LIU adding D-1 Men's Hockey Program

[CrazyEddie20]

I hope there has been at least some sort of internal planning and behind the scenes work for this that we don't know of.

If there had been, it would've addressed all those things you listed and LIU would've come to the reasonable conclusion that they should wait.

But here we are.

 

[mk80]

If there had been, it would've addressed all those things you listed and LIU would've come to the reasonable conclusion that they should wait.

But here we are.

That's very true. I'm waiting to make the final judgement on their planning when they announce a coach to see if they blow us all away with a spectacular hire, or we get a peak at some behind the scenes work this whole time then. But as it stands now I think this whole situation comes around to our current conclusions of them going all in without making sure they have the right cards in their hand first.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

That's very true. I'm waiting to make the final judgement on their planning when they announce a coach to see if they blow us all away with a spectacular hire, or we get a peak at some behind the scenes work this whole time then. But as it stands now I think this whole situation comes around to our current conclusions of them going all in without making sure they have the right cards in their hand first.

They can't possibly hire a coach that would "blow us away" when the entire coaching budget is $150K and nearly every head coach in Division I is making $100K or more.

Frank Anzalone would do it, though.

 

[JMCx4]

... Frank Anzalone would do it, though.

He's probably already packed & waiting for the call.

 

[Corso]

They can't possibly hire a coach that would "blow us away" when the entire coaching budget is $150K and nearly every head coach in Division I is making $100K or more.

Frank Anzalone would do it, though.

Remember hearing a lot about the original Brooklyn bad boy "crazy eyes" Anzalone. A super intense competitor who just couldn't keep his mouth shut. He's got a be pushing 70 now no?

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Remember hearing a lot about the original Brooklyn bad boy "crazy eyes" Anzalone. A super intense competitor who just couldn't keep his mouth shut. He's got a be pushing 70 now no?

Add a persecution complex and you've got basically the total picture.

 

[mk80]

 

[S E P H]

If I were them, I would go after Scott Owens if he's interested. I am a CC fan and he pretty much made our programme relevant during his tenure there. He can do wonders with a smaller programme which LIU is obviously looking to be. He decided to resign from his own volition, which is still one of the saddest days of being a Tigres fan. The club has never been the same.

 

[JMCx4]

The stipulation that the head coach provide the protective masks & surgical gloves for every team member and hockey staff position for the whole season probably didn't help the AD's hiring pitch, either.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

If I were them, I would go after Scott Owens if he's interested. I am a CC fan and he pretty much made our programme relevant during his tenure there. He can do wonders with a smaller programme which LIU is obviously looking to be. He decided to resign from his own volition, which is still one of the saddest days of being a Tigres fan. The club has never been the same.

The asking price for Scott Owens is beyond LIU's total coaching budget.

 

[mk80]

If I were them, I would go after Scott Owens if he's interested. I am a CC fan and he pretty much made our programme relevant during his tenure there. He can do wonders with a smaller programme which LIU is obviously looking to be. He decided to resign from his own volition, which is still one of the saddest days of being a Tigres fan. The club has never been the same.

The asking price for Scott Owens is beyond LIU's total coaching budget.

My guess is their budget will limit them to a few current D3 or high level junior guys who want to use it as a starting point.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

My guess is their budget will limit them to a few current D3 or high level junior guys who want to use it as a starting point.

Depends what you mean by "high-level juniors." Anyone from Major Junior or the USHL will command six figures, and anyone near the top of Division III will be $75K-plus.

 

[mk80]

Depends what you mean by "high-level juniors." Anyone from Major Junior or the USHL will command six figures, and anyone near the top of Division III will be $75K-plus.

I think more like Tier II, or Junior A, I wouldn't rule out a USHL assistant. Really their best shot is some young gun willing to take a hit on short term salary but wanting to use it as a jumping off point who will come in work it for 1-3 years to build the program boost their career and put themselves in a position to move onto another opening somewhere else.

 

[kij]

My guess is their budget will limit them to a few current D3 or high level junior guys who want to use it as a starting point.

What about some ACHA coaches? Greg Powers down at ASU made the jump (albeit at the same school) but I have confidence that there are some coaches in the league that could cut it. Although my guess is that some such as Zombo at Lindenwood and Regier at Minot State are also probably out of the price range.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

What about some ACHA coaches? Greg Powers down at ASU made the jump (albeit at the same school) but I have confidence that there are some coaches in the league that could cut it. Although my guess is that some such as Zombo at Lindenwood and Regier at Minot State are also probably out of the price range.

Powers was able to be successful after he "made the jump" because of ASU's recruiting power, which as a startup program was drawn solely from the University's athletic cache.

