Looking ahead - The 2019-20 roster thread

[deadhead]

That is such a boring and myopic way to view things. Sure they had the entry draft, which is why they had no true 1st line, but they also only had the ED and one amateur draft.

Hextall has had 5 amateur drafts, and drafting is the one thing everyone can typically agree he should be praised for. He has the bodies available (and check book) in order to sign non-garbage players. Raffl is a success, Lehtera a failure, all those kids, still question marks.

Still, the thought exercise of needing to dress a nostalgic 4th line is just wrong. The 4th line can be something more than just "heaviness". Lest we forget, the Honey Bees Line was, for a brief moment, the best 4th line in hockey.

The ED allowed you to choose from proven NHL players, who need zero years to make an impact.

That gave LV a huge advantage (along with some brain dead GMs who made some horrid deals), teams could only protect 7 forwards, that meant the 8th to 10th (depending how many of your top nine were exempt) forward had to be exposed.
On bad teams that meant LV was choosing the best 4th line player, on good teams a solid 9 forward or a prospect (Tuch) with top 6 potential. Since they had 30 picks, they were sure to end up with 15-20 NHL ready forwards of various quality.

Hextall only had a pocketbook the last two years, before that they were severely cap constrained, he traded Hartnell and other veterans to make cap room, pulled off a miracle dumping Vinnie's deal, moved Pronger, and finally got out of cap hell.

He's only given out two FA contracts of any length, Weise and JVR.
Who else should he have signed this offseason?

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's about time to figure out what Stolarz is.

 

[Ruck Over]

The ED allowed you to choose from proven NHL players, who need zero years to make an impact.

That gave LV a huge advantage (along with some brain dead GMs who made some horrid deals), teams could only protect 7 forwards, that meant the 8th to 10th (depending how many of your top nine were exempt) forward had to be exposed.
On bad teams that meant LV was choosing the best 4th line player, on good teams a solid 9 forward or a prospect (Tuch) with top 6 potential. Since they had 30 picks, they were sure to end up with 15-20 NHL ready forwards of various quality.

Hextall only had a pocketbook the last two years, before that they were severely cap constrained, he traded Hartnell and other veterans to make cap room, pulled off a miracle dumping Vinnie's deal, moved Pronger, and finally got out of cap hell.

He's only given out two FA contracts of any length, Weise and JVR.
Who else should he have signed this offseason?

Whom else should have Hextall signed? I dunno, why I'm here chatting with you instead of in an NHL front office. Player(s) better than Jori Lehtera is a fair start though.

If Hextall had a pocketbook the last two years, then that is two years of potential improvement over the previous 3 years, so trending up.

Vegas was unique, but let's not go over board and say proven NHL players who needed zero years to make an impact. That's heavy hyperbole. Had most of the teams that surrendered xyz player (Lumbus, Panthers near the top) had any inkling those players were able to perform in the manner they did, they'd still be with the original team. Vegas' best attribute, forced management decision, was getting a bunch of guys and giving them a chance to play. That's the point being made about not having a traditional 4th line, and giving young players not ready to fill top 6 expected potential roles, a taste of NHL play in a more sheltered bottom 6 role. They go through their contract years faster, but in a position of fewer minutes, less-no PP time, the stats won't be there for the expense to balloon.
Many others have said this previously, I'm not the first, nor the most articulate, but gosh darn it I'll repeat it until it gets through. There is no reason for Lehtera to be on this roster when NAK is in the AHL. There was no reason to waive Martel when Weise was still on the roster. That's the BS being called out here.

 

[deadhead]

We're going to have to expose a good player in the 2020 ED draft, if we protect 4 defensemen, a really good forward.

 

[Ruck Over]

We're going to have to expose a good player in the 2020 ED draft, if we protect 4 defensemen, a really good forward.

1st world problems. That makes extra space for the plethora of draft picks Hextall has been hoarding.

 

[Bruckuss]

Finally, the goalies.

Sandstrom (22) and Hart (21) are the only goalies under contract for 19-20 right now.

Elliott (34), Neuvirth (31) and Pickard (27) are UFAs.

Lyon (26) and Stolarz (25) are RFAs.

My pants just got tighter, F this carousel, let's get to the main event already!

 

[Deadpool8812]

Finally, the goalies.

Sandstrom (22) and Hart (21) are the only goalies under contract for 19-20 right now.

Elliott (34), Neuvirth (31) and Pickard (27) are UFAs.

Lyon (26) and Stolarz (25) are RFAs.

