Confirmed with Link: Lightning re-sign C Carter Verhaeghe | 1 year, $700K, two-way

[God King Fudge]

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[Master P]

Just keep these contracts coming. Please get Point done soon.

 

[Iceman]

Just keep these contracts coming. Please get Point done soon.

Yeah, at some point, the Point deal will be the only one left so JBB has to force himself to get it done eventually.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Welcome back, CV!

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Would imagine he is going to get a spot in Erne doesn't sign or the first injury.

 

[God King Fudge]

Martel and Verhaeghe are going to compete for the last wing spot opened up by Miller.

Palat-Stamkos-Gourde
Johnson-Point-Kuch
Killorn-Cirelli-Joseph
Erne-Paquette-Martel/Verhaeghe.

Simple as that. Verhaeghe should beat out Martel pretty easily for a spot, but Cooper is gonna Cooper, so who knows.

 

[Todd1a]

So if verhaeghe is not getting sent down then does Martel go on waivers? Because we need cap room for point ?

 

[HoseEmDown]

So if verhaeghe is not getting sent down then does Martel go on waivers? Because we need cap room for point ?

Why would either be sent down? I'm pretty sure 700k isn't the issue with a Point contract.

 

[God King Fudge]

I mean Martel is making 700k. That's not gonna do much for making room.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

So if verhaeghe is not getting sent down then does Martel go on waivers? Because we need cap room for point ?

At most we would be making some very short term moves based on Cally's LTIR. There's one approach where we go into day 1 of the season at just under the cap counting Cally's contract value, and another approach where we go in at just under the cap ignoring his contract value.

If we take the first approach, then yes we'll likely be sending some guys down on last day of camp to get the roster down to the 20-man minimum so we have the smallest cap hit possible (making the most room to pay Point/others) but then we'll bring them right back up on day 1 and start using the LTIR relief. And since it's just a point-in-time cap move, I bet we'll be sending down guys who don't have to pass through waivers and bring them right back up. So not Martel.

But what we're not going to do is put ourselves in the position where we can't afford a full 23-man roster for the bulk of the season because we don't have the cap space -- that's a recipe for disaster.

 

[Todd1a]

At most we would be making some very short term moves based on Cally's LTIR. There's one approach where we go into day 1 of the season at just under the cap counting Cally's contract value, and another approach where we go in at just under the cap ignoring his contract value.

If we take the first approach, then yes we'll likely be sending some guys down on last day of camp to get the roster down to the 20-man minimum so we have the smallest cap hit possible (making the most room to pay Point/others) but then we'll bring them right back up on day 1 and start using the LTIR relief. And since it's just a point-in-time cap move, I bet we'll be sending down guys who don't have to pass through waivers and bring them right back up. So not Martel.

But what we're not going to do is put ourselves in the position where we can't afford a full 23-man roster for the bulk of the season because we don't have the cap space -- that's a recipe for disaster.

If we are signing point for the long haul say 5 years or 8 years I don’t see anyway we will be under the salary cap of 81.5 at the end of training camp. I’d bet we will be over the cap before the season starts with Callahan’s ltir. But it’s also possible they trade the Callahan contract to another team looking to get to the cap floor if we throw in a sweetener.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

If we are signing point for the long haul say 5 years or 8 years I don’t see anyway we will be under the salary cap of 81.5 at the end of training camp. I’d bet we will be over the cap before the season starts with Callahan’s ltir. But it’s also possible they trade the Callahan contract to another team looking to get to the cap floor if we throw in a sweetener.

Its doable, but unpleasant. We currently have 21 guys on roster and $5.6m in free cap space per CapFriendly. That free cap number takes into account the full hit from Cally. The numbers really should be 22 and $4.9m counting Verhaeghe.

Let's say we sign Point for 5 years / $8.3m per. Counting Verhaeghe, that's $3.4m more than we currently have to spend, and puts us at the roster limit of 23 guys.

How do we free that up? Well, we can move 3 guys off the roster, since the minimum is 20. Who would that be? Domingue and his $1.15m hit for sure. Then if we trade Paquette ($1.65m) and send somebody down who doesn't have to pass through waivers (e.g. Cernak, $0.7m) we'd be just under. Once the season starts, we'd recall Cernak and two other guys from Syracuse to fill the roster.

The downside to that approach is that it costs us Paquette and Erne. (We wouldn't have enough to sign Erne for anything above league $800k).

So I don't like it, unless we can get Point to take a real discount. I'm guessing you're right and we just find a way to dump Cally's contract so we don't have to deal with this. If we don't trade Cally, the other approach is to be over and using LTIR on day 1, which has different rules/strategies and I've already made this post long enough.

 

[TampaBoltz]

I remember when Yzerman would send Sustr down after last pre-season game then bring him up when the season officially started. I can't remember if he was waiver-exempt at that time. But, I'm, confused on the LTIR rules. I know you can go 10% over before the season starts. That would make it easy to sign Point. I'm not sure if you have to be under the cap at the start of the season or if you can be 10% over then immediately use Callahan's LTIR at the start. If you have to be under at the start of the season, even for 1 day, I guess the only choices would be to have Point miss training camp and sign him the 1st day of the season. Or, trade Callahan's last year along with an asset. If insurance is paying most of his salary this year, it would be an easy way for a team to gain an asset(maybe 3rd round pick).

