Loose-Leafs #34: Ebs, Flows & Droughts | DaisyVision #7: Mimico Clout

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,276
9,314
Loose-Leafs
Song of the Week:High & Low by Greg Laswell


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I don't know how to feel about this.

Marlies Watch


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two sweeps and counting

Y'all - Our babies are 7-0 and in the Western Conference Finals! I know we're not supposed to expect much from them, but - this is great for their development :nod: you should watch! Also. Jerry :D :heart: (In all honesty - 14 homegrown drafted and playing the important minutes and roles. Regardless of what happens - they have a lot to be proud of, and they are living by their slogan: Every Game: Try Out.). I expect a chunk to make the team next year.

48 Years, but it wasn't All Poop.


Lately (or for a good chunk) this is how arguments regarding MLSE tend to go: They don't care about winning, because we haven't even made the finals/won the cup since 1967.

We suck because we haven't made the finals since 1967.


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that is illogical


Let's just hold the phone here. And I have to stress this very carefully:

Just because we haven't made the finals since 1967 - doesn't exclude the fact that the organization had some chances to go there and/or win. No matter how Glenn Healy and others want to beat that drum. While it sucks - the Leafs had been in positions to move forward.

And something else I'd like to stress: if and or when the Leafs get a good team again - one that can challenge for a cup - it doesn't automatically guarantee that the Leafs will make the finals/win the cup either. Case in point:

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Both teams heavily touted as cup favourites this season


Some people are going to go "well, duh." but I think it's very clear to point this out. We have now gotten to the point where we take every single year since this happened:

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stuffed it in box, and labeled it "the Leafs suck, and Ballard/Stavros/Tannebaum" ownership just sucks, and we'll never win anything until ______________.



I know the goal is to win - but every team goes through their Ebs and Flows, a lot of teams go through droughts, and there are a lot of good teams that haven't been to the finals yet. (I fully acknowledge that my numbers can be off 1 or 2. Dyscalulia. deal with it ;) )




The Red Wings went through 41 years of drought (1955-1996) before they won the cup back to back.

The Chicago Blackhawks went through 49 years (1961-2010) and 2012.

The New York Rangers went 50 years before they won their cup - and then 20 years since that time.

The Boston Bruins went 39 years before they won in 2011.

The Philadelphia Flyers have also gone 38 years since their last cup win

The LA Kings went 45 years before they won their cup.

San Jose Sharks: 23 years without a cup win

St Louis Blues: 47 years without a cup win.

Toronto Maple Leafs: 47 years and counting.

And within those droughts - teams go through ups and downs. Clearly - right now we're in a down swing - and have been in one for a decade, and this is what Nonis, & Shanahan has to address within a cap era. Not just to build a team and a prospect system to get us back to an upswing era - but to minimize the downswings, or to make them as minuscule as possible. (i.e.: make the playoffs for 5 years blow it for one (ie top 10 pick), make the playoffs for 6 years, etc).

But the Leafs have had some good upswings too

We made the Western Finals in 93. [yes I know what happened, let it go, already].
In 94 we made the Western finals again and lost to Vancouver.
In 99 we made the Eastern Finals and we were beaten by spidergoalie Hasek
in 00 and 01 we made the Eastern Semifinals
In 02 we made the eastern finals (but as far as I know - no team has won the cup winning 3 game sevens which the Leafs would have had to have happen, after going through two battles with the Islanders & Senators)
and two more berths before the Lockout.


It's not right to discount those years at all, simply because the Leafs didn't make the finals. Yes - they made curious decisions in management, drafting, etc and that shouldn't be ignored - but when it comes to the playoffs - anything can happen. Teams get upset, teams Cinderella, and that's where you trust systems, your team mates, and see what happens. That's two totally different things.

Which Brings on the Shanahan Administration:

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who me?


Who is making changes (slow as molasses) for some and are making judgments on every move (or non moves) he makes. But I feel that I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. I did it for JFJ

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I did it for Burke

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And I did it for Nonis

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So at the very least - I owe it to Shanahan to see what his plan is. I want to know what it is, like yesterday - but I think it's going to be okay, and that an upswing is coming. I hope that management will be capable enough to secure the upswing to give us as many tools as possible to go for a cup run (and win), and eliminate horrendous downswings that we often go through.


DaisyVision #7: David Clarkson, Dave Bolland, Mason Raymond: the Third Line. (also - suspended/injured line).

