Liljegren and Sandin enter 9th Month of Fortnite training

[TheGoldenJet]

Satirical title aside, what’s up with the Leafs still not sending these two overseas? While Liljegren and Sandin will have gone 9 months without having played a single hockey game, many of the other 1st round pick defencemen from their 2017 and 2018 draft years are already playing hockey with their teams for the 2020-21 season:

Brannstrom, Valimaki, Bouchard, Vaakanainen, Johansson, Bernard-Docker, Nils Lundqvist, Alexeyev, all playing with their teams already, most with out-clauses in case the NHL season starts up soon. The Bruins just sent Vaakanainen last week when they found out the NHL/NHLPA negotiations had gone sour. I feel that Leafs management should have been more proactive and gotten both these guys some much needed development time on the ice by now.

Most of the 1st round D from these drafts that are not playing right now are either guaranteed 1st pairing guys (eg. Dahlin) or had good playoff runs in August/September, and therefore have no rust to shake off (eg. Heiskanen, Hughes, Makar). But Sandin and Liljegren don’t fit either of these categories and should be playing as soon as possible in my opinion.

Click to read more...

 

[Cor]

Liljegren was dealing with an injury heading into the play-ins. Possible he was/is still recovering.


Dubas already addressed the Sandin thing himself.

it’s possible that since the NHL is reneging on the deal, that things change and they get loaned. Who knows.

 

[Martin Skoula]

If Sandin comes in closer to Rielly's current playing weight, I don't mind that he didn't put up PPG in Sweden for a couple months.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Liljegren was dealing with an injury heading into the play-ins. Possible he was/is still recovering.

Doubt it. Siegel reported that Liljegren would’ve been playing in Alsvenskan already (like Bouchard is) if the Jan 1st start date gets pushed back any further. It now seems likely this will be the case, and Bruins management showed real initiative by acting last week, wish the Leafs had done the same.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Lebrun tweeting today that a player’s return to play committee source is saying that a target of Jan 20 - Feb 1st seems more realistic now.

If Seigel’s report was true, it would mean the Leafs are to loan Liljegren to play in Europe now since there will be no Jan 1st start date. I wonder why they are still dragging their feet?

Any extra games will help him and the AHL is starting Feb 5th at the absolute earliest (likely to get pushed back as well).

 

[Menzinger]

With the constant uncertainty for both border restrictions/quarantine + the camp start date still unknown i can see the potential hesitation.

Those are two guys the team likely wans to have a full camp for.

This type of decision in a covid world just isn't as straightforward as it would be during a "normal" offseason

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

I don't think Dubas has shown any sign that he wouldn't be doing what's best to prioritize the development of his players, Sandin and Liljegren being 2 very important pieces. It's not as clear as some may like to portray it that sending them to Europe will be much better than training in TO. Here's a rough schedule:

1) Send them to europe, quarantine for 2 weeks, no skating (It's now Dec. 15).
2) Did they catch COVID? How's their health now?
3) Spend 2wks torching a slower brand of hockey, on european sized ice surface, probably not learning much more. Does SHL even play over xmas holidays? We're talking like 8 games max, probably much less?
4) Bring them back to Canada, quarantine for 2 weeks, no skating (it's now Jan. 14)
5) Did they catch COVID? How's their health now?
6) Start training camp mid-January, hopefully there was more than 2wks notice from the league for camp starting (could be less as league compresses the timeframe). Otherwise they miss some of camp.

I just question whether or not NHL-level defensemen torching the SHL is all that great a learning experience. imo better they avoid a month of quarantine and are able to skate and stay fit.

It's pretty clear that Dubas only sent the prospects who don't have a chance to make the roster abroad, and I suspect there is good reason for that, informed by their sports science and player development teams.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I don't think Dubas has shown any sign that he wouldn't be doing what's best to prioritize the development of his players, Sandin and Liljegren being 2 very important pieces. It's not as clear as some may like to portray it that sending them to Europe will be much better than training in TO. Here's a rough schedule:

1) Send them to europe, quarantine for 2 weeks, no skating (It's now Dec. 15).
2) Did they catch COVID? How's their health now?
3) Spend 2wks torching a slower brand of hockey, on european sized ice surface, probably not learning much more. Does SHL even play over xmas holidays? We're talking like 8 games max, probably much less?
4) Bring them back to Canada, quarantine for 2 weeks, no skating (it's now Jan. 14)
5) Did they catch COVID? How's their health now?
6) Start training camp mid-January, hopefully there was more than 2wks notice from the league for camp starting (could be less as league compresses the timeframe). Otherwise they miss some of camp.

I just question whether or not NHL-level defensemen torching the SHL is all that great a learning experience. imo better they avoid a month of quarantine and are able to skate and stay fit.

