Line Combos: Line projections

[NYR713]

I'm really interested to see Lindqvist and Meskanen in camp. Are we getting Stromwall/Kovacs or Fast?... or even Zuccarello? Probably not Zucc, most likely Stromwall/Kovacs but if one of them is a Fast type with a little more offense and maybe not as much defense... it's going to make some of these lineup decisions tough.

The hard part about lineups this season is that you aren't really putting a group together that you think is competing for a cup, but at the same time you still want to enhance development of some of the higher-projected young guys by giving them proper support and winning some games. You also have veterans that you want to see play in the system, but also want them to produce for trade value or confidence they can help lead in the future. Then you have a bunch of promising prospects that can up and down, but may want to see if playing against the tougher competition will be the right development path as compared to more minutes against lesser competition.

Decisions in that middle and bottom 6 are where it's at. For example, Nieves has paid his dues a bit and deserves a legit shot and could have a great camp, but if he isn't being seen as one of the guys they are looking to compete with in coming years then you might roll with a prospect or vet that they think could be a better option to see there, even if they didn't look as good from the jump. There are a lot of bubble guys like that like Spooner, Names, Vesey on that young veteran side... or Nieves, Lettieri as tweeners... or the prospects like Howden, Fontaine and previously mentioned Lindqvist and Meskanen. You even have Beleskey who they might want to get in there to prove he has a shred of trade value by getting a fast start to the season.

So many options for these guys to look at, which is a great thing. It may not be the best for tanking though, because there a lot of options with a lot to prove over this season. I seriously doubt that "lack of effort" will be a legitimate complaint this upcoming season.

 

[NYR713]

LW-C-RW
Kreider-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Namestnikov-Chytil-Zuccarello
Vesey-Hayes-Spooner
Meskanen/Lindqvist-Andersson-Fast
Most likely Nieves is the 13th forward. Maybe Beleskey if he has a good camp.

LD-RD
Skjei-Shattenkirk
Staal-Pionk
Smith-DeAngelo
Claesson

Lundqvist-Georgiev

I hope I'm not being too optimistic thinking McLeod plays in Hartford.

I truly think McLeod is around a 20 games played on the season and that's when playing teams like Isles (loaded with hard nosed douche bags haha), Philly or any of those types of teams that will pride themselves on playing a tough style. With all the options they'll need to look at, I can't see him playing all that much.

 

[Elliman]

Talk to the oilers. For every Penguins or Blackhawks, there are like 5 Edmontons.

True. But the Oil have McDavid!

 

[Elliman]

Karlsson will be 29 and Panarin 28. You think they'd want to sign their last big contract for a team that has been **** for the past couple years and that for a second straight year dumped a bunch of veterans and otherwise useful players? I'm not so sure. I know people want to play in NY, but are those guys gonna sign up to be the guys that hopefully move us from rebuilding to being good to contending? I wouldn't bank on it. I'd think they'd sign somewhere they feel they can win Cups in the first couple years of their deals.

Yes, I think EK and Panarin would love to play for the Rangers. We are constantly In The top 5 destinations that players want to live/play in. We are an original six franchise in the most alluring city in the world with an arena that is world famous. We are the New York Rangers. A world known brand.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If Andersson does well enough to play with the big club, you make room for him in the top 9. Vesey, Spooner or Namestnikov lose their spots. Should be that simple.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

I'm really interested to see Lindqvist and Meskanen in camp. Are we getting Stromwall/Kovacs or Fast?... or even Zuccarello? Probably not Zucc, most likely Stromwall/Kovacs but if one of them is a Fast type with a little more offense and maybe not as much defense... it's going to make some of these lineup decisions tough.

The hard part about lineups this season is that you aren't really putting a group together that you think is competing for a cup, but at the same time you still want to enhance development of some of the higher-projected young guys by giving them proper support and winning some games. You also have veterans that you want to see play in the system, but also want them to produce for trade value or confidence they can help lead in the future. Then you have a bunch of promising prospects that can up and down, but may want to see if playing against the tougher competition will be the right development path as compared to more minutes against lesser competition.

Decisions in that middle and bottom 6 are where it's at. For example, Nieves has paid his dues a bit and deserves a legit shot and could have a great camp, but if he isn't being seen as one of the guys they are looking to compete with in coming years then you might roll with a prospect or vet that they think could be a better option to see there, even if they didn't look as good from the jump. There are a lot of bubble guys like that like Spooner, Names, Vesey on that young veteran side... or Nieves, Lettieri as tweeners... or the prospects like Howden, Fontaine and previously mentioned Lindqvist and Meskanen. You even have Beleskey who they might want to get in there to prove he has a shred of trade value by getting a fast start to the season.

