Player Discussion Logan Brown

[bert]

Remember when everyone wanted to emulate Detroit and keep players in the AHL for as long possible?

Feels like a lifetime ago.

Tampa and Pittsburgh have been doing it and it sure works well for them.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Remember when everyone wanted to emulate Detroit and keep players in the AHL for as long possible?

Feels like a lifetime ago.

what people didn't understand is that their prospects HAD to stay in the ahl because their NHL team was so stacked.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Tampa and Pittsburgh have been doing it and it sure works well for them.

theres a common theme here... detropit, Pittsburgh, tampa… carried by absolute super stars and some of the best rosters assembled of the last 20 years (obviously not right now).. they could afford to do that, 20 year olds couldn't crack their roster.

 

[DJB]

For anyone that sees lots of games . Who's the catalyst ? Logan brown or Batherson ?

 

[Sensinitis]

For anyone that sees lots of games . Who's the catalyst ? Logan brown or Batherson ?

Haven't seen more than a few periods from different games when I have the time, but both seem to create a lot because of their awesome patience and vision. Both ES and on the PP. They feed off each other a lot on the PP a bit more though, for sure.

 

[jbeck5]

theres a common theme here... detropit, Pittsburgh, tampa… carried by absolute super stars and some of the best rosters assembled of the last 20 years (obviously not right now).. they could afford to do that, 20 year olds couldn't crack their roster.

Very true. There was a point where we kept sending spezza down.

If he went to a true bottom #2 team, he likely plays in the NHL right away. The next year he would have made almost every nhl team. We were stacked so we sent him down to the AHL. He wasn't gonna make our stacked top 9 and putting him on our 4th line was a waste.

But a team like us would be stupid to have a 19-20 year old spezza in the AHL.

It's all about having guys in place.

It's a reason you sign those b tier ufas when you suck so every young player can slot down and succeed. Going as cheap as possible isn't the best way to rebuild.

 

[Icelevel]

Should be in our (Ottawa’s) top six next year.

(How that works if duchene stays I don’t know)

 

[aragorn]

IMO Logan Brown is the future #1 centre on this team, whether that happens next season because they have had to trade Duchene or not remains to be seen. Brown is a big body & could easily fit on the 4th line right now & push Paul to LW as Couturier did in Philly. In fact, they could have a decent 4th line with Paul - Brown - Batherson & ease them slowly into the NHL & increase 4th line scoring. Let them play together after the trade deadline to the end of the season in the NHL to learn the ropes this yr so they can be ready to go next yr.

PD needs to move out Paajarvi & Boedker asap to make some room for some of the better prospects who are NHL ready now. In fact, he should start moving out all of the UFAs in the org asap that do not have a future with the team.

 

[Sweatred]

I agree. He gets every chance to compete for 1-2 C Along with Norris, White, etc. I assume he sees some 1C,2C,4C time.

 

[bert]

theres a common theme here... detropit, Pittsburgh, tampa… carried by absolute super stars and some of the best rosters assembled of the last 20 years (obviously not right now).. they could afford to do that, 20 year olds couldn't crack their roster.

Yeah the theme that they develop their players properly. It also helps develop players when you have strong leadership and work ethic day in day out. Chicago used to do it too. However for Tampa this started before they were a power house team, its literally how they got to this point, look at how many of their elite players werent high picks its only Hedman and Stamkos. Its exactly the formula every team should be using.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Yeah the theme that they develop their players properly. It also helps develop players when you have strong leadership and work ethic day in day out. Chicago used to do it too. However for Tampa this started before they were a power house team, its literally how they got to this point, look at how many of their elite players werent high picks its only Hedman and Stamkos. Its exactly the formula every team should be using.

Kucherovs development has nothing to do with Tampa marinating him in the AHL or developing him. They’re led by superstars. Which allow them to develop players. All initiated by tanking. Which’s scores then stamkos and Herman

 

[bert]

Kucherovs development has nothing to do with Tampa marinating him in the AHL or developing him. They’re led by superstars. Which allow them to develop players. All initiated by tanking. Which’s scores then stamkos and Herman

Tampa keeps countless players in the AHL longer than most organizations. They dont all turn into superstars but they end up being players or assets you can deal for more assets.

You can still develop properly if you dont have superstars, I dont know why you think thats the only way to do it or the only circumstance it happens in.

 

[JD1]

Yeah the theme that they develop their players properly. It also helps develop players when you have strong leadership and work ethic day in day out. Chicago used to do it too. However for Tampa this started before they were a power house team, its literally how they got to this point, look at how many of their elite players werent high picks its only Hedman and Stamkos. Its exactly the formula every team should be using.

point played 9 games in the AHL
kucherov played 17 games in the AHL
vasilevsky played 25 games in the AHL

you must have Tampa confused with another team

 

[Sensinitis]

point played 9 games in the AHL
kucherov played 17 games in the AHL
vasilevsky played 25 games in the AHL

you must have Tampa confused with another team

Now look at Cirelli, Gourde, Johnson, Killorn, Palat, etc.

It's not just about the stars!

 

[Answer]

Now look at Cirelli, Gourde, Johnson, Killorn, Palat, etc.

It's not just about the stars!

