Line Combos: Lineup if Playoffs Start in August

FraumBallard

Registered User
Dec 9, 2018
980
407
What would your ideal lineup look like? I'd go:

Hyman - - Matthews - -Marner
Nylander - Tavares - Micheyev
Engvall - - -Kerfoot - - Kapanen
Clifford - - - Gauthier - - Spezza
Malgin

Rielly - Dermott
Muzzin - - - Holl
Sandin - Barrie
Ceci

Andersen
Campbell
Worst third line Ever.
Play them 4 minutes or so as a fourth line.
Make Malgin dissapeare.
Barrie too.
Love Mik in top 6.
 

SeaOfBlue

The Passion That Unites Us All
Aug 1, 2013
35,591
16,773
Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Mikheyev-Tavares-Marner
Engvall/Robertson-Kerfoot-Kapanen
Clifford-Gauthier-Spezza

If Robertson play, then Engvall plays on the 4th line over Spezza or Gauthier.

Rielly-Barrie
Muzzin-Holl
Dermott-Ceci

Andersen
Campbell
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
3rd lines and how they played this year. Minimum 20 minutes together.

Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Engvall: 47:06, 34.6ozs%, 56.9cf%, 60.8xgf%, 80.8gf%
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Kapanen: 53:31, 47.1ozs%, 55.8cf%, 59.9xgf%, 52.5gf%
Engvall-Kerfoot-Kapanen: 76:00, 48.2ozs%, 59.4cf%, 57.5xgf%, 49.6gf%
Engvall-Spezza-Kapanen: 69:13, 47.6ozs%, 54.3cf%, 54.9xgf%, 70.0gf%
Kerfoot-Spezza-Kapanen: 30:42, 44.5ozs%, 55.9cf%, 65.7xgf%, 52.4gf%

Honestly you really can't go wrong with any of those combos. They've all been very effective 3rd lines.
 

Gabriel426

Registered User
Jun 30, 2015
16,522
10,128
Do we have a forth line?
Like is there really a huge diff between our 3rd and 4th line?
PP and PK aside as well as OT aside.
The top two lines will play 20 mins each.
Which leaves 20mins for the 3rd and 4th line.
Looking at our bottom 6
Engvall, Clifford, Kerfoot, Kap, Spezza, Goat, Malgin and Robertson.
Unless there is an injury crisis of Keefe just wanted to try something new and have Goat, Malgin and Robertson on the same line.
The difference between any combination of the mentioned players are very slim.
Having Engvall-Spezza-Kap is a very solid line with break out speed and good at faceoff, plus they should be good at breaking up the cycle.
Clifford-Kerfoot-Malgin will provide a lot of sparks and having Clifford with Robertson might allow Malgin more room.
Robertson can also play on this line.
 

kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
15,202
21,507
3rd lines and how they played this year. Minimum 20 minutes together.

Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Engvall: 47:06, 34.6ozs%, 56.9cf%, 60.8xgf%, 80.8gf%
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Kapanen: 53:31, 47.1ozs%, 55.8cf%, 59.9xgf%, 52.5gf%
Engvall-Kerfoot-Kapanen: 76:00, 48.2ozs%, 59.4cf%, 57.5xgf%, 49.6gf%
Engvall-Spezza-Kapanen: 69:13, 47.6ozs%, 54.3cf%, 54.9xgf%, 70.0gf%
Kerfoot-Spezza-Kapanen: 30:42, 44.5ozs%, 55.9cf%, 65.7xgf%, 52.4gf%

Honestly you really can't go wrong with any of those combos. They've all been very effective 3rd lines.
Wait. Kinda thought that any third line without Kadri - and with Kerfoot - was horrific?

Huh.
 

ottomaddox

Registered User
Oct 31, 2017
10,592
4,600
Toronto
Might is right.
Toughness first.
Keefe thinks outside the box and mixes things up.

Hyman Tavares Mikheyev
Clifford Matthews Marner
Nylander Spezza Kapanen
Kerfoot Gauthier Engvall

Muzzin Holl
Rielly Ceci
Dermott Barrie

GO LEAFS GO!
 