Lyon is on a one-way deal in 19-20. He was re-signed to a 2 year deal this past summer

 

[Curufinwe]

You’re right. I forgot Lyon got two years.

 

[Frickley]

Every slumping player going against the flyers:

 

[achdumeingute]

Whom else should have Hextall signed? I dunno, why I'm here chatting with you instead of in an NHL front office. Player(s) better than Jori Lehtera is a fair start though.

If Hextall had a pocketbook the last two years, then that is two years of potential improvement over the previous 3 years, so trending up.

Vegas was unique, but let's not go over board and say proven NHL players who needed zero years to make an impact. That's heavy hyperbole. Had most of the teams that surrendered xyz player (Lumbus, Panthers near the top) had any inkling those players were able to perform in the manner they did, they'd still be with the original team. Vegas' best attribute, forced management decision, was getting a bunch of guys and giving them a chance to play. That's the point being made about not having a traditional 4th line, and giving young players not ready to fill top 6 expected potential roles, a taste of NHL play in a more sheltered bottom 6 role. They go through their contract years faster, but in a position of fewer minutes, less-no PP time, the stats won't be there for the expense to balloon.
Many others have said this previously, I'm not the first, nor the most articulate, but gosh darn it I'll repeat it until it gets through. There is no reason for Lehtera to be on this roster when NAK is in the AHL. There was no reason to waive Martel when Weise was still on the roster. That's the BS being called out here.

Hexy didn't sign Lehtera though. He is here to facilitate getting 2 firsts. I'll agree, from a talent perspective, he shouldn't be here, but they can't just get rid of him without penalty. We have another year with no real goalie and a young defense. I doubt the org views this team as a real contender, so then...why buy him out this year pushing the problem another year, just so he's not here. Eat the money one more year and be done. Perhaps they have a specific goal in mind with NAK, and want him to develop that in the AHL still.

In terms of Vegas, FLA wanted to keep the 4 d, so that meant keeping less forwards. Mark Pysyk was the guy they kept vs Marchessault...Smith, he was good before, so not a shock for him to rebound some. I get deadheads point, Vegas was the only ED team this year (they didn't have to compete with other teams as in past EDs), and they essentially got to pick "developed" but unproven players. With the regular draft it takes longer to build things back up from nothing (like we were...nobody in the farm in 15). The test will be in the next two years...how do all these draftee's elevate the team.

 

[Ruck Over]

Hexy didn't sign Lehtera though. He is here to facilitate getting 2 firsts. I'll agree, from a talent perspective, he shouldn't be here, but they can't just get rid of him without penalty. We have another year with no real goalie and a young defense. I doubt the org views this team as a real contender, so then...why buy him out this year pushing the problem another year, just so he's not here. Eat the money one more year and be done. Perhaps they have a specific goal in mind with NAK, and want him to develop that in the AHL still.

In terms of Vegas, FLA wanted to keep the 4 d, so that meant keeping less forwards. Mark Pysyk was the guy they kept vs Marchessault...Smith, he was good before, so not a shock for him to rebound some. I get deadheads point, Vegas was the only ED team this year (they didn't have to compete with other teams as in past EDs), and they essentially got to pick "developed" but unproven players. With the regular draft it takes longer to build things back up from nothing (like we were...nobody in the farm in 15). The test will be in the next two years...how do all these draftee's elevate the team.

It doesn't matter at all that Hextall traded for Lehtera, or why he's on the roster. The question was who should the Flyers have signed, and the simple answer was someone better than one of the worse players on the roster (whom the coach trusts to deploy with confidence for "reasons".) They have just over $7 million in cap space, and as a company, the Flyers are not a budget team worried about player salaries, especially for such a short term as one year. Lehtera does not need to be on the 23-man roster. Full stop, end of discussion.

Tell me again why Florida lost both Marchessault and Riley, and why any of that matters they went 4+4 instead of 6+3? Florida was dumb, Vegas capitalized, that's what good FO's do. The Sharks punked the Sens twice this off-season. Should the Sens get a compensatory pick because folks feel bad they are horrible? For the sake that folks are saying Seattle won't have the same options as Vegas has more to do with the other 30 FOs being bad and learning from that mistake, than it does Vegas having some unfair advantage. Vegas also didn't capitalize as much as they could've either, drafted Neal, and didn't trade him for futures, essentially letting him walk at the end of the year for nothing. So for every, Vegas was gifted, they also didn't exploit things as well as they could've. Basically, this is crying over spilled milk. Creative GMs find solutions, Hextall generally hasn't found a proactive solution to remove under performing assets/problems/personnel, rather he lets contracts end and doesn't continue chasing bad money with good.