I have lived in Toronto my entire life and I have never heard of Mimico. After this year, I wish I never had. (sigh). Everyone kept wishing Nonis didn't sign Clarkson because his contract didn't make sense... I wish Nonis didn't sign Clarkson because of the sheer amount of complaining and whinging everyone made about Clarkson ;)

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We all know it. He was the biggest fish last year at Free Agency, he could have gone to Ottawa (wish you did), could have gone to Edmonton (I hear winter is cold there) but he wanted to be on his hometown team, and wear the jersey his hometown favourite player wore, and all of that.

[I am now mad that Wendel Clark did not play for Edmonton. This could have all been avoided had #17 in the Blue and White once upon a time, wore blue and bronze instead].

And Nonis said something I think that he should 100 percent be held accountable for, and I'm surprised the media did not fling this in his face at all this season: "I do not care about years 6-7. I care about year one."

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It's like. Seriously? Come. on. I mean don't wave the red flag in front of the Hockey Gods. Something like that just should not be said in regards to the Maple Leafs. Anyway - it was said, and this is where it all went to pot.

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oh. crap. My season's totally screwed up now, isn't it?

2 suspensions, 3 injures that took him out of the line up for several games, and 11 points for when he was up here. I think it's pretty obvious he's not that bad - but that's not the point. The point is - I wish that some people in management (not just the Leafs) would look at who is in free agency - and where exactly they played on the team they're leaving. what their role was and what you want their role to be here. Clarkson - never stood (and quite frankly, unless he wins the stanley cup winning goal) will never stand a chance here. He didn't build up any equity with fans, and even if he did, he. sucked.

[I maintain a huge chunk of that has to be with the bursitis he has in his elbow. to which I have to say "park your booty in IR and stop playing and making us play you."]

And he's getting more money... next year :facepalm: So he's already failed up to live up to his contract this year and was brutal, and everyone hates him. so not only does he have to play better to justify the contract AND make up for year one.... he needs to be better this year, to justify the contractual raise the contract he should never have gotten gave him.

this man. is so screwed here.

But - he did give us this beauty




My hope for him: the Leafs build this man a gym and his personal Barb Underhill and he doesn't leave the gym and skating coach until he stops falling on his bum.

Or he gets traded and I never hear of David Clarkson and Mimico again.

Oh. Wait.

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Damnit.

I would give anything for this organization to stop trading for people in their UFA year, unless they plan on signing them the moment they get them. Or trading for unsigned RFAs. Just stop trading for people unless there are years attached. The end.

So this is the other part of the Mimico line, and the reason why we missed the playoffs, because had Dave Bolland played every game (or you know, not missed 3/4s of the season) we'd be okay. Anyway. We do what we always do - call up the cup winning blackhawks and go "Hey, can we have a piece that you know, kinda of did stuff?" (this one scored the cup winning goal. progress. progress.).

But the first 15 games, Bolland was playing extremely well. And this was my favourite goal of his:



(Coincidentally, this was the last game that Cody Franson played well all season).

The Leafs are winning, he's scoring game winning goals all over the place (you know, practicing for when he needed to do it in the playoffs for us, and all. Bolland wins games dontch'a know), and then.. This happened.




The Leafs win 3-4 games that month, and we're thinking he's coming back before the Olympic break but he doesn't play again until Early March. (which, by then we're already mired in the most awful slump, the playoffs are slipping away with every loss, and Bolland comes back playing like crap - which was a given considering the man could barely play well).

And now. we have to figure out do we let someone who is wanting David Clarkson money (which, you have to admit is not as bad as him wanting Ryan Callahan money of 7x7 let's all be thankful for that) simply walk away and hit Nonis with rocks for giving up 3 picks for him

Or do we sign him, because the Leafs clearly need his leadership, and work ethic. (clear sign he's not deluded. He (and everyone else) goes after the Winnipeg game, the last home game of the season "we were outworked." Captain goes "nah, we're good.") Everyone wants him back (Nonis - for obvious reasons, Carlyle because he loves him and Shanahan because... why? support for Phaneuf? to make him the new Captian (because we're trading Phaneuf to move up in the draft, please, please)? there are so many questions and I don't know. The biggest one is: how is his ankle? can he skate properly again. He's only 28, but skating was an issue for him before the injury.

