send the message that he's the man and this is his team and we want him to lead the Islanders for years. It would also be a great message from Lou to the team that he doesn't care about tradition or hurt feelings, those that produce are rewarded. I'm not concerned about a major drop off from Barzal on the first line, his skills are too high. I'd give the A's to Beauvillier and Lee. I realize Beauvillier is new but he was one of the few guys that actually gave a **** last year, I want him locked up to and this would be a great message to him. Bailey probably wouldn't be happy, but this team is about the young guys now.

 

[SDIsles34]

How about we see how this team plays before we brand the as mediocre and a team that is in on the Lose for Hughes bandwagon. Ridiculous to be predicting ANYTHING on July 5th. What if this team gets Duchene and Faulk ? Do you make another thread, Hot for Turcotte ? Gimme a break, I’m ashamed of some of you so called fans.

Easy does it- this isn't fun for anyone.

(This so-called fan has had season tickets for 10 years)

Regarding the point you so eloquently made, Duchene and Faulk still don't make this team a contender. You want to resign and invest a large chunk of cap space on Duchene? Again, the point being, the state of the salary cap era in the NHL makes it really difficult to just make a few trades or signings and expect to compete.

Take a look at this roster again, what's available out there in the market, the cost to acquire the pieces that make this even a presentable lineup and tell me you think the Islanders can compete for a Stanley Cup.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

Absolutely not. Just no no no and again no. We are not doing the same thing we did with Tavares now with Barzal, Beau, Lee, Eberle, etc, otherwise none of them will want to be here.

 

[SDIsles34]

Absolutely not. Just no no no and again no. We are not doing the same thing we did with Tavares now with Barzal, Beau, Lee, Eberle, etc, otherwise none of them will want to be here.

Whats the alternative for this upcoming season?

I think some people have tricked themselves into thinking that the Tavares loss isn't that bad and Lou is going to pull off some type of miraculous post draft/ free agency miracle to turn this team into a legitimate contender. I hope that happens, but let's be realistic.

Adding an elite talent, who is NHL ready in the 2019 Draft means that 19-20 and 20-21 have real hope to progressively build something special. Versus becoming the Knicks of the NHL and continuously attempting to "quick fix" their way to a championship.

 

[Bones45]

It is July, right??


Comon people...keep it together

 

[Benedict Kovalchuk]

I don't think Lou can turn this team into a cup contender within a year or with a few moves, but you're fooling yourself if you think a 75 year old signed up for this job with a rebuild in mind. We probably won't make the playoffs but we probably won't bottom out under Lou's watch, just not the kind of guy he is.

 

[PWJunior]

I don't think Lou can turn this team into a cup contender within a year or with a few moves, but you're fooling yourself if you think a 75 year old signed up for this job with a rebuild in mind. We probably won't make the playoffs but we probably won't bottom out under Lou's watch, just not the kind of guy he is.

Really? What was Lou doing 3 years ago?

 

[Benedict Kovalchuk]

Really? What was Lou doing 3 years ago?

The TO rebuild was like 2/3rds complete when he took the job, they already had drafted Marner, Nylander, Rielly, and others and had way more dead weight on their roster as compared to ours. We already have even more prospects and young players and even less fat to trim.

 

[MarsTBOW]

While it's fun to joke about, you know with our luck we would wind up not getting him...
Tanking is not in my lexicon of sports, it would make us Real Losers in our own minds to Tank...

 

[SDIsles34]

It is July, right??


Comon people...keep it together

It sure is. The Draft has passed, Free Agency has passed. And this team is exponentially worse than it was when the season ended. A season in which we finished with a record setting goals against and 17 points out of a playoff spot.

Show me a way that this team legitimately competes next season... no one has suggested a way that happens aside from adding Duchene and Faulk.

Trust me, I want to be wrong. I would love it if Lou makes a series of moves resulting in a contender in October... I see nearly no way that is remotely possible, especially considering the market conditions.

 

[scott99]

Easy does it- this isn't fun for anyone.

(This so-called fan has had season tickets for 10 years)

Regarding the point you so eloquently made, Duchene and Faulk still don't make this team a contender. You want to resign and invest a large chunk of cap space on Duchene? Again, the point being, the state of the salary cap era in the NHL makes it really difficult to just make a few trades or signings and expect to compete.

Take a look at this roster again, what's available out there in the market, the cost to acquire the pieces that make this even a presentable lineup and tell me you think the Islanders can compete for a Stanley Cup.

