LIU adding Men’s D1 Hockey team

[leeroggy]

pegula kickstarted Penn State correct?

Kickstarted is quite the understatement. He built the on campus arena fully funded and endowed the program. I think it was $190 million in total.

 

[SI90]

Kickstarted is quite the understatement. He built the on campus arena fully funded and endowed the program. I think it was $190 million in total.

yeah that’s awesome. I could see them very much becoming a big program that can complete. They have the name recognition already and that helps. All it takes is one huge recruit for a domino effect.

 

[leeroggy]

yeah that’s awesome. I could see them very much becoming a big program that can complete. They have the name recognition already and that helps. All it takes is one huge recruit for a domino effect.

Utah's lacrosse team was funded by Jet Blue founder David Neeleman. His son Scott is on the roster. Neeleman's ex-wife is the sister of Utah basketball legend Danny Vranes, if you remember that name.

 

[Chardo]

I see a lot of shots hitting the cw post.

 

[WagnerGrad96]

When I read that LIU was starting D1 Ice Hockey, I just got annoyed that my alma Mater - Wagner College - lags behind. They have had a club team for years - often a very good club team. LIU is in the same conference as Wagner yet Wagner again remains a minor league athletic program run by an AD two decades past his prime.

 

[SI90]

I see a lot of shots hitting the cw post.

 

[xECK29x]

Looks like we have our first commit!

Jordan Di Cicco at eliteprospects.com

 

[DarkHorse2]

Looks like we have our first commit!

Jordan Di Cicco at eliteprospects.com

I don't have a good handle on the AJHL. It's A-level junior, but players go on to play in the NCAAs. Cale Makar played for the same team and Cicco, but Cicco isn't quite the same level of prospect, ranking 13th on his team in scoring and he's just 5'9".

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I don't have a good handle on the AJHL. It's A-level junior, but players go on to play in the NCAAs. Cale Makar played for the same team and Cicco, but Cicco isn't quite the same level of prospect, ranking 13th on his team in scoring and he's just 5'9".

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and back your claim. I don't think he's quite the same level of prospect.

Which is odd, because the AJHL really only produces players the quality of a Cale Makar.

We'll just have to scratch this one up as an anomaly.

On a serious note, the league is one that produces a number of college hockey players. I think, over time, what will be really interesting to see is just how many kids from Long Island and perhaps lower Connecticut LIU can start recruiting. It would certainly help with creating a fan base of sorts at the beginning.

 

[DarkHorse2]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and back your claim. I don't think he's quite the same level of prospect.

Which is odd, because the AJHL really only produces players the quality of a Cale Makar.

We'll just have to scratch this one up as an anomaly.

On a serious note, the league is one that produces a number of college hockey players. I think, over time, what will be really interesting to see is just how many kids from Long Island and perhaps lower Connecticut LIU can start recruiting. It would certainly help with creating a fan base of sorts at the beginning.

Sarcasm doesn't translate well online.

I wonder if they were waiting to see if Alabama Huntsville was able to save their program (which they were.) Now they've got to try to build a roster from non-committed lower-tier players.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Sarcasm doesn't translate well online.

I wonder if they were waiting to see if Alabama Huntsville was able to save their program (which they were.) Now they've got to try to build a roster from non-committed lower-tier players.

Definitely going to be an uphill battle for a good long while, although the coach is surely very familiar with which circuits he'll seek to bring players in from to get things started.

I'm wondering if bringing in a bunch of Canadian kids who haven't already long since been gobbled up by other programs is going to be the route to go?

Ironically, the school's other sports programs have been very open to bringing in foreigners. Almost got to think LIU might have a bigger shot at a few hits going that route.

Ultimately though, one would hope that some Long Island and Tri-State area kids are added to the team, if for nothing else than to create some regional sympathy and connections.

 

[xECK29x]

Team is really filling out now, we also have a Japanese player! Madoka Suzuki at eliteprospects.com

 

[leeroggy]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and back your claim. I don't think he's quite the same level of prospect.

Which is odd, because the AJHL really only produces players the quality of a Cale Makar.

We'll just have to scratch this one up as an anomaly.

On a serious note, the league is one that produces a number of college hockey players. I think, over time, what will be really interesting to see is just how many kids from Long Island and perhaps lower Connecticut LIU can start recruiting. It would certainly help with creating a fan base of sorts at the beginning.

Chapin, the problem with recruting geographically for a D1 program is you are at the mercy of that area's talent fluctuations. I saw in D1 lacrosse with some of the newer programs an attempt to do that and the results were not good. In both sports there is almost no name recognition of recruits, unlike football and basketball that have much bigger cottage industries around the recruiting scene. Better off with BPA recruiting. Either way there will be few top recruits for LIU Hockey for at least a few years. In a relatively small sport (I'm guessing D1 Hockey and D1 Lacrosse are about the same in number of programs but in actuality D1 Hockey is LESS teams) you can't afford to go local and try to compete.

