Confirmed with Link: Lindsay Hofford Leaves Leafs | Hired as AGM & Dir. Of Scouting By ARI

[Cor]

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[Mess]

Leafs should have fired him after his drunken golf cart hit and run incident.

 

[ACC1224]

Not surprised.
He and Hunter will be missed.

 

[DarkKnight]

Not surprised.
He and Hunter will be missed.

And it's okay to admit that.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Bye Felecia Lindsay

 

[Menzinger]

Leafs should have fired him after his drunken golf cart hit and run incident.

I was pretty surprised that MLSE didn’t fire him after that, seems like a corporate entity wouldn’t like that kind of publicity

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Not surprised.
He and Hunter will be missed.

what does Hunter have to do with this? he's been gone for a while now. Anyway, not going to miss someone who's best known for getting a DUI

 

[DarkKnight]

It was a golf cart at an amusement park where everyone drinks, he wasn't on Yonge St, lol.

 

[phillipmike]

That is a pretty big promotion. Good for him.

 

[Leafidelity]

Hard to turn down a promotion of that magnitude

 

[Liminality]

Hard to turn down a promotion of that magnitude

Yeah seriously, don't think he'd get that kind of chance here. Good for him.

 

[93LEAFS]

Good for him. Bit of a surprising hire for Arizona.

I say this seriously, I legit wonder if this is a pay raise.

 

[Warden of the North]

Not surprising. He could be GM there within a year.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Fine by me. Everyone knew it would happen eventually.

Plus, his OHL track record has been far from sparkling right now and he had that incident. I'd rather give Dubas a chance to find someone better.

Dubas should go look for a couple of guys with experience with the GTA and the majority of the OHL. One of which would be the new Eastern Scouting Director of course.

Also need a US Scouting Director (likely just going to be Vesey), two Russian Scouts, and maybe a scout to expand into the Maritimes as well as potentially someone to replace Martino in USHL region since he may be leaving (not that we have really been drafting out of those regions in the first place).

 

[93LEAFS]

I'd add, I don't think Hofford is a great loss. I never thought his GTA scouting for the Knights was that great, outside of Marner which fell into his lap or a case like Domi which was clearly cooked.

what does Hunter have to do with this? he's been gone for a while now. Anyway, not going to miss someone who's best known for getting a DUI

He should be best known as the scout who discovered and pushed hard for Mitch Marner for both us and the Knights. Although, that sort of fell into his lap, as he was Marner's coach at lower levels (pretty sure he's known about him as a player since Mitch was 10).

 

[93LEAFS]

Fine by me. Everyone knew it would happen eventually.

Plus, his OHL track record has been far from sparkling right now and he had that incident. I'd rather give Dubas a chance to find someone better.

Dubas should go look for a couple of guys with experience with the GTA and the majority of the OHL. One of which would be the new Scouting Director of course.

He'll most likely let his buddy Clark run the region, which he was going to do anyway. Lilley is our new director of Amateur Scouting, and he is primarily based in the North East. The official pecking order is.

Director of Player Personnel (Morrison) - Assistant Director of Player Personnel (Wes Clark) - Director of Scouting (Lilley) - Regional Directors (currently just Speltz and Vuori) - Local Scouts

Now, who knows if they actually officially replace Lilley and Hofford's title. As pointed out previously, who runs a teams draft board is generally unclear by titles. Sometimes, its an AGM like Trevor Timmins and previously Mark Hunter here, other times its a Director of Player Personnel (originally Hunters title, and Gordie Clark of the Rangers title) and in some cases such as Calgary its the Director of Am-Scouting like Tod Button.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'd add, I don't think Hofford is a great loss. I never thought his GTA scouting for the Knights was that great, outside of Marner which fell into his lap or a case like Domi which was clearly cooked.


He should be best known as the scout who discovered and pushed hard for Mitch Marner for both us and the Knights. Although, that sort of fell into his lap, as he was Marner's coach at lower levels (pretty sure he's known about him as a player since Mitch was 10).

At the very least his OHL record for the Leafs has not been great. For supposidly being Hunter and Hofford's bread and butter as well, getting one good pick (Dermott) in three years is hardly what I would call a great track record. Especially since a 4th, two 6ths and a 7th have flamed out before even making it to the Marlies, and the other ones (Rasanen, Gordeev, McGregor, O'Connell) need a fair amount of work before reaching their potential.

The Leafs can do better than that in a prime region for sure.

 

[ACC1224]

what does Hunter have to do with this? he's been gone for a while now. Anyway, not going to miss someone who's best known for getting a DUI

Hofford joined the Leafs because of Hunter, they have a long history.
If not for Hofford, Marner never goes to London and is probably never a Leaf.
Obviously you know little about him if that's what you think he's "best known for'.