 

[Rebels57]

MacDonald, Hagg, Weise, Hak, and Lappy will still be here. So thats fun.

 

[deadhead]

There is no reason for Lehtera to be on this roster when NAK is in the AHL. There was no reason to waive Martel when Weise was still on the roster. That's the BS being called out here.

Did you watch NAK in preseason? What did he do to convince you he's a NHL player?
All I saw was a bigger, more physical version of Leier, and note that no one claimed Leier, who is more experienced and polished than NAK, on waivers.

Why people get so up in arms about trivial differences in talent between players who'll be on the ice 9 minutes a night is beyond me.

If the Flyers season depends on replacing Lehtera with NAK until Knight is healthy, this is a pretty desperate franchise.

 

[deadhead]

And if you look at most of the 4th liners who signed in free agency, . . .

Some of those signings:

Matthew Peca 5'8 178 (26) 20g last two seasons, 4yrs college, 2yr AHL, Montreal 2yr/$2.6M
Brian Gibbons 5'8 175 (30) 59g 12-14 26 after a career in the AHL, but 44.0% Corsi, -4.3 CorsiRel, Anaheim 1yr, $1M
Chris Kunitz 5'0 195 (39) 82g 13-16 29, 50.2 Corsi, -1.7 Corsi Rel, Chi 1yr/$1M
Tomas Plekanec 5'11 193 (36) 77g 6-20 26, 50.9 Corsi, -0.7 CorsiRel, Mon 1yr/$2M, $1M possible
Kyle Brodziak 6'2 209 (34) 81g 10-23 33, 47.7 Corsi, -5.4 CorsiRel, Edm 2yr/$2.3M

Ryan Reaves 6'1 225 (31) 79g 4-6 10, 47.15 Corsi, -4.7 CorsiRel, Vegas 2yr/$5.55M
Antoine Roussel 5'11 195 (29) 73g 5-12 17, 52.4 Corsi, +2.5 CorsiRel, Van 4yr/$12M
Blake Comeau 6'1 202 (32) 79g 13-21 34, 46.6 Corsi, -1.4 CorsiRel, Dal 3yr/$7.2M
Jay Beagle 6'3 218 (33) 79g 7-15 22, 39.2 Corsi, -10.8 CorsiRel, Van 4yr/$12M
Matt Calvert 5'11 186 (29) 69g 9-15 24, 47.9 Corsi, -4.6 CorsiRel, Col 3yr/$8.4M
Leo Komarov 5'11 209 (31) 74g 7-12 19, 44.8 Corsi, -67. CorsiRel, NYI 4yr/$12M

Hey, we could have resigned Filppula for a mere $2.75M.

 

[Ruck Over]

Did you watch NAK in preseason? What did he do to convince you he's a NHL player?
All I saw was a bigger, more physical version of Leier, and note that no one claimed Leier, who is more experienced and polished than NAK, on waivers.

Why people get so up in arms about trivial differences in talent between players who'll be on the ice 9 minutes a night is beyond me.

If the Flyers season depends on replacing Lehtera with NAK until Knight is healthy, this is a pretty desperate franchise.

It's has far less to do with NAK, whom I thought played well given the jumbled nature of preseason and the coach's use of him, than it does Lehtera. Hell, the Flyers can ice Leier instead of Lehtera and I'd be happy, but Lehtera sucks and should not be on the ice. So since NAK has been in the AHL for a few years now, I'm more than ready to have him rotate with some other questionable guys as the 12th/13th forward than watch Lehtera be an absolute nothing on the ice. Do you expect the Flyers to resign Lehtera to be a member of the team following this season? If no, then that spot can be used to see what is possible with other players, Weal/Leier/Weise/NAK in order of likeliness. Weal/NAK/Leier/Weise in order of my preference.

The critique is about the Flyers not fixing obviously fixable problems. Lappy and Lehtera are the best examples.

 

[achdumeingute]

It doesn't matter at all that Hextall traded for Lehtera, or why he's on the roster. The question was who should the Flyers have signed, and the simple answer was someone better than one of the worse players on the roster (whom the coach trusts to deploy with confidence for "reasons".) They have just over $7 million in cap space, and as a company, the Flyers are not a budget team worried about player salaries, especially for such a short term as one year. Lehtera does not need to be on the 23-man roster. Full stop, end of discussion.

