Line Combos: Lines this morning

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smirob

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Jun 2, 2014
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Everyone's reasoning for DD being justified as our top line centre is his 'Chemistry with max'. This 'Chemistry' was the same reason he was demoted earlier in the season.

Speaking of 'Chemistry' what about re-uniting the EGG line? This was broken up for no reason when they were one of our most dynamic lines last season.....

So don't use Chemistry as the lynch pin for Desharnais, this is favouritism without question.
 

Andy

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Jun 26, 2008
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Everyone's reasoning for DD being justified as our top line centre is his 'Chemistry with max'. This 'Chemistry' was the same reason he was demoted earlier in the season.

Speaking of 'Chemistry' what about re-uniting the EGG line? This was broken up for no reason when they were one of our most dynamic lines last season.....

So don't use Chemistry as the lynch pin for Desharnais, this is favouritism without question.
Pacioretty has shown to have chemistry no matter who he plays with. He's on pace for 38 goals despite having a revolving door of linemates all season long.

The chemistry between Pacioretty and DD doesn't exit. It's just Patches making everyone he plays with look better.
 

smirob

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MT is an awfull coach, one of the worst... but the idea to put Eller on the 2nd line is even more ludicrous... the guy can't even create offence, let alone produce.

It should be Plekanec/Galchenyuk/Eller in that order for our top 3 lines.
 

smirob

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Pacioretty has shown to have chemistry no matter who he plays with. He's on pace for 38 goals despite having a revolving door of linemates all season long.

The chemistry between Pacioretty and DD doesn't exit. It's just Patches making everyone he plays with look better.

Exactly.
 

Not The One

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Feb 28, 2002
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We can do all the line combos we want. It does not mask the fact that this team's forward group is too uni-dimensional and lacks skill. Players such as Gallagher and Weiss on your top lines is not a recipe for playoff success. Deharnais is also not a great #1 centre to have. Unless Bergevin can get us a couple of players who can score, we will not get past the likes of Tampa this year.

We like to rag upon Vanek, but he was a huge help in propelling our offense to another level and still provided the team with 10 points in the playoffs. On an off year in Minnesota he has 31 points, which would put him in our top-five, only three points away from Galchenyuk.

The only help that I can see is from outside the organization. Aside from Scherbak, I see few players who can reach elite status on offense.

This is the lineup I wish we could ice

Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Gallagher
Sekac-Plekanec-Parenteau
Prust-Eller-Thomas
Bournival-Deharnais-Weiss
Still an ugly lineup.

1st: Giving a key role to a 21 year-old without experience at center for the previous four or five years.
2nd: Simply deadful. Sekac has one point in his last 10 games and PAP is injured and was cold even before then. Poor Pleks.
3rd: No offense whatsoever, questionable defensively with Thomas.
4th: Could be fun to watch, but probably not effective.

Moving Galchenyk to center weakens the whole lineup, for questionnable gains. Move him to Pleks' wing, put DD in his spot and bring down PAP with Eller and every single line then looks stronger.
 

missthenet

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Feb 20, 2003
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Pacs-DD-Gally
Galchy-Pleks-Sekac
Prust-Eller-PAP

That's what I'd like to see. Didn't a variation of this work pretty well earlier in the year?

How about the lines and the system we used against Pittsburgh about 6 weeks ago when we beat them handily in their building 4-1? It' s like that was a statement gane by MT and since then the lines are all over the place.
 

417

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My question is since when has promotion and merit ever gone hand in hand for MT?

I agree here...MT does play favorites with some of HIS players. Which isn't uncommon for any coach in any sport. He has his reasons and unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you want to see it), he's been successful.

The solution to the 1st line RW will never be Dale Weise. Ever. The solution to the first line RW might be Sekac, you'll never know until you try him there. Sekac might not be producing now, but there was no reason not to give him that promotion the moment PAP went down a while back. That promotion should have never gone to Weise in the first place. You're looking at the promotion from now, the promotion should have occurred a while back.

Amazing revelation here...that's obvious isn't it?

As for Sekac, he's not producing now and he wasn't producing then either. I think you're infatuated with the idea of what Sekac can be, which is fine, but I don't necessarily have an issue with how MT has used him because I don't think he's really shown any consistency offensively, we've seen flashes. But again, 46 shots in 43 games? If you're just going to have a guy skate up and down right wing, might as well put Weise there, he offers more defensively and physically at this point.

Even at that, MT has spoken about giving a player the opportunity to get out of their slumps by putting them in positions to succeed. All I need to do is point back to DD to see how merit and promotion has not gone hand in hand. Why weren't you up in arms when DD was given that promotion he didn't deserve last season when he had 1 point in 19 games?

