Lockout Discussion Thread 4.0

[WhiskeySeven*]

I understand.

And some of you here should know better as to how negotiations go.

My sources have been verified by HF.

I wish you all a very merry Christmas.

Aw come on man, it's Christmas, don't go!

I think I somewhat agree with this statement, but then I mean I'll say that I take the information with a grain of salt. I'll be glad if this is true, but I don't expect a poster or even Fehr himself to be able to foresee the future. I mean he himself was saying that a deal is close, then the NHL came out and said WTF. So just from face value I can believe that the sentiments being expressed are genuine, but unless you have a source from both owners and players it's only a glimpse in what the feeling is from a few or one side.

Thus I appreciate the inside information even if I take it with a grain of salt myself.

But it's not even inside information at this point, it's the same post over and over "deal is imminent, keep a look out" Not to disparage the guy but it's kind of redundant at this point to keep telling us to stay vigilent.

 

[Chadstudsky]

I understand.

And some of you here should know better as to how negotiations go.

My sources have been verified by HF.

I wish you all a very merry Christmas.

I'm late to the convo. Who are you, who do you know and what do you know more than what we hear from insiders?

 

[Jigger77]

I understand.

And some of you here should know better as to how negotiations go.

My sources have been verified by HF.

I wish you all a very merry Christmas.

All the best, and Merry Christmas.


But you said the exact same thing in October, and again in November.

Having said that. I sincerely hope whoever you're talking to is right. This time.

 

[Whitesnake]

I understand.

And some of you here should know better as to how negotiations go.

My sources have been verified by HF.

I wish you all a very merry Christmas.

Most of us do know how negotiations go. And when a "deal is done", it might mean that there are a few dots on the "i's" to be added and a few crosses on the "t's" as well, yet NEVER are those additions dealbreakers. So when there are real issues, a deal doesn't exist.

Not comparing you but moreso the "events" but that's like all those phony insiders with their "a deal is done" as far as trades are concerned but then....it doesn't happen and they try to explain it by "we didn't make a mistake, that's the reality of the business". And again...that's plain BS. A trade is REALLY done when they both agreed and RARELY will you have GM's backing down on their words 'cause they'll be a target for every other GM out there. And frankly, for whoever loves to try to have the "scoop" or whatever deal is being made, cannot have the legitimacy to claim it if one day it happens, 2, 3, 6 months, 1 year or more after that. 'Cause then, the "scoop" is actually more in the category of "educated guesses". Just like those great insiders with the Habs and their big interest in Theo Peckham.....Geez, this guy has to be amongst the few untouchables in this league....So many years we're supposed to have an interest in him and yet, the Oilers are probably more interested in trading Nugent-Hopkins than him.....But hey, we kept talking we needed bigger D's....Peckham fit the bill hence WE ARE INTERESTED....Anyway, that's another story....

Anyway, we all hope that a deal is done. Yet, I do think that we will have all hope that it is true when the words is that they met again and for some consecutive days. Until then....it's tough to believe.

And merry christmas to you as well.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

What can I say, your stubbornness has no bounds..
You are now trying to tell me what I'm thinking, for what reason, I don't know.

For the third freaking time, I'm not vilifying the players, EVERYBODY involved are EQUALLY at fault. Do you understand what I'm saying?
That means owners, GMs, players, agents.

Yes, it is a loophole. Are we really going to debate that players signed through the age of 40 with front loading contracts and getting 1M at the end of it is a loophole?

Is it illegal? Are the players wrong in trying to get these deals? No.
Heck, I even said I would do the same!!!
But is it good for the league? I don't think so.
So fix the problem.

My greedy and selfish comments were about them not accepting the last deal, and how it reflects on them. But again, you've proven yourself incapable of understanding much of anything in my posts.
At this point, I could tell you my eyes are blue and you'd tell me no they're black without having seen them.

Oh ya you are very clear with your lack of bias.