Zybalto

Registered User
Dec 28, 2012
9,491
8,768
the numbers i'm looking at say something a bit different than that.

unfortunately i'm limited to using naturalstatrick right now so there's no zone adjustment or qoc, but under Keefe here's what I got (and i'll add in the qoc from memory):

Muzzin-Holl: 456:58, 35.6ozs%, 55.0cf%, 58.4xgf% --> steadily moved up from 2nd pair usage to heavy top pair competition

Obviously this is tremendous, especially when you look at that zone deployment. A zone adjustment would have that pair at 60% or higher, even against top competition.

Rielly-Ceci: 145:31, 47.4ozs%, 50.1cf%, 51.7xgf% ---> elite top pair quality of competition
Rielly-Barrie: 278:31, 61.1ozs%, 53.3cf%, 53.7xgf% ->strong 2nd pair calibre competition

I think I would argue that the Rielly-Ceci pair's numbers are actually more impressive when you factor in zone deployment and quality of competition. but it's close.

Dermott-Barrie: 259:19, 60.9ozs%, 52.5cf%, 52.7xgf% --> ? I believe this was more than just 3rd pair duty - closer to 2nd pair duty iirc.
Dermott-Ceci: 184:10, 59.6ozs%, 52.4cf%, 58.6xgf% ----> ? i think this was mostly 3rd pair duty


Muzzin-Holl doing so well really helps Keefe out and lets him play around with Rielly's partner depending on situation. I think I may agree with him that Rielly-Ceci is the better bet on a consistent basis - less vulnerable to line matching.

Yea, was going off bad memory on the Rielly/Barrie xGF% numbers which I thought were much higher although their GF% numbers are around that.

Looking at all the pairings that have played a decent amount of minutes under Keefe, Barrie certainly does look like the weak link on the D. Under-performing offensive specialist.

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on Rasmus Sandin. Folks were raving about him and then he was seen as struggling and some dont have him even on their playoff D rosters.

Looking at the numbers, it all seems to coincide with Ceci going down with an injury:

Under Keefe:

Sandin-Ceci: 74:46, 40.63ozs%, 55.8cf%, 56.9xgf% ---> I'd love to see what their QoC was during this time because those numbers are just incredible. Zone starts close to Muzzin/Holl.

After Ceci went down, here are Sandins numbers with his new regular partner Barrie:

Sandin-Barrie: 88:19, 73.21ozs%, 52.7cf%, 45.4xgf% ---> What the hell happened? Not sure you can get much more sheltered when it comes to zone starts.

May just come down to chemistry and Sandin needing that solid defensive player back there. I do wonder if Ceci doesnt go down, are we talking about Sandin starting in the playoffs? For all the bizarre cheering when Ceci got hurt, I know Sandin wasnt happy about it.

Should we be giving this kid a hard look at a larger role in the playoff?
 
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ottomaddox

Registered User
Oct 31, 2017
10,592
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Toronto
Yea, was going off bad memory on the Rielly/Barrie xGF% numbers which I thought were much higher although their GF% numbers are around that.

Looking at all the pairings that have played a decent amount of minutes under Keefe, Barrie certainly does look like the weak link on the D. Under-performing offensive specialist.

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on Rasmus Sandin. Folks were raving about him and then he was seen as struggling and some dont have him even on their playoff D rosters.

Looking at the numbers, it all seems to coincide with Ceci going down with an injury:

Under Keefe:

Sandin-Ceci: 74:46, 40.63ozs%, 55.8cf%, 56.9xgf% ---> I'd love to see what their QoC was during this time because those numbers are just incredible. Zone starts close to Muzzin/Holl.

After Ceci went down, here are Sandins numbers with his new regular partner Barrie:

Sandin-Barrie: 88:19, 73.21ozs%, 52.7cf%, 45.4xgf% ---> What the hell happened? Not sure you can get much more sheltered when it comes to zone starts.

May just come down to chemistry and Sandin needing that solid defensive player back there. I do wonder if Ceci doesnt go down, are we talking about Sandin starting in the playoffs? For all the bizarre cheering when Ceci got hurt, I know Sandin wasnt happy about it.