Who told you I wasn't? lol

Or earlier in the season when he went 48 games without a 5 on 5 goal but still had his position secure. Or when Andrighetto came in and put up 3 points in 3 games and got demoted to the 4th line for doing so. Why does merit and promotion mean so much now when applied to Sekac?

Again...how do you know this? My post history on this topic suggest otherwise, but i'd love to hear you enlighten me on what I was thinking at the time.

When a team struggles to score goals, there is no reason not to try a struggling rookie with clear top 6 talent over a career bottom 6 player with limited offensive talent who isn't even producing well in that top 6 role to begin with

Not sure I agree that Sekac has 'clear top 6 talent'. I've seen flashes this year, but I've also seen a lot of "Jan Bulis" in him too. What kind of player Sekac turns out to be is anyone's guess, nothing anyone has seen so far can determine that for sure either way right now.
It's asinine. Your justification of keeping Weise in the top 6 is ridiculous man, he isn't even producing well in that role and the team struggles to score goals. Slump or not, Sekac should be put there for the simple fact that he has more talent, even more so when the team can't score.

Hmm...I haven't justified keeping Weise in the top 6 at all, matter of fact, I've been saying since Day 1 this year that this team lacks a RW on the top line.

I just think that, right now, he's the best option. 2 weeks from now, maybe that answer is Sekac, I don't know. But today, it's either Weise or Gallagher

As for you not playing favorites, I would agree with you if you didn't continuously trash Plekanec for the better part of 4 years now

I've never trashed Plekanec, I just don't think he's as good as most Habs fans tend to think he is. He's a quality player though, i'm not a fool, I realize how valuable he is to the Habs, but IMO, he's not anymore suited to be the #1 center on this team than Desharnais is.

Neither player is ideal to play that role right now...the best center on this team, currently plays wing.
 

417

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Weise does not belong in the top 6 man. It's freaking asinine that you are even defending the notion. Seriously.

What's asinine is you thinking that I've ever defended the notion of Weise in the top 6.

I understand it, that's different. Dale Weise, right now, represents the poor man's version of the player the Habs need in that role.

I'm not defending anything, Dale Weise has no business on the top line...but the Habs don't have a better option right now.

Sorry...I like Sekac, but if the guy can't produce any shred of offense playing in a bottom 6 role, than I don't see how you can extrapolate that he would on the top 6 either.
 

Sant

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What's asinine is you thinking that I've ever defended the notion of Weise in the top 6.

I understand it, that's different. Dale Weise, right now, represents the poor man's version of the player the Habs need in that role.

I'm not defending anything, Dale Weise has no business on the top line...but the Habs don't have a better option right now.

Sorry...I like Sekac, but if the guy can't produce any shred of offense playing in a bottom 6 role, than I don't see how you can extrapolate that he would on the top 6 either.

that is backwards logic

Its the same backwards logic when ghetto got called up, played on the second line, produced 2 goals and 1 assist in his first 3 nhl games. Then immediately got demotted to the fourth line, didnt produce at all on the 4th line, and common sense would recognize that playing with maholtra and bournival will not inspire much offense, which lead to his demotion to hamilton.
 

HabsDieHard*

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1st: Giving a key role to a 21 year-old without experience at center for the previous four or five years.
2nd: Simply deadful. Sekac has one point in his last 10 games and PAP is injured and was cold even before then. Poor Pleks.
3rd: No offense whatsoever, questionable defensively with Thomas.
4th: Could be fun to watch, but probably not effective.

Moving Galchenyk to center weakens the whole lineup, for questionnable gains. Move him to Pleks' wing, put DD in his spot and bring down PAP with Eller and every single line then looks stronger.

...Except for the "1st" line which has our best scoring forward playing with a center on pace for 45 points and 12 goals.

:laugh:

Poor Plekx playing with Sekac and Parenteau? Poor Pacioretty getting dragged down by an inferior center because of the coaches favouritism.
 

HabsDieHard*

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What's asinine is you thinking that I've ever defended the notion of Weise in the top 6.

I understand it, that's different. Dale Weise, right now, represents the poor man's version of the player the Habs need in that role.

I'm not defending anything, Dale Weise has no business on the top line...but the Habs don't have a better option right now.

Sorry...I like Sekac, but if the guy can't produce any shred of offense playing in a bottom 6 role, than I don't see how you can extrapolate that he would on the top 6 either.

Lol, he has 15 points in the NHL as a rookie.

He is on pace for 30 points.

Go and take a look at how many forwards in 2013/2014 had more than 30 points.