We never heard anything more about that incident as I recall.
With the Leafs not turfing him there must have been more to it.

 

[93LEAFS]

At the very least his OHL record for the Leafs has not been great. For supposidly being Hunter and Hofford's bread and butter as well, getting one good pick (Dermott) in three years is hardly what I would call a great track record. Especially since a 4th, two 6ths and a 7th have flamed out before even making it to the Marlies, and the other ones (Rasanen, Gordeev, McGregor, O'Connell) need a fair amount of work before reaching their potential.

The Leafs can do better than that in a prime region for sure.

I think I'd call Marner a great pick. He wasn't a lock to be picked there, if Bob McKenzie's scout rankings list are to be believed, most scouts would have taken Hanifin.

As for the others, you can't expect to hit on every pick. If you hit on 1 second rounder out of those picks allocated, you actually did decent overall. Late picks are such long-shots, and how long they take to develop, you can't heavily fault an organization for missing on those. If Marner becomes an 80 pt franchise RWer, and Dermott becomes a solid top 4 defender, they leave with a pretty strong drafting record out of Ontario, regardless of everyone else flaming out.

 

[Knightnight]

It was a golf cart at an amusement park where everyone drinks, he wasn't on Yonge St, lol.

And all charges were dropped.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He'll most likely let his buddy Clark run the region, which he was going to do anyway. Lilley is our new director of Amateur Scouting, and he is primarily based in the North East. The official pecking order is.

Director of Player Personnel (Morrison) - Assistant Director of Player Personnel (Wes Clark) - Director of Scouting (Lilley) - Regional Directors (currently just Speltz and Vuori) - Local Scouts

Now, who knows if they actually officially replace Lilley and Hofford's title. As pointed out previously, who runs a teams draft board is generally unclear by titles. Sometimes, its an AGM like Trevor Timmins and previously Mark Hunter here, other times its a Director of Player Personnel (originally Hunters title, and Gordie Clark of the Rangers title) and in some cases such as Calgary its the Director of Am-Scouting like Tod Button.

Clark would be a great fit if he does not have too many responsibilities. I am pretty sure he was highly regarded in the Hofford region (GTA/Central Ontario) when he was a scout. I would still get another guy for the GTA/Central Ontario region because there is a lot of talent to scout and Clark would have split responsibilities. However, I do not mind giving him the title of Eastern Scouting Director and being one of the two guys I would have scout there.

I think Vesey has earned Lilley's old title. It's not really any sort of a step up in terms of responsibilities (he'll still be primarily responsible for the North East Region like Lilley was) but he is our best US scout now that Lilley won't be primarily focusing there anymore so you might as well just give him the title internally. You do not need to bring in anyone new unless you want to upgrade Martino in the USHL region (which is Minnesota, the Dakotas, Wisconsin, Illinois, Missouri, etc.), but that guy would likely not get the US Director title.

Other than that, you only need two Russian scouts to replace Namestnikov and Ladygin, and maybe a Maritimes scout if you want a guy primarly focused on teams like Halifax, Saint John, Acadie-Bathurst, etc. Halifax and Saint John specifically are going to have a lot of high end talent coming in the next few years, and it may be a bit too much for Charbonneau (and probably Robidas occasionally too since he does co-own a QMJHL franchise and coaches a minor team among his Leafs responsibilities) to cover on his own. Paiement covers Western Quebec and Northern Ontario I am pretty sure.

 

[DarkKnight]

He just got promoted, and he wasn't let go here, so he clearly is a valued asset. I guess everything has to boil down to biased defending or trashing Dubas.

I think we should all keep an open mind moving forward, I for one am over the Hunter departure. I think Kyle has done a good job, obviously Tavares and I didn't mind our draft. On the other hand, the scouting moves we've seen, I haven't really been impressed to be honest. I mean people are bashing Holford's record, Morrison and Lilley hardly impressive, "old school" and they have bigger roles. Right now our scouting department as a whole surely doesn't look improved over last year, hard to objectively argue differently imho.

 

[93LEAFS]

Clark would be a great fit if he does not have too many responsibilities. I am pretty sure he was highly regarded in the Hofford region (GTA/Central Ontario) when he was a scout. I would still get another guy for the GTA/Central Ontario region because there is a lot of talent to scout and Clark would have split responsibilities. However, I do not mind giving him the title of Eastern Scouting Director and being one of the two guys I would have scout there.