My believe is - Nonis isn't going to sign him for Clarkson Money. (he can't). so the deal is do you sign your 3rd line/2nd line sometimes centre Bozak like money (so that's 2 centres at 4.2-5 million), Kadri and then what? Or do we let him go. We'll have to see.

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this is the kind of deals Nonis should be making. 1 million deals to help secure lineup pieces, and when the year is up, shake their hand and move on. (because I don't want Mason Raymond back here). He was good here, but you can tell at some point his focus was all on "contract." He barely passed the puck, he made really dumb decisions (as did the whole team), and he really.... he just bugged me. there was just something about his play that made me go, "are you freaking, serious right now?"

(I can't even remember the game, but what clearly summed up how I think most of us felt about him, and how our season was going to end was when Raymond had a breakaway.....and he outdekes himself and crashes into the end boards. :shakehead)

But! this was my favourite goal from his. Also. This was the last time we won in March. (we don't win again until April, and yah. sigh).




And of course - he took out senators, because he was just so amazing.
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Mayray being amazing

I doubt he's coming back (there's no point). He'll demand more money than we should be paying him, and there are other players I feel that we should be going after way before him. He did his job, he provided secondary scoring... and that's about it. See yah, dude.

See you next week
 

Ari91

Registered User
Nov 24, 2010
9,900
30
Toronto
So many people like to point out how we don't have any kind of player like Clark or Sundin or Gilmour yet when it's convenient, these guys get pigeon holed into the same category as today's Leafs and the Leafs of the 80s because of miserable, 'everything sucks all the time' attitude of some fans. Ultimate success is the Cup but there is success in being a competitive team and the Leafs had their moments along the years (wish they were able to do sustain those periods longer than they had though). It's still insulting that people can so easily disregard those moments those guys have given Leafs fans.

I'll always get a kick out of the water bottle incident, haha. Clarkson had a bad year. I'm going to be nice and just wipe the slate clean come next season and let that be his do or die year in my eyes. I don't care about his contract per se. I don't care how much any player makes so long as he's contributing to the team in a positive way that doesn't make his cap hit a hindrance to the team's ability to improve if the opportunity presents itself. Clarkson's contract was the latter this season. He took up a lot of cap room, didn't pull his weight (at all) and then we hear the Leafs had a better deal on the table for Vanek but couldn't do it because they couldn't fit him under the cap and the other team didn't want to retain any salary.

Bolland...I like the guy but man, it's going to be tough to see him walk after giving up 2 picks for him and it'll be tough to see him return with some inflated contract to a guy who can't (or shouldn't) be anything more than a bottom 6 player for us. The only medium is signing him for a fair deal and with him being an impending UFA, I don't think Bolland has enough 'Leafs pride' to take a hometown deal to play with a team who's future he may not even be sold on.

Raymond, you were serviceable while you were here and I hope it was enough to grab you a contract elsewhere but not here. Unless you wanna come back for $1M again, I'm not going to consider it.

And finally Shanny...I don't care how pessimistic people want to be, I've given everyone the benefit of the doubt when they came in and Shanny will be no different. It also doesn't hurt that Shanny is probably the most well spoken and sensible sounding guy I've heard speak from within the Leafs organization in a while.
 

Schenn

In Rod We Trust
Sponsor
Feb 24, 2009
34,093
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Huron County
Good read as always Daisy! One thing though... I'm rather confused how Clarkson had 5 goals, 4 assists and 11points. ;)
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,276
9,314
Good read as always Daisy! One thing though... I'm rather confused how Clarkson had 5 goals, 4 assists and 11points. ;)

well just like Clarkson can't stay on his his feet, I can't count ;)
i am pretty sure he had 11, so i flubbed up on his assists) :)

thanks y'all.
 

91Stammer*

Registered User
Feb 11, 2014
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Leafland/Richland
It's ironic that some typical leafs fan wants to pay McClement 1.5-2 million and wants MayRay, who had been excellent through out the year and had been providing secondary scoring time to time, to play for a same discounted contract. Plain and simple. HORRIBLE
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
40,573
10,539
It's ironic that some typical leafs fan wants to pay McClement 1.5-2 million and wants MayRay, who had been excellent through out the year and had been providing secondary scoring time to time, to play for a same discounted contract. Plain and simple. HORRIBLE

Mc is worthless and easily replaced but MayRay if he comes at 3m is worth keeping 3x3m is a half decent value.

Drop Orr, Mc, Mc.