Then come back here and tell us more about how he can't "produce any shred of offence playing in a bottom 6 role"

:laugh:
 

smirob

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I agree here...MT does play favorites with some of HIS players. Which isn't uncommon for any coach in any sport. He has his reasons and unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you want to see it), he's been successful.



Amazing revelation here...that's obvious isn't it?

As for Sekac, he's not producing now and he wasn't producing then either. I think you're infatuated with the idea of what Sekac can be, which is fine, but I don't necessarily have an issue with how MT has used him because I don't think he's really shown any consistency offensively, we've seen flashes. But again, 46 shots in 43 games? If you're just going to have a guy skate up and down right wing, might as well put Weise there, he offers more defensively and physically at this point.



Who told you I wasn't? lol



Again...how do you know this? My post history on this topic suggest otherwise, but i'd love to hear you enlighten me on what I was thinking at the time.



Not sure I agree that Sekac has 'clear top 6 talent'. I've seen flashes this year, but I've also seen a lot of "Jan Bulis" in him too. What kind of player Sekac turns out to be is anyone's guess, nothing anyone has seen so far can determine that for sure either way right now.


Hmm...I haven't justified keeping Weise in the top 6 at all, matter of fact, I've been saying since Day 1 this year that this team lacks a RW on the top line.

I just think that, right now, he's the best option. 2 weeks from now, maybe that answer is Sekac, I don't know. But today, it's either Weise or Gallagher



I've never trashed Plekanec, I just don't think he's as good as most Habs fans tend to think he is. He's a quality player though, i'm not a fool, I realize how valuable he is to the Habs, but IMO, he's not anymore suited to be the #1 center on this team than Desharnais is.

Neither player is ideal to play that role right now...the best center on this team, currently plays wing.

:shakehead

You are ridiculous
 

Andy

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Jun 26, 2008
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that is backwards logic

Its the same backwards logic when ghetto got called up, played on the second line, produced 2 goals and 1 assist in his first 3 nhl games. Then immediately got demotted to the fourth line, didnt produce at all on the 4th line, and common sense would recognize that playing with maholtra and bournival will not inspire much offense, which lead to his demotion to hamilton.

Especially when Dale Weise got a promotion into the top 6 after having a streak of 4 points in 19 games. His lack of production in the bottom 6 didn't stop MT from putting him on the first line. Also, he fails to grasp the logic that maybe Sekac will start producing in an offensive role.
 

417

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that is backwards logic

Its the same backwards logic when ghetto got called up, played on the second line, produced 2 goals and 1 assist in his first 3 nhl games. Then immediately got demotted to the fourth line, didnt produce at all on the 4th line, and common sense would recognize that playing with maholtra and bournival will not inspire much offense, which lead to his demotion to hamilton.

I haven't even said anything about Andrighetto, not sure why you're bringing this up.

Look, it's not really complicated.

This team lacks 2 top 6 forwards...there are only temporary solutions that exist on this roster. If the Habs want a legit RW to play on the 1st line, they're going to have to trade for him.

You don't like Desharnais? Fine, but unless the Habs put Galchenyuk back at centre, the answer lies outside the organization.

What many of you are suggesting is akin to re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Weise in the top 6 or Sekac in the top 6...it doesn't matter, neither of those players is the solution long term

Get real man
 

Andy

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Lol, he has 15 points in the NHL as a rookie.

He is on pace for 30 points.

Go and take a look at how many forwards in 2013/2014 had more than 30 points.

Then come back here and tell us more about how he can't "produce any shred of offence playing in a bottom 6 role"

:laugh:

Sekac can't produce offense, but in his rookie season, he has almost as many points as Dale Weise's career high in a single season, despite playing almost exclusively in the bottom 6.
 

HabsDieHard*

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Especially when Dale Weise got a promotion into the top 6 after having a streak of 4 points in 19 games. His lack of production in the bottom 6 didn't stop MT from putting him on the first line. Also, he fails to grasp the logic that maybe Sekac will start producing in an offensive role.

Isn't it funny how some players get promoted when not doing anything offensively yet others get called out over their lack of production?
 

Masuli

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Weise does his job effectively, he's a strong forechecker, he chips the puck out on his wing, plays physical and chips in offense when he can. It's certainly not his fault that he's playing in a role he's not suited for. It's more of an indication of what this team lacks, than anything he does.

I mean come on...he's already surpassed his career high in points, he's a +10, gives an honest effort every night and has chipped in with some very important goals for the Habs in his time here.

Earned himself a demotion? How?

Hell you can say all this as pro for Sekac to get the first line duty. Effort, checks, strong with puck, chips in as he can.