I think Vesey has earned Lilley's old title. It's not really any sort of a step up in terms of responsibilities (he'll still be primarily responsible for the North East Region like Lilley was) but he is our best US scout now that Lilley won't be primarily focusing there anymore so you might as well just give him the title internally. You do not need to bring in anyone new unless you want to upgrade Martino in the USHL region (which is Minnesota, the Dakotas, Wisconsin, Illinois, Missouri, etc.), but that guy would likely not get the US Director title.

Other than that, you only need two Russian scouts to replace Namestnikov and Ladygin, and maybe a Maritimes scout if you want a guy primarly focused on teams like Halifax, Saint John, Acadie-Bathurst, etc. Halifax and Saint John specifically are going to have a lot of high end talent coming in the next few years, and it may be a bit too much for Charbonneau (and probably Robidas occasionally too since he does co-own a QMJHL franchise and coaches a minor team among his Leafs responsibilities) to cover on his own. Paiement covers Western Quebec and Northern Ontario I am pretty sure.

I wouldn't say highly regarded. He has a two-year track record as an NHL scout, with the Panthers. He got his job due to being highly regarded by Dubas and close friends with him. Nothing else on his CV screams hire at the position he got.

The Leafs need to sort our Russia if they are going to draft out of there, as right now they don't have anyone there.

A guy like Lilley would also see a lot of the Maritimes. Boston to Halifax or Saint John is a very short flight, and I don't think he's relocating out of Boston. Keep in mind, high-school hockey and College don't kick off until later in the year and end earlier in the year. Giving Boston based scouts significant time to spend in the Maritimes while traveling out.

While Russia needs re-tooling. We haven't actually seen many people in total leave, they are just under different titles currently.

In effect, Morrison replaces Hunter, and Clark replaces Hofford, despite the differing titles. Clark also may have been given such a weird title (I can't think of another team that has someone with his title) so that Dubas could hire his friend out of Florida and justify it as a full promotion.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think I'd call Marner a great pick. He wasn't a lock to be picked there, if Bob McKenzie's scout rankings list are to be believed, most scouts would have taken Hanifin.

As for the others, you can't expect to hit on every pick. If you hit on 1 second rounder out of those picks allocated, you actually did decent overall. Late picks are such long-shots, and how long they take to develop, you can't heavily fault an organization for missing on those. If Marner becomes an 80 pt franchise RWer, and Dermott becomes a solid top 4 defender, they leave with a pretty strong drafting record out of Ontario, regardless of everyone else flaming out.

There is nothing wrong with taking Hanifin over Marner. Most people knew Hanifin would probably take longer to reach his potential being a larger defenseman, but he's a better player if he does reach his potential. Outside of Zacha and Timo Meier (who was a clear reach), no one else in the top 10 would have been a bad pick at number 4. Rantanen is already an 80+ point winger. Provorov, Hanifin and Werenski look like top pairing guys in the near future. Marner was also considered someone who was always going to be a pretty good player, but he was going to be a smaller winger.

Hitting on top picks does not make you a good scout. That is like the baseline expectation, so it does say you are not a terrible scout. Dermott was good. The rest was either 'meh' (although I do like Rasanen) or already a bust and did not even have all that much upside. People always say late round picks rarely ever make it, but they usually can make it to the AHL, especially if you are picking guys like Mattinen, Desrocher and Middleton.

 

[93LEAFS]

There is nothing wrong with taking Hanifin over Marner. Most people knew Hanifin would probably take longer to reach his potential being a larger defenseman, but he's a better player if he does reach his potential. Outside of Zacha and Timo Meier (who was a clear reach), no one else in the top 10 would have been a bad pick at number 4. Rantanen is already an 80+ point winger. Provorov, Hanifin and Werenski look like top pairing guys in the near future. Marner was also considered someone who was always going to be a pretty good player, but he was going to be a smaller winger.

Hitting on top picks does not make you a good scout. That is like the baseline expectation, so it does say you are not a terrible scout. Dermott was good. The rest was either 'meh' (although I do like Rasanen) or already a bust and did not even have all that much upside. People always say late round picks rarely ever make it, but they usually can make it to the AHL, especially if you are picking guys like Mattinen, Desrocher and Middleton.

I'd take Marner over all those defenders back then, and would still today, with only Provorov being that debatable right now. Marner would also put up 80 points if he got 3 minutes and 45 seconds a game on the powerplay. I definitely wouldn't have traded Marner for Hanifin or for Dougie Hamilton. Marner if he reaches his potential as a Kane or Giroux like offensive force, is not worse than a Noah Hanifin who hits his potential.

Again, if you get a franchise winger at 4, and hit on one of 2 second round picks you did well drafting from that region, regardless if the other players took turn into nothing. Seriously, one out of 5 2nd rounders actually become something of value. In the 4th or later, it is very rare to get a valued NHLer who isn't replaceable by waivers.