Lindros with Quebec
- Thread starter Smirnov2Chistov
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Big Phil
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- Nov 2, 2003
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What was it about Aubut (and I will admit I know the guy isn't thought of favourably in Quebec but don't know 100% why) that was so bad?
Also, Lindros' family wrote a book in 1991 explaining things. This was right at the time it happened, it was fresh, and they wanted to clear the air right at that time. I will have to re-read it again but I don't remember Aubut being the central reason as to why they didn't want to go to Quebec.
Also, Lindros' family wrote a book in 1991 explaining things. This was right at the time it happened, it was fresh, and they wanted to clear the air right at that time. I will have to re-read it again but I don't remember Aubut being the central reason as to why they didn't want to go to Quebec.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/...but-scandal-we-could-have-done-more-1.3401842
This is the tip of the iceberg. He had other issues. Lindros said something along the lines of that it wasn't the city, it was the owner.
Cursed Lemon
Registered Bruiser
Well that takes care of Quebec...now about the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds...
Great point. I know Lindros can point to the woman he married as evidence of his not bearing any personal prejudice against Quebec or its residents, but I just don’t buy it. I also don’t believe he would have played for Montreal, either.
A bad owner in Quebec City is a very convenient “out” for Eric. Lindros was a good enough prospect to leverage his way out of Quebec. Bully for him.
I’m kind of happy he got to watch Colorado hoist the Cup on TV.
Big Phil
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I am not downplaying this or anything, but if these sort of allegations were the reasons you didn't want to play for a certain owner then there would be a lot less owners to play for and players to sign. It is just that I remember the Lindros family's book in 1991 and the things they emphasized on why they didn't want to play there. In general it came down to money and the amount of money that Eric could earn, or should earn, and how that market just couldn't cut it. There was the mention of Eric being a proud Canadian caught up in a separatist-era province and how that could cause problems.
Then there is the exact same issue two years earlier in Sault St. Marie. The Greyhounds draft Lindros 1st overall and he doesn't report because it is basically too far away from home. Oshawa, just outside of Toronto, wasn't and that is where the Lindros family was living. As if Eric was the only 16 year old in the history of junior hockey with NHL aspirations that had to leave his hometown to play hockey. Carl Lindros said that he almost slugged Greyhounds GM Phil Esposito in the face because of this.
So my point is, the Lindros family just never seemed to be happy anywhere. Eric contributed greatly in what we see with the modern athlete/hockey player demanding things before he has even earned it. We complain about "kids today" not wanting to earn anything. Well, that's true, but Eric sure helped to popularize this theory in hockey.
My thought on whether or not he would be paid fairly is this right here. If Lindros reports to Quebec he is on a great up and coming team that wins a Cup 5 and then another 5 years later. Two Cups. His impact, with the selling of jerseys and such propels Quebec and puts them on the NHL map. Perhaps at the top of the NHL map, especially if they win the Cup. If he wins a Cup, the marketing opportunities would jump through the roof, small market or not. Put it this way, we just saw Patrick Mahomes win a Super Bowl for the Kansas City Chiefs. They've been around for a long time, but go ahead and try to find a Chiefs fan outside of Missouri/Kansas. There aren't many. They just aren't a flagship franchise, they never have been. Len Dawson won a Super Bowl for them 50 years earlier, but there just aren't Chiefs fans around. Now? This team is on top of the world. Mahomes is not playing for the Cowboys, 49ers or Patriots, but right now he is the biggest name in football and will forever be known as a champion. The opportunities will be endless for him. Lindros missed this chance for his own greed, because he thought before he even played a minute of NHL hockey he was above all of this, and above the game.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
There haven't been many other NHL owners who were has not well-liked as Aubut. Jeremy Jacobs and Eugene Melnyk are pricks, but sexual assault charges are something else.
Not at all. The team was up and coming because of the ransom the Nordiques got from the Flyers. The reason the Nords and then the Avs were so good was because Hextall, Duchesne, Ricci, Forsberg, and numerous other contributors along with 7 figures in cash came in from Philadelphia. The Nords only had Sakic. Owen Nolan and Mats Sundin were out the door soon enough.
And jersey sales, especially in one of the smallest pro markets in North America, is not a lot of money. Marketing opportunities for Lindros with a cup win in Québec City would be less than and maybe equal to regular marketing opportunities everywhere else in the league.
