Logjam at forward? A closer look.

[Winger98]

If Helm isn't ready, that's when I'd consider letting Glendening compete with Emmerton for that 4c job out of camp. Emmerton just isn't anything special, and if Glendening looks like he'll at least win 50% of his draws, I think he'd be just as effective at the PK and the eight or so ES minutes Emmerton handles.

 

[Winger98]

I have to agree. Sheahan and Ferraro aren't guys who should be locks for roster spots in camp, as Nyquist and Tatar were, to an extent, last year, had Holland not signed Sammy et al. Jurco is a little ways off, Jarnkrok needs some seasoning in the AHL, and Sheahan and Ferraro need to do a bit of work before they get up here.

Will Jarnkrok definitely stay over and play in GR or will he go back to Sweden? I thought there was some question about that awhile back.

 

[Leadzedder]

Agreed. Regarding our prospects.....

Tatar, Nyquist and Andersson are (after tonight) red wings. I don't think they were kept down too long. They are dominant in ahl. And will now make an impact in the NHL.

Jurco, Sheahan, Ferraro, Jarnkrok, possible Pulkinnen are all a year away. Let them dominate the ahl this year. I don't think there's any questions at all about promotions for this year. We know who's up. We know who is down.

Now the following year is when roster spots get tricky. Those 4-5 forwards will be ready. We will need spots.

The following year we are gonna get flooded by quality dmen looking for spots. So the corcerned is legit, just a year early.

What we should be focused on is..... Upgrading some people. Flip. Sammy. Quincey. Etc.

Personally I don't care if holland collects forwards all summer. You'd rather be fat with assets than thin. As long as he has a plan in place to trim down for opening day if need be.

 

[GrindNMuck]

There simply isn't one at this time. I've seen fretting about it in nearly every thread. Hand-wringing over the possibility of Tatar being waived or traded. Anger over Cleary possibly coming back, to join Bert and Sammy as "the old useless fart trifecta." Frustration over a perceived plethora of 4th-liners taking spots away from prospects. I understand people have their favorites and their loathed scapegoats, or hate veterans and love prospects, but let's add some perspective in terms of the "logjam at forward" idea.....

First of all, it's the middle of June. We are not on the verge of training camp. There's two and a half months to sort things out. That alone precludes a logjam. There may be a lot of logs floating down a narrowing river, but they aren't jammed yet, and there's time to clear away a few that are closer to the riverbank. And there are some close to the riverbank.

There are 17 forwards in play, and the Wings will almost certainly carry 14, so at least 3 need to go. By my count, there are only 11 forwards who are sure bets to be on the roster:

Sure Bets
Zetterberg
Datsyuk
Franzen
Cleary
Tootoo
Abdelkader
Miller
Eaves
Andersson
Nyquist
Tatar

Yes, I have Cleary as a sure bet. He wants to come back, the Wings want him back.... there is literally no obstacle in front of Cleary being re-signed, imo.

I also think Eaves and Tootoo are also perfectly safe. The Wings value both players, and both are under contract. Neither are going anywhere, assuming they stay healthy.

That leaves 6 guys for 3 spots; 3 forwards will have to be traded, waived, bought out, placed on LTIR, or allowed to leave via free agency. Looking at each category....

Free Agency
Filppula - It would appear that he is as good as gone. I don't believe the Wings aren't trying to re-sign him, but how half-hearted is the attempt? He's reportedly asking for much more than the Wings are willing to pay, his level of play has drastically dropped off, and we have at least one kid who is ready to step into the top-6. He's a perfect candidate to open a spot for a younger player. I think he's almost certainly gone.

Brunner - Like Cleary, the Wings want him and he wants the Wings. But unlike Cleary, his exact value is not clear, and he's young enough to try to get a bigger contract elsewhere. I believe he and the Wings will come to an agreement, but I don't think it's a certainty. It's possible we lose him.

LTIR
Helm - This back thing really sucks. Much more for him than his fans, I'm sure. Will he be healthy at the start of next season? I have no freakin' clue, and I don't believe anyone else who posts here has a clue either, regardless of optimism or defeatist attitudes. He could be perfectly healthy and ready to go, or be put right back on the IR, neither would surprise me. He's a complete wildcard.

Bertuzzi - His back is in pretty bad shape as well. And he's old. Will he heal enough? Again, it's a question mark. If he's not ready to go, but thinks he will be at some point, he's an LTIR candidate.

Samuelsson - Bad shoulder. May have surgery. If he hasn't been bought out, he's another LTIR candidate.

Buy Out
Samuelsson - He appears to be the most likely forward to be bought out, given his combination of cap hit, health, and performance. More likely than not, I think the Wings will not buy him out, but I won't be surprised if they do.

Bertuzzi - Similar to Samuelsson, his effectiveness is questionable and he also has health problems. But he's cheaper and I get the impression the Wings think more of him than they do Sammy. Bert is probably the second most likely forward to be bought out. If he's not ready to go health-wise, and doesn't think he ever will be, he's a clear buy out candidate.

Waived
Emmerton - The guy who probably has to wait and see what happens to everyone else. But namely Helm. I think if Helm isn't ready, they hang on to Emmerton to be the 4th-line forward. And if Helm is ready, and there's still a roster crunch, Emmerton is prime waiver material.

Traded
None - I don't think it's necessary, given the other options here, but it's certainly a possibility.