Someone states the owners look for loopholes with lawyers and accountants (breaking the rules one might say) and you state "well the players hire agents" like it is some evil backhanded maneuver. That makes no sense, the agent would be there no matter what because the majority of players know little of contract negotiations.

Yes I have heard the whole "both sides are at fault" from you dozens of times after you go on a tirade about the players and how greedy/selfish they are. It is painfully obvious you don't believe the words you are typing so who are you trying to fool at this point?

You saying "are the players wrong trying to get these deals" is a perfect example of you putting all of the blame on the players when if those deals were not an option then there would be no question and no problem. If the owners could operate under the rules they set for themselves we would be watching hockey right now but it is painfully obvious they cannot control themselves. It is not a players job to run an owners team and make financial decisions for him.

My example of blaming lower income people for taking out housing loans they couldn't afford fits perfectly.

 

[Forsead]

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/353541.html

Some hopes, RDS is usually well connected with Quebec-born players.

So Bergeron return in America from Lugano, because of a possible end of the conflict. He will go to the Spengler cup before though.

 

[vokiel]

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/353541.html

Some hopes, RDS is usually well connected with Quebec-born players.

So Bergeron return in America from Lugano, because of a possible end of the conflict. He will go to the Spengler cup before though.

Every time the players and any sources associated to them became optimistic about the negotiations, everything turned to **** the next day. The players are just plain idiots. You can't follow their mood swings around and not be frustrated about the short history of this conflict.

 

[Kriss E]

My example of blaming lower income people for taking out housing loans they couldn't afford fits perfectly.

I see no point in discussing much of anything else with you.

 

[Kriss E]

Every time the players and any sources associated to them became optimistic about the negotiations, everything turned to **** the next day. The players are just plain idiots. You can't follow their mood swings around and not be frustrated about the short history of this conflict.

Yea, both sides have proven to be unreliable about optimism. At this point, stop being optimist, just get it done. I don't want to hear about optimism or good chances, as I said, just get it done.

 

[Fozz]

Do you ever get tired of being incorrect as an optimist?

Any other scenario makes no sense. The owner had a date in mind from the start and waited as long as they had to and see if the players would break. They're not going to go past that date and the season will start in mid-January.

 

[Whitesnake]

Any other scenario makes no sense. The owner had a date in mind from the start and waited as long as they had to and see if the players would break. They're not going to go past that date and the season will start in mid-January.

Possible that the owners are ready to lose that season just to get exactly what they want? 'Cause if your scenario is what you said it is, chances are players know that. And will end up having what they want which at this point, I don't see any sides breaking at this point. I would also think that losing a season to finally get a 10-year deal is probably not that bad of a solution for the owners....all things considered.

 

[Fozz]

Possible that the owners are ready to lose that season just to get exactly what they want? 'Cause if your scenario is what you said it is, chances are players know that. And will end up having what they want which at this point, I don't see any sides breaking at this point. I would also think that losing a season to finally get a 10-year deal is probably not that bad of a solution for the owners....all things considered.

The union does know this and that's why they didn't break. Last week's player vote showed this to the owners and they'll get the deal done shortly. Besides, the number of owners willing to loose a season over the existing gap is marginal at best and they realize that they managed to get a lot from the players already.

 

[Roulin]

The union does know this and that's why they didn't break. Last week's player vote showed this to the owners and they'll get the deal done shortly. Besides, the number of owners willing to loose a season over the existing gap is marginal at best and they realize that they managed to get a lot from the players already.

You might be right, but all they need to keep the lockout going is is 11 members of the BOG plus Bettman, right?

 

[Traitor8]

You might be right, but all they need to keep the lockout going is is 11 members of the BOG plus Bettman, right?

Actually it's 8 + Bettman.

 

[Hackett]

In the spring, I was one of the pessimists who thought the NHL would start in early January. Now, we are hoping for any sort of season

Once the players brought in a guy like Fehr, it was an obvious message that the they were going to play hardball, and not back down. This is why I was perplexed why it wasn't bigger news around the hockey world the day the players hired him.