Zombo has no coaching experience in real college hockey and not much success coaching in the NAHL, which is arguably a higher level of play. Based on Regier's records and awards, he'd have moved on from coaching club pucks in the middle of nowhere if he had that desire.

They'd go for a lower price to move up to coach real college hockey, though the cost of living on Long Island is much higher than Metro St. Louis and astronomical compared to Minot.

 

[mk80]

What about some ACHA coaches? Greg Powers down at ASU made the jump (albeit at the same school) but I have confidence that there are some coaches in the league that could cut it. Although my guess is that some such as Zombo at Lindenwood and Regier at Minot State are also probably out of the price range.

Greg Powers is a more of exception than a blueprint. No doubt there are some very good ACHA programs and coaches that could coach at that level, but more or less the route goes ACHA -> to D3 -> to D1. Other than Powers there's not a coach I can think of off the top of my head that has gone ACHA D1 straight to NCAA D1.

As for Zombo, he has been the bench the boss for some great LU teams, this season's had potential for another National Championship too in my biased opinion. He is definitely a top coach for the ACHA, but I'll put it this way, if/when Lindenwood would go NCAA D1 I wouldn't be surprised if he turned down being the head coach.

Powers was able to be successful after he "made the jump" because of ASU's recruiting power, which as a startup program was drawn solely from the University's athletic cache.

Zombo has no coaching experience in real college hockey and not much success coaching in the NAHL, which is arguably a higher level of play. Based on Regier's records and awards, he'd have moved on from coaching club pucks in the middle of nowhere if he had that desire.

They'd go for a lower price to move up to coach real college hockey, though the cost of living on Long Island is much higher than Metro St. Louis and astronomical compared to Minot.

Despite it's "club" status, ACHA D1 level is a very competitive level of play and should not be dismissed. Most players at that level are on par with D3 players, and there are even players who could play at a D1 level simply because there are more players than NCAA teams for them to play on. Many ACHA D1 programs despite being "non-varsity" sports are funded in some capacity by their schools, and I've seen plenty play and win against NCAA D3 teams in exhibition games. It should not be dismissed as fake college hockey even though it is not NCAA.

 

[kij]

Greg Powers is a more of exception than a blueprint. No doubt there are some very good ACHA programs and coaches that could coach at that level, but more or less the route goes ACHA -> to D3 -> to D1. Other than Powers there's not a coach I can think of off the top of my head that has gone ACHA D1 straight to NCAA D1.

As for Zombo, he has been the bench the boss for some great LU teams, this season's had potential for another National Championship too in my biased opinion. He is definitely a top coach for the ACHA, but I'll put it this way, if/when Lindenwood would go NCAA D1 I wouldn't be surprised if he turned down being the head coach.



Despite it's "club" status, ACHA D1 level is a very competitive level of play and should not be dismissed. Most players at that level are on par with D3 players, and there are even players who could play at a D1 level simply because there are more players than NCAA teams for them to play on. Many ACHA D1 programs despite being "non-varsity" sports are funded in some capacity by their schools, and I've seen plenty play and win against NCAA D3 teams in exhibition games. It should not be dismissed as fake college hockey even though it is not NCAA.

I would say the coaching route usually goes through juniors, pros, or assistant coaching prior to D1 head coaching as well. Same as a lack of roster spots for players, there is also a lack of coaching spots at the highest levels for the number of coaches who could do it. In addition, those were just 2 coaches I pulled off the top of my head, being that they run perennial powerhouses, Stonybrook being another one.

Many players actually turn down NCAA D3 offers to go ACHA due to a variety of factors (tuition costs, grades, desirable school/location, degree programs offered, familiarity with the coach, expanded roles, eligibility, etc). I would know, I was one of them a few years back.

Side note, MK, what is your affiliation with LU? Fan, player, parent, staff?

 

[BOS358]

Many players actually turn down NCAA D3 offers to go ACHA due to a variety of factors (tuition costs, grades, desirable school/location, degree programs offered, familiarity with the coach, expanded roles, eligibility, etc). I would know, I was one of them a few years back.

That is very true. If your only option is D3, you're probably not being scouted by an NHL team, so you might as well pick the best fit academically. Keith Aucoin is the obvious exception here.

For coaching, yes there could be some great coaches in the ACHA, but like their NCAA D3 counterparts, they rarely move up. The only one I could think of is Norm Bazin (and yes, he's done a pretty decent job at Lowell.)

Ah, here's an idea! Jeff Cox thinks he knows everything about hockey...maybe hand him the reins! He has all the qualifications that you could hope for with LIU's asking salary: two arms, two legs, and a head.

 

[JMCx4]

... Side note, MK, what is your affiliation with LU? Fan, player, parent, staff?