With Filppula virtually gone, and either Helm on LTIR or Emmerton waived, there's only one more spot to be cleared. And both Bertuzzi and Samuelsson are strong candidates for buy outs. At this point I would bet that one of them does in fact get bought out (if Bert decides his playing days are over, it will be him; if not, it will be Samuelsson). And now we're down to 14. No worries about Miller blocking Tatar, "the old useless fart trifecta" staying together, or Cleary eating Detroit-area babies. I know this leaves no room for Horton, but he wasn't coming here anyway

Disagree here on some of your (SURE BETS) Eaves, Cleary shouldn't be on there.

-And your Free Agent list of the wings not signing are Brunner, Flippula, The wings most likely re-sign Brunner, if he doesn't go back to the Swiss. Flippula is 50/50 right now. If he is willing to agree on a good contract not as what he is asking for which is like 5 million or something or higher, The wings are trying to reach a 3 million contract.

** The Wavier and buyout is wrong. They will most likely keep bertuzzi until he retires. They will buyout Samulleson and Eaves (If not traded) They wont waive Emmerton, He would either stay in Detroit or traded.


-They will keep forsure, Helm,Datsyuk,Zetty,Franzen,Kronwall,Smith,Dekyser,Abdelkader,Bertuzzi, Miller,Tootoo,Ericsson,Kindl,Quincey,Howard

50/50-Either traded or waived or free agent.

1. Flipulla

2. Cleary

3. Samullssen

4. Eaves

5. Colaiacovo

6. Gustavason
_____

Gone forsure.

Ian White

 

[WingedWheel1987]

If Ken Holland wasn't the GM of the Red Wings, I might understand your perspective. He will do nothing in June and nothing in July .

 

[Gyldenlove]

Will Jarnkrok definitely stay over and play in GR or will he go back to Sweden? I thought there was some question about that awhile back.

I believe he will give it 1 year and if not called up by then he will go back.

 

[zecke26]

Will Jarnkrok definitely stay over and play in GR or will he go back to Sweden? I thought there was some question about that awhile back.

no question anymore. he will play in GR and/or detroit. since there's a logjam (or not ) at the moment, i'd say that jarnkrok will start in GR for sure and who knows what the season will bring.

i think on C there's no need for emmerton. andersson looked fine as 3rd C, helm is hopefully back, if not i think ferraro, sheahan, glendening and jarnkrok all provide enough depth. if helm is back, i hope they won't carry emmerton as extra F and instead call up someone if there's an injury.

 

[Leadzedder]

no question anymore. he will play in GR and/or detroit. since there's a logjam (or not ) at the moment, i'd say that jarnkrok will start in GR for sure and who knows what the season will bring.

i think on C there's no need for emmerton. andersson looked fine as 3rd C, helm is hopefully back, if not i think ferraro, sheahan, glendening and jarnkrok all provide enough depth. if helm is back, i hope they won't carry emmerton as extra F and instead call up someone if there's an injury.

But Zecke... The wings will carry 14 forwards. 2 will be spares. Who do want as 13 and 14th forward? For those spots you need guys that you can plug in when you need them. You don't want prospects in those spots. Cheap depth that play well within the system and doesn't hurt you to put in the lineup. You want tootoos, emmertons, mark mowers'. Not jarnkroks and jurcos.

533k cap hit. With what he brings. Not stalling his development by sitting. He's perfect for a spare spot if the numbers permit.

 

[fimoknete]

i would prefer to get rid of the logjam by trading player away for more quality in the team.
would be nice to have player in the roster because we need them instead of just because we have them.
i dont see the reason for keeping prospects only because people wanna have prospects.
i am still waiting for the replacements for all the rafalski, lidstrom & hossa like player we lost.
it will be another season without any improvement. just decline until dats and zetta cant bail us out anymore. dont wanna see this big crunch then.

 

[Birko19]

That depends on what you consider a logjam. To be honest, even though we have a lot of forwards that are ready to play, we do lack the quality if you ask me.

We need to drop old weight. Let Cleary walk and buyout one of Samuelsson or Bertuzzi (Realistically we're not gonna buy out both, and of the two I'd rather keep Bertuzzi). Keep Nyquist, Tatar and Andersson full-time and resign Brunner. Also if you're gonna let Filppula walk, we need a replacement. Perhaps someone like Weiss might do. We're also gonna need to deal with the extra depth forwards we have like Tootoo and Emmerton. Either we trade/buyout one of them or put them on waivers. Basically here's what the line-up should look like:

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Franzen
Weiss - Zetterberg - Brunner
Abdelkader - Helm - Tatar
Miller - Andersson - Eaves
Emmerton/Bertuzzi/Tootoo

Let the likes of Jurco, Sheahan, Jarnkrok etc develop in the AHL with possible call-ups based on injuries from the big club.

 

[zecke26]

But Zecke... The wings will carry 14 forwards. 2 will be spares. Who do want as 13 and 14th forward? For those spots you need guys that you can plug in when you need them. You don't want prospects in those spots. Cheap depth that play well within the system and doesn't hurt you to put in the lineup. You want tootoos, emmertons, mark mowers'. Not jarnkroks and jurcos.

533k cap hit. With what he brings. Not stalling his development by sitting. He's perfect for a spare spot if the numbers permit.

one of eaves/miller for example would be a good extra forward. or a guy like tootoo. they are winger who offer a certain skill. PK or grit. but emmerton offers nothing IMO. he's a center who can't win FOs.