It's pretty clear that Dubas only sent the prospects who don't have a chance to make the roster abroad, and I suspect there is good reason for that, informed by their sports science and player development teams.

Sweden does not have a mandatory quarantine law at the moment, so both guys, who are Swedish citizens, could literally fly over and play in Alsvenskan (the league specifically mentioned by Seigel) now with no quarantine delay. Coming back they’d be like any of the other guys flying back from Europe.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

With the constant uncertainty for both border restrictions/quarantine + the camp start date still unknown i can see the potential hesitation.

Those are two guys the team likely wans to have a full camp for.

This type of decision in a covid world just isn't as straightforward as it would be during a "normal" offseason

They can choose:

A) play pro hockey now
or
B) maybe, in a month or two, start camp

I agree there is an element of uncertainty. But to me the better choice is to fly them over to play in Europe now.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Liljegren should be sent to Sweden. Sandin is easily a 7th dman now.

 

[francis246]

The quarantine rules is probably what’s holding them back. What’s the point of sending them to Europe for two weeks. If training camp starts mid January, they will have to quarantine for 14 days. There is no point in sending them.

 

[francis246]

Sweden does not have a mandatory quarantine law at the moment, so both guys, who are Swedish citizens, could literally fly over and play in Alsvenskan (the league specifically mentioned by Seigel) now with no quarantine delay. Coming back they’d be like any of the other guys flying back from Europe.

It’s the 14 day quarantine upon returning to Canada that is the concern.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

If Sandin comes in closer to Rielly's current playing weight, I don't mind that he didn't put up PPG in Sweden for a couple months.

185 to 210 ? That would be some offseason.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

It’s the 14 day quarantine upon returning to Canada that is the concern.

It’s a reasonable argument, but all those other top picks playing in Europe right now don’t seem to mind. Two other issues I have with the argument:

Someone on here posted (a couple weeks ago) that Liljegren is training in Sweden. If true, there is no reason he shouldn’t be playing pro hockey over there, since he’ll have to quarantine either way. Secondly, the quarantine rules themselves may be changed to 10 days now, based on new CDC guidelines. All the more reason to play I feel.

 

[francis246]

It’s a reasonable argument, but all those other top picks playing in Europe right now don’t seem to mind. Two other issues I have with the argument:

Someone on here posted (a couple weeks ago) that Liljegren is training in Sweden. If true, there is no reason he shouldn’t be playing pro hockey over there, since he’ll have to quarantine either way. Secondly, the quarantine rules themselves may be changed to 10 days now, based on new CDC guidelines. All the more reason to play I feel.

I highly doubt Liljegren is in Sweden training. He’s probably in Toronto. And whether it’s 10 days or 14. It’s still too much time to even make that worth it. NHL is starting January 15th apparently. So it makes no sense for them to go now anyways. I get it, but a lot of the prospects over there have also not trained/practiced in a team atmosphere since March. Liljegren was in the bubble and taking part in practice. I don’t think there’s much he’s going to gain by playing 5 games over there at this point. The risk of injury is just not worth it. Given Covid as well, there will be a taxi squad so we need everyone available and healthy.

 

[Martin Skoula]

185 to 210 ? That would be some offseason.

9+ months to gain 15 pounds isn't unreasonable if that's been his focus since the shutdown. We've seen young players put on 10+ pounds in a normal offseason before.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I get that we all want to see these guys playing games, but I have to think the Leafs development staff knows a lot more about developing players in area's of need a lot more than the posters on this board.

I mean how many of us really knew Robertson was staying in Ontario living with Muzzin/ training at Mastercard center for 3 hour sessions until the article was posted about it?

None of us really know what the Leafs have Sandin and Liljegren working on, or who they are working on it with. As long as they come to camp in shape and ready to compete for spots that's all I care about.

It's not like they're just sitting at home on the couch eating cheeto's.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Liljegren should be sent to Sweden. Sandin is easily a 7th dman now.

He's 8th now and won't make roster so why not?
Lehtonen did not sign here to play for Marlies - he will be 7th
Sandin is 8th
Lily is 9th
Given both can be sent down and our top 6 can't be without losing them it should have been done da second Dermy resigned

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I highly doubt Liljegren is in Sweden training. He’s probably in Toronto. And whether it’s 10 days or 14. It’s still too much time to even make that worth it. NHL is starting January 15th apparently. So it makes no sense for them to go now anyways. I get it, but a lot of the prospects over there have also not trained/practiced in a team atmosphere since March. Liljegren was in the bubble and taking part in practice. I don’t think there’s much he’s going to gain by playing 5 games over there at this point. The risk of injury is just not worth it. Given Covid as well, there will be a taxi squad so we need everyone available and healthy.