I think we are only talking about the stars. Otherwise , this discussion is irrelevant

 

[JD1]

Now look at Cirelli, Gourde, Johnson, Killorn, Palat, etc.

It's not just about the stars!

everyone of those guys except gourd was playing nhl hockey in their 2nd year of pro hockey and never looked back. I certainly wouldn't call them examples of over ripening.

gourd played over age junior. wasn't drafted. played years in the AHL and is a poster child for perseverance.

TB hit on a lot of draft picks for sure. but I wouldn't call it over ripening

by comparison Nyquist and Tatar both played parts of 4 seasons in the AHL and weren't full time NHLers until their 5th pro season

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Now look at Cirelli, Gourde, Johnson, Killorn, Palat, etc.

It's not just about the stars!

Cirelli played like 54 games in the AHL. I don't think you've really research or thought much about this topic.

 

[BondraTime]

Now look at Cirelli, Gourde, Johnson, Killorn, Palat, etc.

It's not just about the stars!

Cirelli - 54 AHL games, full time NHLer at 21
Gourde - 20 year old in Q, 3 years with Sharks AHL team. Late bloomer and kept at it, nothing to do with being developed slowly.
Johnson - 20 year old in the W. 1.5 Years in AHL, full time NHLer at 22
Killorn - 54 AHL games. Full time NHLer at 22, less than 1 year after leaving NCAA
Palat - 1.5 seasons in AHL, full time NHLer at 22
Joseph - 1 season in AHL, full time NHLer at 21
Paquette - 1 season in AHL, Full time NHLer at 21 (healthy scratch a lot)
Kuch - 17 games in the AHL, NHLer at 20
Point - Full time NHL at 20. Played 9 AHL games in his 19 year old junior season.
Sergachev - Full time NHLer at 19
Hedman
Stamkos


The only guys brought through their system that were left in the AHL are Erne and Koekkoek

They are just very good at drafting.

 

[JungleBeat]

Tampa is good at drafting excluding the first round.

 

[God Says No]

Cirelli - 54 AHL games, full time NHLer at 21
Gourde - 20 year old in Q, 3 years with Sharks AHL team. Late bloomer and kept at it, nothing to do with being developed slowly.
Johnson - 20 year old in the W. 1.5 Years in AHL, full time NHLer at 22
Killorn - 54 AHL games. Full time NHLer at 22, less than 1 year after leaving NCAA
Palat - 1.5 seasons in AHL, full time NHLer at 22
Joseph - 1 season in AHL, full time NHLer at 21
Paquette - 1 season in AHL, Full time NHLer at 21 (healthy scratch a lot)
Kuch - 17 games in the AHL, NHLer at 20
Point - Full time NHL at 20. Played 9 AHL games in his 19 year old junior season.
Sergachev - Full time NHLer at 19
Hedman
Stamkos


The only guys brought through their system that were left in the AHL are Erne and Koekkoek

They are just very good at drafting.

Pretty much this. You could have kept Lazar in the AHL for 10 years and he wouldn't have amounted to much. Maybe a slightly better 4th liner. If the guy doesn't have talent, doesn't matter how long he develops in the end.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Tampa is good at drafting excluding the first round.

So are we; Pageau, Stone, Hoffman...

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

So are we; Pageau, Stone, Hoffman...

The youngest of those guys were drafted almost 8 years ago in 2011.

Not that I think we're a bad drafting team but Tampa has been consistently great for a long time now in that department. A lot of the guys who are responsible for those good picks from 2009-2011 are long gone. Trent Mann has been fantastic though. Batherson is gonna be amazing.

 

[bert]

point played 9 games in the AHL
kucherov played 17 games in the AHL
vasilevsky played 25 games in the AHL

you must have Tampa confused with another team

Another innacurrate condescending post, man you are so consistently bad at this its truly incredible. Also if you are going to try and call someone out atleast get the correct amount of games for the players you listed.

Palat
Johnson
Joseph
Cirelly
Peca
Gourde
Erne
Killorn
Marchessault

All current NHL players that played significant time in the AHL in Tampas system.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Another innacurrate condescending post, man you are so consistently bad at this its truly incredible. Also if you are going to try and call someone out atleast get the correct amount of games.

Palat
Johnson
Joseph
Cirelly
Peca
Gourde
Erne
Killorn
Marchessault

All current NHL players that played significant time in the AHL in Tampas system.

If you look up BondraTime made a post about those players and how they actually didn’t spend much time in the AhL
Some of the players you have there don’t seem to be very good anyway?

If the AHL was all it took to create a Marchessault every team would use the AHL for a long period of time strategy. He’s a huge outlier and not a good example

 

[bert]

If you look up BondraTime made a post about those players and how they actually didn’t spend much time in the AhL
Some of the players you have there don’t seem to be very good anyway?

If the AHL was all it took to create a Marchessault every team would use the AHL for a long period of time strategy. He’s a huge outlier and not a good example

So which one is it? Both points cant be wrong. Its an outlier because it doesnt fit your narritive. Not every player develops at the same rate but they all go down to start thats the point they know when the player is ready but they make them play in the AHL. The other point I made about having a strong system and leadership allows these players to transition into the roles on the NHL team slowly. They all start at the bottom of the lineup and work their way up to the point where they find the ideal role for the player where their skill set is maximized.