So many options for these guys to look at, which is a great thing. It may not be the best for tanking though, because there a lot of options with a lot to prove over this season. I seriously doubt that "lack of effort" will be a legitimate complaint this upcoming season.

I agree... how viable are those options, we'll see... Fast was actually drafted... MZA (and maybe Stralman or G) was arguably the best undrafted FA entry signing in a long time for NYR... it seems they rarely become simply OK bottom-six guys... the Rangers have been really boom or bust with them... obviously 99% bust.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

Ask the penguins fans how they feel about tanking.

They don't remember. None of them we're around back then.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Regarding the PP I'm 100% in th Ola camp that handedness trumps skill to a larger extent than most seem to believe and that there are two setups that currently work very well which I'd like to call the "Washington" and the 1-3-1.

The Washington requires two playmakers with the same handedness, a QB and a shooter with the opposite handedness and a screener preferably with the same handedness as the QB/shooter. The screener can move up into the slot as another shooting option when the puck is down low if that is the case. The Rangers have the personnel to make this work, but it would be even better if Kreider shot right and could bang in 1-timers like Oshie.

The 1-3-1 is the same but has two shooters (with the same handedness) instead of two playmakers and instead of positioning themselves low/high along the wall like the playmakers in the Washington scheme, they are on the top of the circle and high slot. This is the scheme AV tried to run but the Rangers don't really have the players for this. He put LH Buch/Zucc as the 2nd shooter IIRC and it got kind of awkward.

In both schemes puck movement is quick and natural as the stcks are always in a position that gives options. The "redundant" guys are constantly switching position with each other to create havoc.

With a Washington scheme the Rangers PPs would look like:
PP1
Screen: Kreider
LHPLY: Zucc, Buch
RHQB: Shattenkirk
RHSH: Zibanejad

PP2
Screen: Fast
LHPLY: Hayes, Spooner
RHQB/SH: DeAngelo, Pionk

The 2nd unit might actually be even more dynamic than the first as ADA and Pionk can switch around to create even more movement and Fast can move up to bang in 1-timers like Kreider cannot.

 

[Trxjw]

I'm still not convinced that Spooner is around when camp starts.

Additionally, I don't think the Rangers gave Vesey that bridge deal with the intention of playing him on the 4th line. He should get meaningful 5v5 minutes and should be the net-front guy on the 2nd PP unit. They need to see what they have with him.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I'm still not convinced that Spooner is around when camp starts.

Additionally, I don't think the Rangers gave Vesey that bridge deal with the intention of playing him on the 4th line. He should get meaningful 5v5 minutes and should be the net-front guy on the 2nd PP unit. They need to see what they have with him.

If he earns it, sure. He's been promoted to the top-6 after 1 good game so many times, only to completely disappear. Maybe Vesey is just the type of player that thrives in a smaller role, like Hagelin.

 

[SA16]

Regarding the PP I'm 100% in th Ola camp that handedness trumps skill to a larger extent than most seem to believe and that there are two setups that currently work very well which I'd like to call the "Washington" and the 1-3-1.

The Washington requires two playmakers with the same handedness, a QB and a shooter with the opposite handedness and a screener preferably with the same handedness as the QB/shooter. The screener can move up into the slot as another shooting option when the puck is down low if that is the case. The Rangers have the personnel to make this work, but it would be even better if Kreider shot right and could bang in 1-timers like Oshie.

The 1-3-1 is the same but has two shooters (with the same handedness) instead of two playmakers and instead of positioning themselves low/high along the wall like the playmakers in the Washington scheme, they are on the top of the circle and high slot. This is the scheme AV tried to run but the Rangers don't really have the players for this. He put LH Buch/Zucc as the 2nd shooter IIRC and it got kind of awkward.

In both schemes puck movement is quick and natural as the stcks are always in a position that gives options. The "redundant" guys are constantly switching position with each other to create havoc.

With a Washington scheme the Rangers PPs would look like:
PP1
Screen: Kreider
LHPLY: Zucc, Buch
RHQB: Shattenkirk
RHSH: Zibanejad

PP2
Screen: Fast
LHPLY: Hayes, Spooner
RHQB/SH: DeAngelo, Pionk

The 2nd unit might actually be even more dynamic than the first as ADA and Pionk can switch around to create even more movement and Fast can move up to bang in 1-timers like Kreider cannot.

Handedness is far underrated in general. The Rangers have had a forward group with like 9-10 lefties for years and it's always been an issue. The only righties have really been Zibanejad/Stepan/Fast.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Where is the place for Vesey in the top 9? If Andersson and Chytil have spots, I count 9 with Kreids, Zib, Buch, Zucc, Hayes, Chytil, Andersson, Spooner and Namestnikov.