Comparing Mahomes winning the Super Bowl with Kansas City, one of the biggest trophies in athletics for a medium-sized NFL market, with Lindros winning the Cup in Québec City, the least popular of the 4 North American sports league's trophies in the second smallest North American pro sports market, does not provide an accurate analogy. Not even close.
FerrisRox
"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
You should believe it. The Canadiens were very much in the mix of trade conversations at the time. There's no way that they would be discussing trade particulars with the Nordiques if he wasn't willing to report to Montreal. He also said, various times, that he would have happily reported to Montreal. Montreal, Philadelphia, Detroit and the Rangers were said to be the teams that were very much in the discussion to acquire Lindros.
The Panther
Registered User
That's not really true. In 1992-93, Lindros's NHL rookie season, the Nordiques improved from 52 to 104 points in one season. Duchesne and Ricci were good players, but they don't account for a 52-point improvement in one year. I think the Nords were improving with or without the Lindros deal, and if Lindros had gone there they'd have been up near the top of the standings for years (as they were anyway).
Should I? I don’t ever remember hearing about that even once before now, but I’ll take your word for it.
On the one hand, I’m thankful Lindros didn’t go to a Bruins division rival, but on the other, it just seemed absurd that he was telling the NHL where he was going to go and where he wasn’t. Who did he think he was? Throw in that mom & dad got so involved made the whole situation even more laughable.
I’m an American who has never lived in Canada. In fact, I’ve probably spent less than 14 days north of the border, so I cannot speak of Canadian culture or the politics of the early ‘90s, but from where I was sitting, it looked to me like there was more to his not wanting to go to QC than what he was saying. Read into that what you will.
He did say that there weren’t good marketing opportunities and his exposure to mainstream media wouldn’t be as great there. How did that work out?
As a Flyer and after, I never saw him in commercials or print ads. He never won the Cup. He never achieved any real stardom outside of Philadelphia and hard core hockey fans. He never lived up to his hype.
AND... The ONLY time ANYONE EVER talks about him is when they talk about the Quebec thing and his not wanting to play there.
Lindros is a footnote.
Yup.
He sure showed them.
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Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
Sundin put up 100something points in that season and was already partway out the door, which is what I mentioned before. Ricci and Duchene put up a combined 160 points that season. That more than accounts for a 50 point improvement.
This is starting to get off topic presented in the OP.
- Jan 22, 2007
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I know a little bit about Lindros as a close friend of mine worked for the Flyers from the 80s through the late 90s. He knew Lindros very well. I will say this...
The Lindros family were good people--they just knew they had leverage at every level and they exercised it to protect their son. The Soo had to do with distance--the family was very concerned about Eric being exploited. Quebec was 100% about ownership. Lindros was willing to go to NY, Philly, Chicago, Montreal, etc. In fact, Montreal was one of Eric's personal favorite cities.
Even in Philly, the Lindros family was very hands-on. Bonnie would often come into the locker room after games, which made some of the players uncomfortable. The family was also overly-protective of Eric and questioned the Flyers medical staff on multiple occasions. Carl also kept asking Clarke to trade for Mike Peca because he didn't like how he was a thorn in Eric's side--this drove Clarke nuts. We know how it turned out in Philly, but I was told that Eric was a GREAT person. He was kind and generous with the Flyers support staff. After the season he would tip the training staff a big amount. He was generally quiet and didn't party much in Philly. After practices he would go to his favorite restaurant in NJ and get two large salads with chicken. After the home games he would pop into Bullies bar, have one drink and leave a $100 bill on the bar for everyone else to drink from.
My friend has been in contact with Lindros over the recent years and said he even forgave Clarke for everything. But it was Paul Holmgren who smoothed everything over. Supposedly Carl is still a little salty but Eric is over it completely.
This sounds crazy but I feel bad for Lindros. He is probably the biggest "what if" in NHL history. He still made it to the Hall, which is a testament to how dominant he could have been had it all worked out.
As for this interview with Lindros--I believe everything 100% because it sounds like the person I was told he was. He never had an issue with the Nordiques fans, Quebec City or anything like that--his family despised the owner. It wasn't even a financial thing--as it was portrayed in the media--Eric lived off his Score trading card endorsement for years and donated millions to a hospital for head trauma research. He is a generous, level-headed man--not some money hungry scrooge.
The Lindros family were good people--they just knew they had leverage at every level and they exercised it to protect their son. The Soo had to do with distance--the family was very concerned about Eric being exploited. Quebec was 100% about ownership. Lindros was willing to go to NY, Philly, Chicago, Montreal, etc. In fact, Montreal was one of Eric's personal favorite cities.