Should we be giving this kid a hard look at a larger role in the playoff?

It's such a good question. It always comes down to the numbers game and who shoots L/R. If everyone is healthy: Rielly, Muzzin, Ceci, Barrie, Dermott and Holl all come before Sandin. Sandin is supposed to be the future of our blue-line. We should see him even in a playoff game. I don't see why not. If this series with CBJ is shortened (back to back games, etc.) we might see him. Many leaf fans are dying to see Robertson start in a playoff game. I don't see why Sandin couldn't play.
 

noosik

Registered User
Jun 14, 2020
2
7
Hyman Matthews Marner
Robertson Tavares Nylander
Mikheyev Kerfoot Kapanen
Clifford Engvall Spezza
Goat

Muzzin Holl
Rielly Dermott
Sandin Barrie
Ceci

Okay, this post made me sign up & actually participate, been a bystander for a couple yrs. Happy to be here, great site!
This is my first post & its only on the anticipation & belief that Robertson has the talent to crack the roster! Hey, I'm a leaf fan for 50+ yrs, forever faithful & optimistic...only sport team I can honestly say I am a true fan of...probably wouldn't have a TV otherwise lol!! I'd love to see this lineup given a good look...

Robertson Mathews Nylander
Hyman Tavares Marner
Mikheyev Kerfoot Kapanen
Clifford Engvall Spezza

Defense I think you've got set up pretty good there
 

noosik

Registered User
Jun 14, 2020
2
7
Would not surprise me if Sandin makes the roster, he is going to be next years version of himself in terms of development, so who knows.

It’s going to be FIVE months since they’ve last played.

Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Robertson, Sandin...could be a huge change

I concur...league today opens up to youth more than ever before...if they can play, and Sandin & Robertson can..let em' go
 

markh100

Registered User
Aug 11, 2005
1,228
105
Toronto
This is more what I'd like to see, rather than what I'd expect to see. I believe I remember hearing that 30 man rosters would be available, which seems a bit ludicrous, but I listed 30 here. Maybe call up Kaskisuo instead of Aberg or Gravel as your 30th, but hope it doesn't come to that.

Hyman Matthews Marner
Mikyeyev Tavares Nylander
N. Robertson Kerfoot Kapanen
Clifford Spezza Engvall

Spares: Malgin, Gauthier, Brooks, Johnsson*, Aberg

*If available, I'd slide him into the 3rd line, and platoon Nick Robertson and Clifford on the 4th line

Rielly Barrie
Muzzin Holl
Sandin Dermott

Spares: Rosen, Ceci, Liljigren, Marincin, Gravel

Andersen / Campbell
 

kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
15,202
21,507
If Sandin wasn't ready for NHL mid-season hockey.....how on earth is he suddenly going to be ready for playoff hockey? Ceci is better than Sandin right now, and it isn't particularly close. Sandin was getting caved in on bottom pairing duties.

Love the kid, but no....just no.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
49,556
59,149
If Sandin wasn't ready for NHL mid-season hockey.....how on earth is he suddenly going to be ready for playoff hockey? Ceci is better than Sandin right now, and it isn't particularly close. Sandin was getting caved in on bottom pairing duties.

Love the kid, but no....just no.
Well Sandin probably was ready for regular season hockey, and also by the time the league starts up again it'll be like 5 months since these guys have played. That's a lot of time for him to build up more strength and develop and he easily may have taken another step
 

kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
15,202
21,507
Well Sandin probably was ready for regular season hockey, and also by the time the league starts up again it'll be like 5 months since these guys have played. That's a lot of time for him to build up more strength and develop and he easily may have taken another step
Experience matters here, Ceci has been to the finals in a top-4 role. It's going to be his job to lose. IMO Sandin won't play barring injuries.
 

stickty111

Registered User
Jan 23, 2017
26,557
32,810
Experience matters here, Ceci has been to the finals in a top-4 role. It's going to be his job to lose. IMO Sandin won't play barring injuries.
Sandin gives you more offense and puck moving ability, but Ceci gives you much better defensive play. I think Ceci's defense is more valuable then Sandin's offense though. Also I don't see Keefe scratching Ceci for Sandin.
 