I'd love to see the books for the bottom third NHL markets, and analyze their losses when playing an 82 game season opposed to ceasing to operate for a full year. If those figures are even remotely comparable, then what incentive do they have to be compromising with the players?

Having said that, I still believe there will be season. Once somebody blinks (likely the players), it should come together relatively quickly.

 

[DAChampion]

Dear owners, players,

Prior to this lockout, players were making record salaries, two thirds of teams were profitable, 26 of 30 teams had increasing franchise valuations and the league's popularity was growing by 8% a year in the USA.

Now, you are going to cancel the season over a difference in the makewhole totaling ~0.4% of revenue over the next few years, the fact the players want a deal of length 6+2 whereas the owners want an 8 year deal, and that the players want 8 year contract limits whereas the owners want 5 year contract limits.

 

[MasterD]

Dear owners, players,

Prior to this lockout, players were making record salaries, two thirds of teams were profitable, 26 of 30 teams had increasing franchise valuations and the league's popularity was growing by 8% a year in the USA.

Now, you are going to cancel the season over a difference in the makewhole totaling ~0.4% of revenue over the next few years, the fact the players want a deal of length 6+2 whereas the owners want an 8 year deal, and that the players want 8 year contract limits whereas the owners want 5 year contract limits.

They don't care about these things so much. Egos. That's what they're fighting over. Bragging rights as to who "won".

Disgusting how much no one cares about the fans in those negociations.

The players already lost more in this cancelled half-season than what the owners wanted to rollback in the first place.

 

[Odelein24]

Actually it's 8 + Bettman.

Isn't it technically 7 + Bettman as Phoenix is an automatic vote?

 

[Roulin]

Actually it's 8 + Bettman.

How so? I'm under the impression the BOG needs 2/3 of the 30 BOG reps to overrule Bettman, so, 11+commish beats 19, but 22 beats 8+commish?

 

[waffledave]

Dear owners, players,

Prior to this lockout, players were making record salaries, two thirds of teams were profitable, 26 of 30 teams had increasing franchise valuations and the league's popularity was growing by 8% a year in the USA.

Now, you are going to cancel the season over a difference in the makewhole totaling ~0.4% of revenue over the next few years, the fact the players want a deal of length 6+2 whereas the owners want an 8 year deal, and that the players want 8 year contract limits whereas the owners want 5 year contract limits.

The players have yet to agree to a linked system or 50-50... pretty big gap there.

 

[Roulin]

The players have yet to agree to a linked system or 50-50... pretty big gap there.

Actually, those are the only things that were agreed on, before the latest fit of hissy. 50/50 HRR split, $250M make whole, $50M outside the HRR split to pensions.

 

[vokiel]

Actually, those are the only things that were agreed on, before the latest fit of hissy. 50/50 HRR split, $250M make whole, $50M outside the HRR split to pensions.

Yeah conditional to 10 years with 2 years option, 5 years limit, etc.. The players said no. Right?

 

[Roulin]

Yeah conditional to 10 years with 2 years option, 5 years limit, etc.. The players said no. Right?

Well, the players countered with different terms, same money - the BOG said no and walked away. I agree with DAChampion that the gap is not large. A cancelled season over 5 vs 8 year contract limits seems ridiculous.

 

[vokiel]

Well, the players countered with different terms, same money - the BOG said no and walked away. I agree with DAChampion that the gap is not large. A cancelled season over 5 vs 8 year contract limits seems ridiculous.

Yeah of course, the Fehr's spin on it. It's complete BS

Edit: And Bettman & the owners (the ones that were there) are completely pissed about it now... I'm seeing smoke...

 

[Kriss E]

Well, the players countered with different terms, same money - the BOG said no and walked away. I agree with DAChampion that the gap is not large. A cancelled season over 5 vs 8 year contract limits seems ridiculous.

They also wanted a shorter term CBA..