If you’re an Islander’s fan who has season tickets for 10 years, smack yourself for starting this ridiculous thread. (Just kidding about the smack part).

This team will be a pain to play against, and will be ridiculously difficult to play against with the grit brought in. Komarov, Martin and Clutterbuck are all in the top 5 for hits in the NHL last season.

IF Duchene is brought in (that’s a BIG if) the team will get even faster. He would be a perfect #2 center behind Barzal. They have the pieces to trade for him. He’s no Tavares, but he’s pretty good, and would cost a lot less. I think that one move would relieve some of the pain of losing the Traitor.

This team was 17 points out of a playoff spot even WITH Tavares. Why was that ? There are several reasons.

1) HORRIBLE COACHING. To me that was the main reason. I cannot overstate how bad the coaching was. Just horrendous. No structure, poor systems (if there were even systems). A coach who just couldn’t stop the bleeding, couldn’t adjust to the situation. That is no longer an issue. Trotz is one of the alltime great coaches. He will coach up these guys and have them playing, sound, structured hockey. And they will be difficult to play against. This team is no longer soft with the additions of Komarov & Martin (in the top 5 in hits along with Clutterbuck).

2) Team defense. This team played horrendous team defense. When you see a team give up the most goals in hockey, human nature is going to point at the defense AND goaltending. But if you play sound structured team defense, even an average defense (talent wise) can be in the top 10 in goals against. It’s all about the system, and if they will to buy into that system. Trotz preaches defense. His systems are excellent.

3) Penalty kill- this also belongs in the defense section. But adding Filppula and Komarov, the team added 2 excellent penalty killers. That was a huge weakness last year.

Coaching and some of the players we signed will go a long way in deciding if this team will “Lose For Hughes.”

 

[PWJunior]

It sure is. The Draft has passed, Free Agency has passed. And this team is exponentially worse than it was when the season ended. A season in which we finished with a record setting goals against and 17 points out of a playoff spot.

Show me a way that this team legitimately competes next season... no one has suggested a way that happens aside from adding Duchene and Faulk.

Trust me, I want to be wrong. I would love it if Lou makes a series of moves resulting in a contender in October... I see nearly no way that is remotely possible, especially considering the market conditions.

There is no quick fix. We got massacred and you don't just bounce back from that as if nothing happened. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of having to go through another rebuild, but I'm willing to do it for the long term gain. I'm not solely focused on getting Hughes, I just don't want to jeopardize our chances of getting him. The point is we need more high end talent, specifically at center and on defense. We just drafted our great #1D hope in Dobson and Wilde could be a steal. This is a talented center draft, we can get a good one.

We are still a Mickey Mouse organization folks. Lou and Trotz just got here and they were thrust into an untenable situation. It's hard enough to attract any decent free agent for us, it's pretty much impossible now with Judas bolting. Belmont is still a dream with no shovel in the ground. We have the worst arena situation in the league. We're pretty much forced to rebuild.

We do have Barzal so not all hope is lost. People are saying we need to support him and surround him with more talent. How are we going to do that? He's the new alpha dog, he needs to suck it up because that's what superstars have to do and is the reason why they get the $$$, the fame, the credit, and the blame. He's the least of my worries, I have no doubt he can handle it yet he's going to need to time to adjust to the role as does the rest of the team.

Stockpile the talent, hedge our bets on the prospects we have now. Save our cap space for when we really want to use it to bring in top talent and not the foot soldiers we are now. Define the style of play and the identity which I'm confident we do with Trotz in place.

We got knocked down, let's get back on our feet first then walk then run then sprint.

 

[SDIsles34]

If you’re an Islander’s fan who has season tickets for 10 years, smack yourself for starting this ridiculous thread. (Just kidding about the smack part).

This team will be a pain to play against, and will be ridiculously difficult to play against with the grit brought in. Komarov, Martin and Clutterbuck are all in the top 5 for hits in the NHL last season.

IF Duchene is brought in (that’s a BIG if) the team will get even faster. He would be a perfect #2 center behind Barzal. They have the pieces to trade for him. He’s no Tavares, but he’s pretty good, and would cost a lot less. I think that one move would relieve some of the pain of losing the Traitor.

This team was 17 points out of a playoff spot even WITH Tavares. Why was that ? There are several reasons.