Even in Philly, the Lindros family was very hands-on. Bonnie would often come into the locker room after games, which made some of the players uncomfortable. The family was also overly-protective of Eric and questioned the Flyers medical staff on multiple occasions. Carl also kept asking Clarke to trade for Mike Peca because he didn't like how he was a thorn in Eric's side--this drove Clarke nuts. We know how it turned out in Philly, but I was told that Eric was a GREAT person. He was kind and generous with the Flyers support staff. After the season he would tip the training staff a big amount. He was generally quiet and didn't party much in Philly. After practices he would go to his favorite restaurant in NJ and get two large salads with chicken. After the home games he would pop into Bullies bar, have one drink and leave a $100 bill on the bar for everyone else to drink from.
My friend has been in contact with Lindros over the recent years and said he even forgave Clarke for everything. But it was Paul Holmgren who smoothed everything over. Supposedly Carl is still a little salty but Eric is over it completely.
This sounds crazy but I feel bad for Lindros. He is probably the biggest "what if" in NHL history. He still made it to the Hall, which is a testament to how dominant he could have been had it all worked out.
As for this interview with Lindros--I believe everything 100% because it sounds like the person I was told he was. He never had an issue with the Nordiques fans, Quebec City or anything like that--his family despised the owner. It wasn't even a financial thing--as it was portrayed in the media--Eric lived off his Score trading card endorsement for years and donated millions to a hospital for head trauma research. He is a generous, level-headed man--not some money hungry scrooge.
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MXD
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- Oct 27, 2005
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And Kerry Huffman. And Ron Hextall basically replacing Jacques Cloutier and relegating Stephane Fiset to backup duties. That simple switch is possibly, like, a 15 goals allowed.
Better depth (Rucinsky and Kovalenko, amongst others) and playing the Ottawa Senators also helped.
MadLuke
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2011
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A so good of a prospect that the league and teams would roll over to please him like the other league before did and he was obviously right to think he was that, has they did.
- Jan 22, 2007
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The Nords were about to take another step as it was. Sundin was entering his prime, Sakic was a beast, Nolan was emerging and some of the kids were ready. But, to your point, Huffman, Hexy and Ricci did help a lot. Ricci was a great fit on that young Nords club and played in many situations. Hextall was an improvement between the pipes for sure. Even Chris Simon was a contributor, and a budding pugilist during a time they could still impact a game.
I have to be honest I kind of like it when a player has that kind of leverage and throws a monkey wrench into the owners little monopoly. I know they are well paid but what other industry allows the best performer in their field to be owned for 7-10 years? (I don’t remember the CBA in 1991.) I mean that is the meaningful career for most players. I think it was too bad how it worked out for his sake, his parents and the bar incident with the pic in handcuffs certainly didn’t help his narrative and fed the story he was a spoiled brat. I am not plugged in like Boxscore, but I have heard very similar stories from a friend who worked for an NHL team in the 90’s. ( Not the flyers though so the stories are second hand) I like the fact he had the owners wringing their hand in 91.
vadim sharifijanov
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- Oct 10, 2007
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if there's no lindros trade this could have been quebec's roster in the middle of the 90s—
deadmarsh lindros nolan
kamensky sakic young
rucinsky sundin kovalenko
lapointe/yelle/gelinas/corbet/ringers
foote gusarov
lefebvre leschyshyn
wolanin/klemm/laukkanen
fiset
snow
plenty of extra talent up front to trade for help on the back end and in goal.
deadmarsh lindros nolan
kamensky sakic young
rucinsky sundin kovalenko
lapointe/yelle/gelinas/corbet/ringers
foote gusarov
lefebvre leschyshyn
wolanin/klemm/laukkanen
fiset
snow
plenty of extra talent up front to trade for help on the back end and in goal.
MadLuke
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2011
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At least 2 little correction, Deadmarsh came from a pick they got trading Hextall I think.
Sylvain Lefebvre is from the Sundin trade.
- Jan 22, 2007
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Yes, the Nords would have been an emerging team regardless. And I think Lindros would have fared better in Quebec than he did in Philly. Let's not forget, the Flyers depleted their club in the deal and got lucky with the LeClair/Desjardins trade years later. With Sakic, Sundin and Nolan, Lindros wouldn't have had to carry the load himself.