I think the spot for Vesey could be there if one of them doesn’t open up on the team, but I don’t see why we should assume that, and I also don’t think he should be given that spot over Fast, Meskanen, Lindqvist, Lettieri. He should have to earn it, considering how poorly he’s done the last two seasons.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Penciling in Chytil as 2nd line center is a very good way to assure a bottom five finish. Andersson, IMO, is more prepared to play center at the NHL level, and I wouldn’t have him slotted higher than 3C.

As for the D, Skjei and ADA looked very comfortable as a pairing, and Staal looked his best next to Shattenkirk. Pionk is probably better served then playing next to Smith if he makes the team, or Claesson.

 

[Blue Blooded]

I think Skjei and DeAngelo would be dynamite together, a much better version of Skjei-Clendening.

 

[nyr2k2]

Where is the place for Vesey in the top 9? If Andersson and Chytil have spots, I count 9 with Kreids, Zib, Buch, Zucc, Hayes, Chytil, Andersson, Spooner and Namestnikov.

I think the spot for Vesey could be there if one of them doesn’t open up on the team, but I don’t see why we should assume that, and I also don’t think he should be given that spot over Fast, Meskanen, Lindqvist, Lettieri. He should have to earn it, considering how poorly he’s done the last two seasons.

I would agree he shouldn't be given a spot over Fast and should have to earn it. But Meskanen? Lindqvist? Lettieri? Meskanen and Lindqvist have done literally nothing in North America and shouldn't be given a spot over anyone, even a guy like Vesey, who while totally one-dimensional has shown he can at least score 15+ goals when given minutes. We honestly have no idea if Meskanen and Lindqvist are even remotely NHL-caliber, so we definitely shouldn't be reserving spots for them ahead of Vesey (or anyone, really). If anyone needs to win a spot in the top nine you'd think it would be two guys that are complete unknowns. And honestly, while I like Lettieri, he doesn't seem so different than Vesey in that he's pretty one-dimensional at this point.

I really liked the Meskanen and Lindqvist signings. However, given their lack of familiarity with the speed, rink size, and spacing of the NHL game, I'd be kind of surprised if either broke with the club. If you watch those highlight videos of them (I know, I know, highlight videos) they both seemed to thrive primarily on having a nice pocket to setup shop and rip one-timers. That's not going to really exist for them in the NHL the way it did in Liiga and the SHL. I'm more confident in Meskanen due to his size and the fact that the videos I've watched show that he also has strong willingness to go to the net. But, we'll see. Again I'd expect an adjustment. It took Zucc a year-plus and a trip to the KHL before he made the full adjustment, and he's an exceptional talent.

 

[nyr2k2]

Yes, I think EK and Panarin would love to play for the Rangers. We are constantly In The top 5 destinations that players want to live/play in. We are an original six franchise in the most alluring city in the world with an arena that is world famous. We are the New York Rangers. A world known brand.

I mean, I said in my first post, I understand it's NY and people want to sign here. But again, your post was suggesting selling off between five and nine veteran players, including guys like Hayes, Zuccarello, Shattenkirk, Lundqvist, etc. Those are major, veteran components of the team and it's basically signaling to everyone that, hey, we're still full-on in the rebuild. Panarin hasn't won a Cup and likely won't this year. Karlsson hasn't won a Cup, won't win it this year, and has missed the playoffs as much as he's made it.

I think it's somewhat naive to think that two guys that will be coveted by literally everyone would want to sign with a team that would have been out of the playoffs for two years and just sold off even more of the team, simply because we're Original Six and in NYC. There are other attractive markets out there, other teams that would be able to afford to sign one of these guys, that are also already in a state where they could compete for a Cup. Under your scenario the guys would be signing with an up-and-coming team (assuming the kids develop) that would hopefully be competing for a Cup within a couple years of the signings. That might not be what either of those guys are looking for. In fact I'd bet they'd want to go the Tavares route, joining a team with the elite young talent already in place where they could help push it over the top.

It's just hard for me to get behind a plan that relies on trading half of our remaining team and then hoping two awesome UFAs sign with us because New York.

 

[Dijock94]

Kreider - Zibanejad - Buchnevich
Namestnikov - Chytil - Zuccarello
Vesey - Hayes - Spooner
Belesky - Andersson - Fast
(Nieves - McLeod)

Skjei - Shattenkirk
Staal - DeAngelo
Smith - Pionk
(Claesson)

Lundqvist
Mazanec

 

[Mikos87]

Handedness is far underrated in general. The Rangers have had a forward group with like 9-10 lefties for years and it's always been an issue. The only righties have really been Zibanejad/Stepan/Fast.

It affects the cycle, where goalies cheat etc... If you look at what ANA iced, NSH, WPG... those teams have better shooting angles and scoring chances because of the right shot option. There is a correlated stat about teams with the top PPs the last several years and the amount of RH shots they have.