Same for Kules 3x3 is perfectly fine and Bolland 3.5m. If you consider that a line it's about 10m. Kessel JVR Bozak 16m, Kadri Lupul Clarkson 14m (Clarkson contract screws up everything). 3m 4th line
43m Offense leaves 27 for D and G.

We can probably offer Bolland 4m but the thing is these players have to expect they are priced to sell which is the whole point of resigning them.
 

Ari91

Registered User
Nov 24, 2010
9,900
30
Toronto
It's ironic that some typical leafs fan wants to pay McClement 1.5-2 million and wants MayRay, who had been excellent through out the year and had been providing secondary scoring time to time, to play for a same discounted contract. Plain and simple. HORRIBLE

The only reason why people don't want Raymond back for more than he's currently making is because Raymond's style of play is redundant on the Leafs. Leafs have too many scorers without the defensive depth to their game. It has nothing to do with Raymond not being worth more than 1M. Teams have role players and McClement is a very effective role player when used correctly. The only area of ice where the Leafs aren't porous defensively is in net. That's it. The team needs to take their money and invest in top 6 forwards and D that can positively address that situation. Hypothetically, you may be sacrificing some offense but you only need to score one more goal than the other team to win the game. Even as good as our offense can be, needing to score 4-5 goals a night is a tall order in an 82 game season.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
40,573
10,539
The only reason why people don't want Raymond back for more than he's currently making is because Raymond's style of play is redundant on the Leafs. Leafs have too many scorers without the defensive depth to their game. It has nothing to do with Raymond not being worth more than 1M. Teams have role players and McClement is a very effective role player when used correctly. The only area of ice where the Leafs aren't porous defensively is in net. That's it. The team needs to take their money and invest in top 6 forwards and D that can positively address that situation. Hypothetically, you may be sacrificing some offense but you only need to score one more goal than the other team to win the game. Even as good as our offense can be, needing to score 4-5 goals a night is a tall order in an 82 game season.

Correction, MayRays play could get better under a system not named the Swarm. Is his defensive play systemic? Is it because he was trying his best to pad his stats for contract negotiations? We don't know so I he comes value priced short term why not try it out?

I have little faith any of the 3 will agree to short value terms anyways but if you can, why not?
 

Ari91

Registered User
Nov 24, 2010
9,900
30
Toronto
Correction, MayRays play could get better under a system not named the Swarm. Is his defensive play systemic? Is it because he was trying his best to pad his stats for contract negotiations? We don't know so I he comes value priced short term why not try it out?

I have little faith any of the 3 will agree to short value terms anyways but if you can, why not?

Correction - Raymond came exactly as advertised by the Canucks fans. He was a fast skater, but a poor skater. His defensive game was lacking and he was a good but inconsistent scorer. Check, check and check. Maybe a particular system could improve his defensive game but considering that he's played the same style of game under two different coaches, two different systems and with two different groups of teammates, I'm saying the odds are that Raymond's overall value as a player isn't THAT much more than we've already seen of him. Investing in players who's weaknesses fall in line with team weaknesses is exactly why the Leafs are constantly stuck in no man's land. Instead of signing guys for the hell of it and saying 'why not?', I'd rather they go out there and actually look for players who are an asset to an area of the team game that is currently lacking.
 

Dirty Dan

Saturday Night Lupul
May 5, 2010
4,490
1,368
in ur crease
Mayray is a scorer without defensive depth but id rather have a lineup of scorers than "defensive players" who have the worst pk in the league.

This team was meant to play an aggressive style and now that we have quality goaltending they flip it around.
 

Ari91

Registered User
Nov 24, 2010
9,900
30
Toronto
Mayray is a scorer without defensive depth but id rather have a lineup of scorers than "defensive players" who have the worst pk in the league.
This team was meant to play an aggressive style and now that we have quality goaltending they flip it around.

That doesn't even make any sense. It's all relative. The PK is made up of the most capable players available, that doesn't mean that they're all great defensive players. And if you're going by this season, sure go ahead and ignore that our best PKers are McClement, Kulemin, Bozak and presumably Bolland was supposed to be a boost to the PK as well. So 2 of the 4 best PKers were injured for a long period of time and one of them was overworked by his coach because of the injuries elsewhere in the line up which resulted in the PK specialist (McClement) to become less effective in the one area that was his most obvious strength. After the PK went through a really bad stretch, it eventually picked up but the damage was done and it would have taken numbers of epic proportions to get their overall PK% up to a good number.
 

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