Tell me again why Florida lost both Marchessault and Riley, and why any of that matters they went 4+4 instead of 6+3? Florida was dumb, Vegas capitalized, that's what good FO's do. The Sharks punked the Sens twice this off-season. Should the Sens get a compensatory pick because folks feel bad they are horrible? For the sake that folks are saying Seattle won't have the same options as Vegas has more to do with the other 30 FOs being bad and learning from that mistake, than it does Vegas having some unfair advantage. Vegas also didn't capitalize as much as they could've either, drafted Neal, and didn't trade him for futures, essentially letting him walk at the end of the year for nothing. So for every, Vegas was gifted, they also didn't exploit things as well as they could've. Basically, this is crying over spilled milk. Creative GMs find solutions, Hextall generally hasn't found a proactive solution to remove under performing assets/problems/personnel, rather he lets contracts end and doesn't continue chasing bad money with good.

in terms of spending money, when snider was here, that was definitely true. now that he's no longer running the show and the team is more "corporate" who knows what the directive is.

Vegas didn't have an unfair advantage, but they did have a UNIQUE advantage. They got an opportunity to force teams to give them 30 "NHL ready" players. They also got lucky that MAF regained form to a top level goalie...not to mention that he was even available.

Hextall has definitely creatively gotten out of a few deals.

 

[achdumeingute]

The critique is about the Flyers not fixing obviously fixable problems. Lappy

Zero argument here. I have no idea why he is still in the role he is. If you like him as a person you can still give him a job, but the results on ice have been so bad here.

 

[deadhead]

When you compare Knight/Lehtera/Weal/Leier with what was available in free agency, you can see why Ron stayed with his own players.
The one year players were version of Martel (Peca, Gibbons), or really old guys like Kunitz who are on the verge of falling off the cliff.

The "solid" fourth line guys got top 3rd line money, $9-12M is an awful lot to pay over 3-4 years for a player who'd be in the press box next year next to Weise.

 

[Alex91]

I’ll shake it up a little

Giroux-Patrick-Lindblom
JVR-Couts-TK
Frost-Vorobyev-Voracek
Raffl-Rubstov-NAK

Provy-Ghost
Sanheim-Myers
Morin-Gudas

Hart
Lyon

 

[deadhead]

Who's going to handle the puck for Morin - Gudas?
And where's Twarynski? It'll be interesting to see how he plays compared to NAK.
Raffl is a free agent after this year, though he looked good in preseason, I think he may be resigned to a short-term deal, easier than resigning Simmonds.

 

[CapnZin]

If I had to make an unbiased attempt at a lineup:

Giroux - Couts - TK
Lindblom - Patrick - Voracek
JVR - Frost/Vorobyev - FA/*/Laughton
Laughton/* - Vorobyev/Weal - FA/*

*- NAK, Allison, Twarynski, Ratcliffe, Rubtsov.

Potential Trade Chips: Rubtsov, Laberge, Weal

Leaving: Raffl, Weise, Lehtera- Weise May still be under contract, if so, then still he’ll be gone to the AHL

Provorov - Ghost
Sanheim - Myers
Hagg/Morin/Amac - Gudas/Amac

Hart/Stolarz/FA
Hart/Stolarz/Lyon

 

[Appleyard]

The UFA class could be so nice...

I was messing around the other day, and even if they missed out on a top guy, could go out and get:

Howard 2yr x 5m
Silfverberg 3yr x 5m
Donskoi/Sorensen 2yr x3m

(assuming Simmonds+Raffl let go... Silfverberg is a fantastic 5v5 and defensive winger (though having slight down year) who can put up ~40 points with no PP time, Donskoi and Sorensen are such good players who would replace Raffl for not much more money, and Raffl is a damn good player.)

I think that would improve the team, though ofc impossible to say how it falls right now and who will be available.

And re-sign the kids, buy-out AMac, and still have ~$8m cap space next season with a 23 man roster.

 

[Prongo]

I’ve already said my wish list. It’s not too much to ask for! I’m hoping we trade Simmonds and get a late first from a team like Nashville. Or if Pang was right and the flyers were talking to St. Louis about a Simmonds+ swap for Pietrangelo. Holy hell I would make that deal.

Trade for Quick! Haha haters
Sign Panarin!
1st rounder+ for Trouba.
Macdonald traded/bought out.

I don’t think a team would make this many big moves in one offseason. It why I believe that they will make a few trades in season and then make one blockbuster this off season and sign Panarin.

 

[backburner]

Trade Konency and Patrick for RFA rights to Matthews

 

[Rodu58]

the gap in plus/minus for Simmonds and Voracek and the rest of the forwards is huge. Sad they are dragging down Coutts