If @mk80 is the parent of a college-aged player, I want the name & number of his plastic surgeon.

 

[mk80]

I would say the coaching route usually goes through juniors, pros, or assistant coaching prior to D1 head coaching as well. Same as a lack of roster spots for players, there is also a lack of coaching spots at the highest levels for the number of coaches who could do it. In addition, those were just 2 coaches I pulled off the top of my head, being that they run perennial powerhouses, Stonybrook being another one.

Many players actually turn down NCAA D3 offers to go ACHA due to a variety of factors (tuition costs, grades, desirable school/location, degree programs offered, familiarity with the coach, expanded roles, eligibility, etc). I would know, I was one of them a few years back.

Side note, MK, what is your affiliation with LU? Fan, player, parent, staff?

Well yes that's correct as well for juniors and pro feeding into college coaching ranks as well, I had forgot to include that. I worked for the Student Life Sports office which oversees the men's hockey team at LU while I was a student there (graduated in 2017). Currently I do the play-by-play for the men's and women's hockey broadcasts and any other events they ask me to cover.

If @mk80 is the parent of a college-aged player, I want the name & number of his plastic surgeon.

I owe a lot to good genes!

 

[CrazyEddie20]

That is very true. If your only option is D3, you're probably not being scouted by an NHL team, so you might as well pick the best fit academically. Keith Aucoin is the obvious exception here.

Keith Aucoin wasn't on the NHL's radar until he had played four years of college hockey and started tearing up the UHL as a first-year pro.

If you aren't going to a NESCAC school or one of several great academic schools in Minnesota or Wisconsin, you might as well play club. But the top Club teams are not, on the whole, on par with the top Division III teams, either on the ice or in terms of facilities and administrative support. Most of them don't even come close.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

If you aren't going to a NESCAC school or one of several great academic schools in Minnesota or Wisconsin, you might as well play club. But the top Club teams are not, on the whole, on par with the top Division III teams, either on the ice or in terms of facilities and administrative support. Most of them don't even come close.

Of course the top club teams are no better than the top NCAA Division III teams. The top 10 or so NCAA Division III teams are interchangeable with the bottom 10 or so NCAA Division I teams. Adrian DIII regularly beats the starting lineups of the DI teams they scrimmage, with Princeton being the most recent of the few.

But the top 10 or so club teams are easily on par with rest of the NCAA Division III, in terms of rosters, facilities and coaching staff. Adrian, Lindenwood, Ohio, Liberty, Minot State and Iowa State have entire rosters of alumni from Canadian Junior A, NAHL and several have NCAA DI transfers/de-commits (usually because of poor grades). Those teams have full-time coaches and no playing fees. Except for Iowa State, they all easily have facilities that are level or better than all NCAA DIII schools (besides Utica, UWSP and a few SUNYAC schools).

 

[kij]

If anybody has access to the hockey think tank podcast, we might get some answers out of this tomorrow. Anybody?

 

[Oak]

I don't know what parent would want to send their kid to LIU if they don't have their own rink. Part of the mystique of playing D1 college hockey is the whole college experience itself. That includes having a nice rink and locker room on campus, and the student body comes to watch you play.

Playing in Syosset is a joke, and although Northwell health is an awesome rink to play at, it is still small in comparison to real D1 rinks. Also sitting in LIE traffic to go to practice or games from campus will get tiresome over the course of the season.

I just dont understand why they are rushing headfirst into this. Seems like making a club team or d3 team first would be the move while they build their coaching staff and recruit players. Also gives them time to find funding for a nice rink to be built on campus.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

I don't know what parent would want to send their kid to LIU if they don't have their own rink. Part of the mystique of playing D1 college hockey is the whole college experience itself. That includes having a nice rink and locker room on campus, and the student body comes to watch you play.

Playing in Syosset is a joke, and although Northwell health is an awesome rink to play at, it is still small in comparison to real D1 rinks. Also sitting in LIE traffic to go to practice or games from campus will get tiresome over the course of the season.

I just dont understand why they are rushing headfirst into this. Seems like making a club team or d3 team first would be the move while they build their coaching staff and recruit players. Also gives them time to find funding for a nice rink to be built on campus.

Plenty of colleges don't have their own rink or have an interest of owning one. I can think of AUH, AIC, Canisius, RMU, UConn off the top of my head that meet those two conditions.

They are rushing because they have rushed all their sports. Women's hockey was added last year with late notice as well. Making a club team is difficult because it is a huge jump between even the highest level club and NCAA DI. It would be the same as starting a brand new team. They can't have a DIII team as a DI program. They likely don't have the funding for a nice rink to be on campus. If they did, they would have built it with the announcement of the girls program.