Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Samkow, Aug 17, 2017.
Is the same statue or another one??
Its the same one.
Yeah it's not Robert E Lee. Just a generic Confederate soldier before and after the war.
Glad to see that final hurdle towards moving it removed. Regardless how you feel I think outside a courthouse is definitely not the place for it.
I'm happy that more cities are looking at taking down Confederate statues, but at the same time I'm worried that this will cause more rallies with neo-Nazi/ white supremacist/ alt right protesters, with more counter protesters and cause more potential for violence.
It's going to a private cemetary where it makes more sense. It's not being destroyed. Putting something that controversial in front of what's supposed to be a neutral courthouse just sends the wrong message.
Will the holiday stay?
They should stay out of politics. Getting embroiled in racial controversies has not helped the NFL at all.
In George Orwell's novel, 1984, one of Orwellâ€™s characters warns of how â€œevery book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street and building has been renamed, every date has been altered.â€
â€œAnd that process is continuing day by day and minute by minute,â€ adds Orwellâ€™s character. â€œHistory has stopped.â€
It seems we are heading down that road...
No it doesn't. I don't see many Korean War statues in town squares (though, I guess we do have Hawkeye to remind us). Does that mean we don't recognize it as history?
What I try to do is encourage people to research Cultural hegemony and Marxist demoralization. Then they will have a better understanding of why the elite is pushing all this political correctness etc so hard.
I was already boycotting giving the NHL any money so nothing really changes for me.
Soon it may. Many of today's youth cannot tell you the difference between the Korean war or the Vietnam war. Simply knowing the name of something doesn't mean you actually understand what happened during that period in time.
Regardless of where the statues get moved to, it won't matter. Give it a little bit more time and someones jimmies will get rustled about the new place the statue was moved to and we will have this issue all over again.
I am surprised that the Tampa teams are involving themselves in this. It hasn't exactly been beneficial for sports teams to become involved in hotbed issues....
I disagree. There's a huge difference between putting this history in museums and having them in major metro intersections.
I can understand why the Lightning are involved. Vinik is trying to remake downtown in his image and attract the sort of people who aren't exactly enthused about Confederate monuments.
The Bucs have a lot of black athletes and fans so I guess that explains that.
The Rays? I don't know, but they were the first to speak out. They're on the St. Pete side of the bay which tends to skew more liberal so I guess it's good outreach in their case.
Also let's not kid ourselves about why this particular statue was placed there at least:
It certainly wasn't just to recognize a historical event.
I do agree with preserving history though. I don't think these monuments should be destroyed. They just need to be placed in the right context. How can you not feel some bias against you as a person of color entering the courthouse if you have to walk past a statue like that? It's the same thing with the folks wanting to put the Ten Commandments outside of courthouses as well.
Overall, I like this move. I do wish like the Rays, that they said something more about moving it.
As an aside I just find it weird that Americans pass over celebrating Columbus Day still.
I'm not really sure what the argument is here. Removal of the statues will cause people to forget the civil war? It will cause people to forget that half of the United States revolted because they wanted to own other human beings as property? Statues simply don't have that affect and really only serve to elevate those who they're made in the name of and what they fought for.
I can completely understand a team getting involved in something like this. This is a statue specifically dedicated in the idea that people of a different skin color are inferior. Especially for a sport like hockey that's heavily whitewashed already, supporting a cause like this helps to shed that and make the sport less of a upper middle class white sport. A sports, or at least a league, that welcomes everyone. It goes perfectly along with other initiatives like You Can Play.
First it was transgender washrooms now its old statues, whats next. Look a squirrel!!!!
I wish they all cared this much about fixing a political system that is clearly not for the people.
Maybe. I still stand by my original point though regarding recognizing history. Would Korean War Statues help with the lack of knowledge regarding the Korean War? Maybe, maybe not. But I can say this, with a lack of knowledge among the general population about historical events, it creates the opportunity for revisionist history to be written. That type of history is largely agenda driven and ridiculously inaccurate.
And Hoek, Vinik is more likely to turn off current fans than he is to attract new ones. No one is going to say "Wow, Vinik is a great guy for what he did. I am going to spend $100 to go to a sport that I know nothing about just to support him!"
For the record, I am not against the removal of the statues. I personally don't care if they are or aren't there. My worry, as with many things, is that it becomes a slippery slope.
Frankly, I don't think they are 1/10th as offensive as the confederate flag still being flown. The monuments, while offensive to some, have a level of importance. The confederate flag (even though it isn't the original stars and bars) is just flown out of pure racism. Tackle that first.
Good. Much respect for them for doing this.
Only if you have absolutely no friggin' clue what Orwell believed in, sure.
I really don't understand people who make this pass as a move by the so-called "elite".
I mean, if the "elite" is something so powerful... Join it?
Being Canadian I don't care much about them, and they don't affect me in the slightest, but I can definitely see the issue with them.
It's not about getting people to watch hockey. Vinik and his partners are investing $1 billion in developing real estate in downtown Tampa to attract companies and residents. He obviously doesn't want the city developing a bad reputation as a result.
I'm with you on the slippery slope. If they start talking about removing statues of the founders I'm off the bus.
Today's youth doesn't go around reading the dedication plaques on statues either, historical monuments are more or less decorations. However they should not be honoring disgusting human beings who lead armed insurrections against the United States government in the name of being able to own other human beings.
Idk if you could call it re-writing history. Most of the 'Lost Cause' narrative was developed after Reconstruction.
Ironically this can be seen as an issue of small government (call it "city's rights!"). Why force cities to have monuments glorifying things they don't want glorified? In North Carolina the state legislature has not allowed local governments to have autonomy in this issue and decide for themselves. If the people in Tampa Bay don't want it (I'd guess many there don't), then why have it?
Sell the statues and make some money for the city, or put them in a museum which puts them in the correct historical context. Apologies if this is too off-topic.
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