WSH, NSH, WPG... look at their shots, scoring chances, PP zone time and the rh shots they keep out there. ANA was one from a couple of year ago, especially during the Selanne days.

League wide, there is something the likelihood of a PP goal being scored is ~70% higher with 3 RH shots on the ice relative to controlled zone time. Some crazy figure like that.

There's another one where if you have two successful passes across the home plate (net front, between the dots) between RH & LH options, the chances of a goalie making a save on a one-time on net is ~<30%. (Watch Kuch, Stamkos run this play). Basically if the shooter doesn't flub it, it's the hockey equivalent of an alley-oop.

There's a correction Quinn can make to AV's do the same shit instructions with Kreider and Zibs. Kreider screens tilt towards the wrong side, he needs to veer towards the off-wing, and either let Zibs rip it, or grab the off-wing rebound on a low right pad shot... they'll score more this way. It's one of those things that always bothered me that a "smart" player like Kreider never figured out... or a "smart" coach like AV never instructed.

 

[Algernop Kreider]

I really like Rosen's lineup. IMO the important things are to keep KZB together, staple Chytil to Zuccarello, and banish the plugs to the AHL. If we have a lineup that looks like Rosen's, where Chytil and Andersson are both getting reps down the middle, and we have 4 rollable lines, I'll be very happy.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Penciling in Chytil as 2nd line center is a very good way to assure a bottom five finish.

Thats exactly what we want.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't know why so many of you are penciling DeAngelo into a spot, especially a spot on the first pair.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Thats exactly what we want.

I don't know why so many of you are penciling DeAngelo into a spot, especially a spot on the first pair.

If you think DeAngelo stinks (like you do) but he has good potential as he is incredibly skilled (like you seem to do) and you want to finish as low as possible (like you do), wouldn't putting DeAngelo on the first pairing be exactly the thing to do?

 

[Blue Blooded]

I think people wanting to look at a Skjei-DeAngelo pairing are 1) not expecting it to actually happen and 2) are probably thinking it to be more of a 1A/B or 2nd pairing rather than a 30 min/night thing.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If you think DeAngelo stinks (like you do) but he has good potential as he is incredibly skilled (like you seem to do) and you want to finish as low as possible (like you do), wouldn't putting DeAngelo on the first pairing be exactly the thing to do?

That would be wrong. I don’t think he has great potential due to what I’ve seen of his play, although I respect his style of game.

I don’t have an issue with handing a spot to Chytil because he’s ready to play in the NHL and he’s one of the team’s best assets. I also don’t care about our record this year. The worse we are, the better. I think the situation with DeAngelo is different. Do we even know that he’s going to be better than a marginal NHL’er? Does it even help the team long term to play DeAngelo over someone like Gilmour or one of the younger D? I don’t know. I wouldn’t pencil DeAngelo into a top 6 spot yet.

I think playing DeAngelo in a big role would make us worse, but we should put out a somewhat competitive team, even if losing isn’t that bad for the team. It’s 50/50 whether Chytil can play center in the NHL. And he wouldn’t even get 2C minutes, so it’s not the issue some claim it is. It’s harder to play a defenseman on the first pair and play them 6D minutes than manage forward minutes based on line. I’m also not sure why we’d want Skjei to have to deal with that this season.

 

[eco's bones]

As far as DeAngelo last year I was less than impressed. Skill wise he is very talented but his overall play in games--particularly his defensive play wasn't very good. Even the offense--8 assists in 32 games--only 2 of those assists at even strength--left me pretty underwhelmed. His defensive positioning was poor enough that they couldn't use him as a penalty killer--problematical when you have other D who don't kill penalties well either.

Maybe a slightly better player than Ryan Murphy. He's a guy I look to trade. I also value Pionk a lot more than him. Pionk does have some of the same size/strength issues that DeAngelo has but his defensive positioning is much better. His compete in one on one battles is much better. He might not be quite as flashly as DeAngelo offensively but his 1 goal and 14 points in 28 games--9 even strength points is a lot better than DeAngelo's 8 assists in 32 with only 2 even strength points. The Rangers played Pionk in all situations and gave him heavy minutes against top lines going down the final stretch and he responded very well.

Nor do I have Brendan Smith pencilled in either. Yeah--he's got a big contract. He also had a shit season and deserved his demotion to Hartford.

Looking at the Rangers D

These are the 3 absolutes that are going to make the team:

1. Shattenkirk
2. Skjei
3. Staal

These are 2 that are most likely to make the team:

4. Pionk
5. Claesson

After that is the battle for the two remaining spots between:

6. Hajek
7. Lindgren
8. Smith
9. DeAngelo
10. O'Gara
11. Gilmour
12. Kampfer
13. Bigras

Let the best two win but personally I would hope that one of Hajek/Lindgren comes out of training camp with an NHL job.