I also wonder how the Flyers would have fared with keeping Ricci, Forsberg, Simon, Hextall, Huffman, Duchene, the 1st rounders and the millions in cash. Don't forget--this was pre-cap era and the Flyers had no problem throwing money around to free agents. They also had Renberg on his way over from Sweden and Yushkevich in the fold. They could have spent money on some UFA's and dealt those 1st rounders for decent win-now players--look at what the Rangers were able to do for their Cup run.
vadim sharifijanov
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- Oct 10, 2007
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ah you're right.
quebec's original draft pick that they swapped to move up to the deadmarsh pick was... todd bertuzzi. obviously no help in the short term, but if they make the right pick and bring him along correctly he lines up nicely with the second core of hejduk, drury, tanguay, assuming all of the same draft picks happen.
no lefebvre hurts. can we swap in uwe krupp? they traded down from the lindros pick to the belak pick to get krupp, but they had to throw in ron sutter, whom they got from the duchesne trade. but there must have been another way to do that same deal right?
On the subject of Lindros, here’s an interesting item from my collection, given to me a few years ago by a friend of mine @STLBlueshistory.
The book was from Ron Caron’s personal collection and was given to him by Eric Lindros himself back in 1992. Note the “help” at the end. According to Ron Caron’s nephew, Eric sent copies of his book out to numerous NHL GM’s and included the “help” note to teams that he wished to play for. Looks like Eric wouldn’t have minded being a Blue.
The book was from Ron Caron’s personal collection and was given to him by Eric Lindros himself back in 1992. Note the “help” at the end. According to Ron Caron’s nephew, Eric sent copies of his book out to numerous NHL GM’s and included the “help” note to teams that he wished to play for. Looks like Eric wouldn’t have minded being a Blue.
Really cool post and insights, thanks for sharing.
Lindros is definitely not the biggest "what if" though in NHL history. Nobody will ever top Orr and Lemieux. But he's a big one, sure.
- Jan 22, 2007
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You really think Orr and Lemieux are bigger "what ifs" than Lindros? Orr is regarded by some as the greatest player in hockey history--and definitely in a universal TOP-3 all-time. Mario is also regarded as one of the greatest--and the only offensive player who could rival Gretzky's dominance. Sure, IF he played a few more years and was healthy throughout he would have scored more--and maybe broke 215 one year--but I think his legacy is cemented.
Lindros won a Hart and had an elite PPG early on. Shortly after, the injuries and drama completely derailed and cut short his career. He managed to make it into the HHOF but it wasn't even a lock for him at one point. Oh, I think Lindros had much more of an incomplete career than Orr and Mario. We're talking about a man who COULD have been a Top 5-8 player in hockey history that right now is nowhere close.
BenchBrawl
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- Jul 26, 2010
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Marcel Aubut picking up a french fry in Mrs. Lindros' plate a day before the draft, to go along with his usual class act, probably didn't help Bonnie Lindros love the Nordiques organization.
This is from Réjean Tremblay.
Le temple de M. Lindros
"Lindros était un géant de six pieds et quatre pouces, mais il était terrorisé par madame. Et Aubut avait piqué une grosse frite dans l’assiette de Bonnie à Buffalo, la veille du repêchage, et elle le détestait."
According to Guy Lafleur, there's another anecdote where Aubut started thinking out loud in french to some friends, thinking Bonnie didn't understand french, and what he said was apparently unpleasant (which isn't hard to believe, knowing Aubut).
Lindros did come to the show TLMEP (Tout le monde en parle) in recent years and he put on the Nordiques Jersey.
It's obvious Aubut was a big problem, even if he wasn't the whole problem.
This is from Réjean Tremblay.
Le temple de M. Lindros
"Lindros était un géant de six pieds et quatre pouces, mais il était terrorisé par madame. Et Aubut avait piqué une grosse frite dans l’assiette de Bonnie à Buffalo, la veille du repêchage, et elle le détestait."
According to Guy Lafleur, there's another anecdote where Aubut started thinking out loud in french to some friends, thinking Bonnie didn't understand french, and what he said was apparently unpleasant (which isn't hard to believe, knowing Aubut).
Lindros did come to the show TLMEP (Tout le monde en parle) in recent years and he put on the Nordiques Jersey.
It's obvious Aubut was a big problem, even if he wasn't the whole problem.
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Thats a little iffy....
Do you really think that Colorado would have won the cup WITH him. They got a kings ransom in that trade and then dummied montreal on the Roy trade....
I dont think Lindros at any point was saying "Wow if I would have stayed I would have won...."
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