Quarantine can be as short as 7 days now, with a negative test on day 5, per new CDC guidelines. He could still train during that time, just not with teammates in the ice. I think that is all the more reason to start playing some pro hockey now.

The new Jan 15th/16th dates only mean that the season won’t happen any earlier and that Jan 1st is out. It’s no guarantee. Basically just guarantees guys can play another 22 days in Europe now before flying back for a 7 day quarantine and then a 2 week camp. If that date gets moved again (owners/players still haven’t budged), it’s just more missed development time. All of this was easily foreseeable as soon as the escrow arguments surfaced.

Liljegren in particular only got a few practices in while in the bubble, he was injured after about one week of training and returned only a couple days before Leafs were eliminated. He could use the extra games and realistically first game on North American ice won’t be until Feb 5th at the earliest.

 

[Menzinger]

I get that we all want to see these guys playing games, but I have to think the Leafs development staff knows a lot more about developing players in area's of need a lot more than the posters on this board.

I mean how many of us really knew Robertson was staying in Ontario living with Muzzin/ training at Mastercard center for 3 hour sessions until the article was posted about it?

None of us really know what the Leafs have Sandin and Liljegren working on, or who they are working on it with. As long as they come to camp in shape and ready to compete for spots that's all I care about.

It's not like they're just sitting at home on the couch eating cheeto's.

Yeah, that's where I'd stand on the issue. I think the Leafs have a good player development system ao its not as if they're being left out of the loop.

And there's something to be said about them getting settled in the city + workout routine ect than having them jetset their lives after just a few weeks

 

[Kiwi]

Yeah, that's where I'd stand on the issue. I think the Leafs have a good player development system ao its not as if they're being left out of the loop.

And there's something to be said about them getting settled in the city + workout routine ect than having them jetset their lives after just a few weeks

I trust our development staff as well but I would like to see those guys getting some games under they're belts in reasonably short order

You can do a lot during an off-season to improve your game but there is no substitute for playing against opposition who want to make your life difficult and finding ways to be successful in spite of that

 

[francis246]

Quarantine can be as short as 7 days now, with a negative test on day 5, per new CDC guidelines. He could still train during that time, just not with teammates in the ice. I think that is all the more reason to start playing some pro hockey now.

The new Jan 15th/16th dates only mean that the season won’t happen any earlier and that Jan 1st is out. It’s no guarantee. Basically just guarantees guys can play another 22 days in Europe now before flying back for a 7 day quarantine and then a 2 week camp. If that date gets moved again (owners/players still haven’t budged), it’s just more missed development time. All of this was easily foreseeable as soon as the escrow arguments surfaced.

Liljegren in particular only got a few practices in while in the bubble, he was injured after about one week of training and returned only a couple days before Leafs were eliminated. He could use the extra games and realistically first game on North American ice won’t be until Feb 5th at the earliest.

too bad the CDC’s suggestions are guidelines and not law.

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Travel restrictions, exemptions and advice - Canada.ca

It is Canadian Law under emergency orders within the Quarantine Act that you quarantine 14 days upon arrival into Canada. And you can bet that they would be all over the Leafs and any other sports team to ensure that they are following that law. I’m not sure where you’re getting this 7 day quarantine thing from. Even the late additions for the World Juniors are quarantining for 14 days before joining the camp.

Based on that alone it makes it not worth it. Also 22 days is nothing. That’s literally 3-6 games in that time span. Not worth it and the hassle

 

[TheGoldenJet]

too bad the CDC’s suggestions are guidelines and not law.

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Travel restrictions, exemptions and advice - Canada.ca

It is Canadian Law under emergency orders within the Quarantine Act that you quarantine 14 days upon arrival into Canada. And you can bet that they would be all over the Leafs and any other sports team to ensure that they are following that law. I’m not sure where you’re getting this 7 day quarantine thing from. Even the late additions for the World Juniors are quarantining for 14 days before joining the camp.

Based on that alone it makes it not worth it. Also 22 days is nothing. That’s literally 3-6 games in that time span. Not worth it and the hassle

Typically with Covid, the CDC gives the recommendations, lawmakers follow suit in short order. Check the CDC’s site for the latest, their new recommendations are about 48 hours old so most countries have not had the chance to adjust yet. Idk where you’re getting 3 games from but I don’t know any teams that play 3 games in a 22 day span. Most teams play 6-10 games in that span.

Greg Wyshinski is now saying early February so your 22 days becomes 40 days and counting.

If it were up to me both guys would’ve been playing long ago, and the situation would have worked for the Leafs with increasing delays of the season start, rather than working against their top prospects.

 

[pylon17]

If Sandin comes in closer to Rielly's current playing weight, I don't mind that he didn't put up PPG in Sweden for a couple months.

Keith Tkachuk style.