1) HORRIBLE COACHING. To me that was the main reason. I cannot overstate how bad the coaching was. Just horrendous. No structure, poor systems (if there were even systems). A coach who just couldn’t stop the bleeding, couldn’t adjust to the situation. That is no longer an issue. Trotz is one of the alltime great coaches. He will coach up these guys and have them playing, sound, structured hockey. And they will be difficult to play against. This team is no longer soft with the additions of Komarov & Martin (in the top 5 in hits along with Clutterbuck).

2) Team defense. This team played horrendous team defense. When you see a team give up the most goals in hockey, human nature is going to point at the defense AND goaltending. But if you play sound structured team defense, even an average defense (talent wise) can be in the top 10 in goals against. It’s all about the system, and if they will to buy into that system. Trotz preaches defense. His systems are excellent.

3) Penalty kill- this also belongs in the defense section. But adding Filppula and Komarov, the team added 2 excellent penalty killers. That was a huge weakness last year.

Coaching and some of the players we signed will go a long way in deciding if this team will “Lose For Hughes.”

Love the optimism! I've smacked myself enough for the amount of time, travel and emotions I've put into being a STH.

Your areas of improvement make sense and I agree with every point you made, I just don't believe it's nearly enough to even get this team to compete given the talent on the roster, especially in the Metro Division.

The primary point I'm trying to get across is... if we are going to miss the playoffs, it will be wildly beneficial for the franchises' short-term and long-term potential if it results in an elite, franchise player that is controllable for 7+ years with a low cap hit. I am suggesting this a chance to be HIGHLY competitive and possibly contenders in 2019-20.

 

[BrockLobster]

So there are people who will sit there watching a game hoping for them to lose?? I don't get it

 

[mm11]

still waiting for Hector Marini. Sick of hoping for prospects. Let's get a guy in the 2nd line pivot than can win a draw and skate. Sounds like Duchene right?

 

[CodeE]

How about we see how this team plays before we brand the as mediocre and a team that is in on the Lose for Hughes bandwagon. Ridiculous to be predicting ANYTHING on July 5th. What if this team gets Duchene and Faulk ? Do you make another thread, Hot for Turcotte ? Gimme a break, I’m ashamed of some of you so called fans.

My sentiments exactly.

The draft lottery has made tanking obsolete. You spend an entire year sucking with your eyes on the wondrous prize at the end of the season, only to see three other teams win the lottery as you pick a Tkachuk, Makar, Poolparty over a Dahlin, Hishier, Matthews.

So then you tell yourself - well look at this Lafrienarie kid won't he be great for the franchise - why don't we tank next year to get him? And on and on until Barzal decides he wants to play for Vancouver and we're right back to the start again.

If in early March we're one of the bottom 5 teams and clear out of the playoff picture, time for the tank thread. On July 5th? Give it a break, let Trotz come in and see if he can coach some inspired hockey out of our guys.

 

[Quickdraw2828]

So there are people who will sit there watching a game hoping for them to lose?? I don't get it

not a Jets fan?

 

[BrockLobster]

not a Jets fan?

I am not. NYG actually.

 

[denis5]

Team took a massive hit on the offense side of things, but that was also its strongest positive. At the same time, we're certainly going to play a more structured, disciplined game, and have directly addressed two serious issues -- PK and grit -- the two things that killed us all last season. If the players step up, and we get a meaningful contribution from one of the kids (JHS, most likely), it would not shock me that this team, as is, is improved overall over last season. One thing is for sure, teams won't sit back and laugh at how easy we made things for them, as was the case last year.

 

[SDIsles34]

So there are people who will sit there watching a game hoping for them to lose?? I don't get it

It is one thing to hope the team loses and root against them.

It is another thing entirely to recognize the situation your team is in and understand that things are likely to get worse before they get better.

To be clear, I am not hoping any ill-will against my favorite sports team. Quite the contrary. I am hoping Lou builds a winner, patiently and methodically to bring the Stanley Cup to Long Island.

Hindsight is 20/20 but if the Islanders held onto Spezza and Chara, accepted the fate of one more season then our fortunes in the early 00's would likely be completely different. For the better...

 

[seafoam]

“In Toronto, we had to really break it right down and get to the core and see who wanted to be a part of it,” Lamoriello said. “It’s different here. There’s more talent here at this given time from the original core. It’s not a breakdown.”

 

[lazycop]

So because we lost that POS we're talking about tanking? The difference between him being here and not being here isn't the difference between 'We can be good, let's try to win' and 'ah, f'-it, let's tank the season away'.
Besides, I want the young guys to get used to winning, not tanking. I'm also eager to see some of these young guys trying hard with a real coach for a change.

No tanking, please.