Hofstra, which you would think would be mostly NY lacrosse players, only had 13 of 45 players on the 2020 roster from NY. And they are pretty much a borderline Top 20 program at this point. Another point is that a lot of top players in any D1 sport want to get away from home for their college experience. It's just not a formula for success. I assume that in hockey, like lacrosse, there are more qualified D1 players available to recruit than available slots to get recruited to.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Chapin, the problem with recruting geographically for a D1 program is you are at the mercy of that area's talent fluctuations. I saw in D1 lacrosse with some of the newer programs an attempt to do that and the results were not good. In both sports there is almost no name recognition of recruits, unlike football and basketball that have much bigger cottage industries around the recruiting scene. Better off with BPA recruiting. Either way there will be few top recruits for LIU Hockey for at least a few years. In a relatively small sport (I'm guessing D1 Hockey and D1 Lacrosse are about the same in number of programs but in actuality D1 Hockey is LESS teams) you can't afford to go local and try to compete.

Hofstra, which you would think would be mostly NY lacrosse players, only had 13 of 45 players on the 2020 roster from NY. And they are pretty much a borderline Top 20 program at this point. Another point is that a lot of top players in any D1 sport want to get away from home for their college experience. It's just not a formula for success. I assume that in hockey, like lacrosse, there are more qualified D1 players available to recruit than available slots to get recruited to.

Good points. Definitely hear you, although I wouldn't necessarily agree with that final point. I think college hockey is actually a bit watered down nowadays, as so many of the players who'd be top notch ultimately end up going the junior or pro route before the college. In addition, the best players end up out of college after a season or two anyways.

My idea about some of the local kids is more about the initial stages for this program.

Fact is, the team is going to be "shite" for several years and is starting sooo late that this first generation is likely going to get slaughtered. There are just too many programs out there who were on the map and have gobbled up the top talent for each class for basically the next 3-5 years. At least on paper.

Sure, LIU will get the odd "gem" here and there, even at the beginning, but for now, it's shopping in what is basically like the 35th wave of players across North America who are interested and capable of going the college route.

It'll be very interesting to see. I can imagine that Quinnipiac is going to be the model the school will look to follow in establishing competitiveness at this level.

With this in mind, knowing you you have this fate right now, it'd perhaps be wise to rake in some local guys to make this "cottage industry" plus one of your few selling points while kicking things off.

 

[leeroggy]

Good points. Definitely hear you, although I wouldn't necessarily agree with that final point. I think college hockey is actually a bit watered down nowadays, as so many of the players who'd be top notch ultimately end up going the junior or pro route before the college. In addition, the best players end up out of college after a season or two anyways.

My idea about some of the local kids is more about the initial stages for this program.

Fact is, the team is going to be "shite" for several years and is starting sooo late that this first generation is likely going to get slaughtered. There are just too many programs out there who were on the map and have gobbled up the top talent for each class for basically the next 3-5 years. At least on paper.

Sure, LIU will get the odd "gem" here and there, even at the beginning, but for now, it's shopping in what is basically like the 35th wave of players across North America who are interested and capable of going the college route.

It'll be very interesting to see. I can imagine that Quinnipiac is going to be the model the school will look to follow in establishing competitiveness at this level.

With this in mind, knowing you you have this fate right now, it'd perhaps be wise to rake in some local guys to make this "cottage industry" plus one of your few selling points while kicking things off.

Does D1 hockey not have the same early recruiting rules lacrosse put in a few years ago? We went from 8th graders committing to not being able to directly recruit until September 1 of their junior year (I think it was eased back a few months for this year but with the pandemic the Dark Period was extended to at least July 31st for this year).

 

[leeroggy]

I should also mention that in lacrosse we don't have to compete with an established Canadian Junior system either. The amount of D1 talent at D2 schools (D2 is where the growth of programs is) is rapidly growing and a lot of D1 recruits transfer to D2 after sitting the bench for the first year or two. With Furman giving up the sport that's another 40 D1 players on the market.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Does D1 hockey not have the same early recruiting rules lacrosse put in a few years ago? We went from 8th graders committing to not being able to directly recruit until September 1 of their junior year (I think it was eased back a few months for this year but with the pandemic the Dark Period was extended to at least July 31st for this year).

Not sure about this.

There was a The Hockey News article somewhere in the past 7 or 8 issues basically protesting the practice of scouting and recruiting kids when they're in middle school.

I do know that Tim Stutzle, who obviously will not be going to college, had initially committed to UNH as a 15-year old, so maybe that's the limit nowadays?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I should also mention that in lacrosse we don't have to compete with an established Canadian Junior system either. The amount of D1 talent at D2 schools (D2 is where the growth of programs is) is rapidly growing and a lot of D1 recruits transfer to D2 after sitting the bench for the first year or two. With Furman giving up the sport that's another 40 D1 players on the market.

In addition to the note about Canadian juniors, the USHL has developed into the premiere US league for developing future college players. It still is. BUT time has shown that a lot of kids who spend 2-3 years in that league decide to take a different path than the college one they initially entered the league on path for.

Alabama-Huntsville almost became college hockey's Furman.

 

[leeroggy]

In addition to the note about Canadian juniors, the USHL has developed into the premiere US league for developing future college players. It still is. BUT time has shown that a lot of kids who spend 2-3 years in that league decide to take a different path than the college one they initially entered the league on path for.

Alabama-Huntsville almost became college hockey's Furman.

But doesn't the USHL end at 18? Canadian Junior can have an overage 20-year old. A little more competition for the normal colleg age group.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

But doesn't the USHL end at 18? Canadian Junior can have an overage 20-year old. A little more competition for the normal colleg age group.

Nah, it's for ages 16-21.

I think 21-year olds can also play in the CHL, should they not be 21 when the season begins or something like that.