But there is something that speaks for Sekac and that's skill. Sekac has superior skill set against Weise. And you can't deny that.

And sine everything you said pro Weise can be said from Sekac too why is Weise still in the 1st line again?

Btw Weise has been horrendous in 1st line. He isn't producing and isn't suited for the role he is given.
 

Andy

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Weise in the top 6 or Sekac in the top 6...it doesn't matter, neither of those players is the solution long term

Get real man

You get real man. Weise won't be a solution ever. Sekac might be, but we won't know until he gets that chance. Weise got that chance for no reason either after going 19 games with 4 points. Why can't Sekac get that chance? None of them deserved it by your standards. Given that we are starting at the same baseline, I'd give the spot to Sekac alone because of his talent and because has pretty much matched Weise's career high playing in the bottom 6 as a rookie.
 

417

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Lol, he has 15 points in the NHL as a rookie.

He is on pace for 30 points.

Go and take a look at how many forwards in 2013/2014 had more than 30 points.

Then come back here and tell us more about how he can't "produce any shred of offence playing in a bottom 6 role"

:laugh:

LOL...since Sekac's 2 goal game on December 12th vs. the Kings...he has 1 goal in over 20 games since then

You guys serious right now? lol

You know...maybe Sekac will be a top 6 player one day, but right now, he's a player in a deep, deep slump. He's not the solution to the RW problem on the 1st line, not any more or any less than Weise is.
 

Devourers

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MT: Hey Jiri, you're going to be playing on the second line next game. You've earned it.
Sekac: Great coach! Who will I be playing with? Galchenyuk? Plekanec? Maybe even Max Pacioretty and David Desharnais?
MT: Whoooa there Jiri, you're playing on the second line with Plekanec an...
Sekac: YES!!!
MT: and... Dale Weise
Sekac: .......

I love Dale Weise, but man that line is questionable.
 

Andy

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LOL...since Sekac's 2 goal game on December 12th vs. the Kings...he has 1 goal in over 20 games since then

You guys serious right now? lol

You know...maybe Sekac will be a top 6 player one day, but right now, he's a player in a deep, deep slump. He's not the solution to the RW problem on the 1st line, not any more or any less than Weise is.

You know, Weise wasn't producing in the bottom 6 either and only started when playing next to Pacioretty right?
 

HabsDieHard*

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I haven't even said anything about Andrighetto, not sure why you're bringing this up.

Look, it's not really complicated.

This team lacks 2 top 6 forwards...there are only temporary solutions that exist on this roster. If the Habs want a legit RW to play on the 1st line, they're going to have to trade for him.

You don't like Desharnais? Fine, but unless the Habs put Galchenyuk back at centre, the answer lies outside the organization.

What many of you are suggesting is akin to re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Weise in the top 6 or Sekac in the top 6...it doesn't matter, neither of those players is the solution long term

Get real man

1) The Habs should put Galchenyuk back at centre, because keeping him on the wing when his "replacement" is a 5 foot 7 28 year old who doesn't kill penalties and is on pace for 45 points is absolutely moronic.

2) In his rookie season at 22 years old, and without having played for a massive chunk of the season at even strength wtih the teams' best forward Sekac has 2 fewer points than Weise.

People aren't talking here about the solution long term, they are talking about how illogical it is to use a 4th liner with Pacioretty. That there is a perfectly logical player to use in his place in Sekac just makes the conversation even more annoying.
 

smirob

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Jun 2, 2014
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LOL...since Sekac's 2 goal game on December 12th vs. the Kings...he has 1 goal in over 20 games since then

You guys serious right now? lol

You know...maybe Sekac will be a top 6 player one day, but right now, he's a player in a deep, deep slump. He's not the solution to the RW problem on the 1st line, not any more or any less than Weise is.

You do know that Desharnais went about 52 games without an even strength goal right....yet you continue to support him...

If you want to bring up goal production as the lynch pin.

:shakehead
 

417

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Especially when Dale Weise got a promotion into the top 6 after having a streak of 4 points in 19 games. His lack of production in the bottom 6 didn't stop MT from putting him on the first line. Also, he fails to grasp the logic that maybe Sekac will start producing in an offensive role.

Actually I haven't failed to grasp that at all...again, I've repeated SEVERAL times

To me...whether it's Weise or Sekac, it doesn't matter to me. It's splitting heirs as far as I'm concerned

Neither player is the answer to the problem on the 1st line.

That's what you don't understand...I find it laughable that you think replacing Dale Weise with Jiri Sekac is going to make any significant difference lol

Like the Habs have been sitting on a gold mine this whole year and didn't know it

Please lol:laugh:
 
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