 

[BoltzManConstant]

I remember when Yzerman would send Sustr down after last pre-season game then bring him up when the season officially started. I can't remember if he was waiver-exempt at that time. But, I'm, confused on the LTIR rules. I know you can go 10% over before the season starts. That would make it easy to sign Point. I'm not sure if you have to be under the cap at the start of the season or if you can be 10% over then immediately use Callahan's LTIR at the start. If you have to be under at the start of the season, even for 1 day, I guess the only choices would be to have Point miss training camp and sign him the 1st day of the season. Or, trade Callahan's last year along with an asset. If insurance is paying most of his salary this year, it would be an easy way for a team to gain an asset(maybe 3rd round pick).

The 10% gives us the flexibility we need to get all the contracts done and things moved around, and have everybody in camp. So don't worry about the camp part. The LTIR is going to come into play when the calendar flips from last day of camp to first day of reg season, and the 10% cushion goes away.

**Sorry for dragging this off the topic of Verhaeghe; there's probably a better place to discuss this**

My understanding is there are two ways you can deal with the LTIR, one when your total cap hit (including LTIR guy's cap hit) is under the regular cap on first day of season, and one where it's over (but by no more than LTIR guy's cap hit) on first day of season.

In either case, LTIR will cause us to set up two separate, important cap numbers on last day of training camp/first day of reg season. One of these is an adjusted regular cap limit (which will end up equal to or lower than the normal cap limit of $81.5m for the season) and the other is our LTIR relief cap space* that we can dip into. These numbers, once set at the start of the season, will not change regardless of player movement (unless we take Cally off LTIR, which isn't gonna happen).

Here's how those adjusted regular cap limit and the LTIR relief numbers get set under the two different scenarios. If you go into the season:
a) under or exactly at the normal cap limit (where your cap hit is calculated including the injured contract), then your adjusted regular cap number equals the amount of cap you're using including the injured contract, and your LTIR relief space equals the injured guy's contract value.
b) over the the normal cap limit (where your cap hit is calculated including the injured contract), then your adjusted regular cap number equals the amount of cap you're using excluding the injured guy's contract, and your LTIR relief space equals the injured guy's contract value.

So b) gives us the flexibility to be over by up to Callahan's cap hit. But if we use that appoach, it leaves us nowhere to go during the season, because it means that no matter what our total cap hit value on day 1 is, we are automatically maxed out. For example, let's say we can't quite get to the point where we're under with Cally's hit, so we're just barely into option b) territory. For this example, let's use $76m in contracts without Cally, $81.8m with him, and regular cap is $81.5m. Our adjusted "normal" cap number gets dropped down to that $76m, and our LTIR relief is $5.8m, which is $81.8m of total space -- so we are completely maxed out. Of course, going into the season with those numbers would be foolish-- we could've added $5.5m to our rostered cap hit and ended up in exactly the same place. E.g., if instead we had $81.5m in contracts without Cally and $87.3m with him, we'd have an adjusted normal cap of $81.5m plus $5.8m in relief. Once again, we're maxed out, but presumably we have a better team because we're spending an extra $5.5m on salaries. So no matter what, if you use option b), you leave yourself nowhere to go during the season. The only way you can add salary in-season is by moving out equal salary first. There may be a way to game that, like if you sign a free agent who you know you'll be willing and able to trade away later. You would want to sign that guy to a contract that soaks up exactly as much room as you have available, so you're maxed on day 1 and then open up as much room as you can when you trade him. Might be some sort of rule against that, I don't know, and would probably be cleaner just to try to deal away Cally's contract.

*LTIR relief space is mostly like regular space, except not as good because you don't "bank" it during the season. "Banking" of regular cap space would be if you're under the cap by say, $1m at the start of the season, and you stay at that same level for, say, 60% of the season. At that point, you've banked 60% of that $1m, and you can spend it along with your prospective cap room on someone for just the fraction of the season remaining. So at that point, even though you had only been under by $1m from day one, you could go out and sign a guy whose annualized cap hit is $2.5m, because he's going to only earn $1m (= $2.5m * 40%) over the remainder of the season. LTIR doesn't bank, it's use-it-or-lose-it. So if you had $1m in unused space you'd only have the prospective $400k left once you're 60% into the season, meaning you can only sign a guy with a $1m annualized salary.
That's my understanding from reading CapFriendly and a couple articles, at least. Open to any/all corrections on stuff I got wrong.

 

[Todd1a]

So say at the trade deadline we want to add a player? So at the deadline can we trade Callahan when say he has 35 to 40 percent of his salary left to add the player and salary we want ?

 

[BoltzManConstant]

So say at the trade deadline we want to add a player? So at the deadline can we trade Callahan when say he has 35 to 40 percent of his salary left to add the player and salary we want ?

Good question. I would guess that we would shift from being maxed to having the "normal" amount of available space, using the normal cap and whatever the hit is from our full roster. But the sooner we move Cally the better, because until that point we won't be banking any unused space.