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meefer

Registered User
Jun 9, 2015
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Bangkok
Okay, this post made me sign up & actually participate, been a bystander for a couple yrs. Happy to be here, great site!
This is my first post & its only on the anticipation & belief that Robertson has the talent to crack the roster! Hey, I'm a leaf fan for 50+ yrs, forever faithful & optimistic...only sport team I can honestly say I am a true fan of...probably wouldn't have a TV otherwise lol!! I'd love to see this lineup given a good look...

Robertson Mathews Nylander
Hyman Tavares Marner
Mikheyev Kerfoot Kapanen
Clifford Engvall Spezza

Defense I think you've got set up pretty good there

May the gods help ya, mate, if you're using one of my posts as motivation :laugh:. Please tell me I don't have to live up to that lofty standard, I'll wilt under the pressure.

You and me both, but if you've managed 'faithful and optimistic' throughout the years, you're a better man than me. But, today I'll ride your coattails of of optimism, if allowed. Welcome aboard :)
 

kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
15,202
21,507
Sandin gives you more offense and puck moving ability, but Ceci gives you much better defensive play. I think Ceci's defense is more valuable then Sandin's offense though. Also I don't see Keefe scratching Ceci for Sandin.
I can't see him being scratched either. I do think that Ceci is underrated around here a little. The D looked quite a bit better when he returned from his injury. Sandin is definitely the better puck mover, but usually there is just a good first pass needed as there is less time and space in the playoffs. Ceci is capable of doing that.
 
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meefer

Registered User
Jun 9, 2015
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Bangkok
Experience matters here, Ceci has been to the finals in a top-4 role. It's going to be his job to lose. IMO Sandin won't play barring injuries.

Sandin gives you more offense and puck moving ability, but Ceci gives you much better defensive play. I think Ceci's defense is more valuable then Sandin's offense though. Also I don't see Keefe scratching Ceci for Sandin.

Both valid points.
However, my preference is the puck movement that Sandin and Dermott offer over Ceci. Ceci would be a stronger option in the Dzone, but his inability to consistently move the puck to Rielly denies us one of our stronger tools, Rielly's ability to skate the puck up the ice. My hope is that Dermott proves better than Ceci in this regard, while not being too much less a player defensively. If that is accepted by the coaches, then where does Ceci slot on the 3rd pair, or does he? Do you run a (LD/RD) combo of Ceci/Barrie, Barrie/Ceci or introduce Sandin? I'd guess it will be determined by how CBJ attacks us. Are they going to pursue an aggressive forecheck, or try break us down with a trap style defense, do you dress 7D to counter - and yes I know the domino effect this would have - and if...I'll stop now, thank goodness I'm not the coach :help:
 

kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
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21,507
Both valid points.
However, my preference is the puck movement that Sandin and Dermott offer over Ceci. Ceci would be a stronger option in the Dzone, but his inability to consistently move the puck to Rielly denies us one of our stronger tools, Rielly's ability to skate the puck up the ice. My hope is that Dermott proves better than Ceci in this regard, while not being too much less a player defensively. If that is accepted by the coaches, then where does Ceci slot on the 3rd pair, or does he? Do you run a (LD/RD) combo of Ceci/Barrie, Barrie/Ceci or introduce Sandin? I'd guess it will be determined by how CBJ attacks us. Are they going to pursue an aggressive forecheck, or try break us down with a trap style defense, do you dress 7D to counter - and yes I know the domino effect this would have - and if...I'll stop now, thank goodness I'm not the coach :help:
We can't forget that Ceci is a big part of the PK - he averages about 2:52/gm shorthanded. IMO, he's not coming out of the lineup unless he is injured. Sandin can't replace that.
 
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meefer

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Jun 9, 2015
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We can't forget that Ceci is a big part of the PK - he averages about 2:52/gm shorthanded. IMO, he's not coming out of the lineup unless he is injured. Sandin can't replace that.

I'd considered that and forgot to include it in my earlier reply because my stubby fingers couldn't keep up with my rambling brain. Time to cut back on the coffee.
 
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