Lidstrom

[ER89]

Hey guys, I was watching the documentary on NHL's youtube channel- The Joe.

And as a leaf fan in his 20s I realized (well I knew but still) like wtf lol, we've never had the sheer talent that the wings had over the last couple decades.

So my question is this: when Lidstrom was playing did the fans appreciate him and truly felt he was perfect? Like was he actually just so good defensively that he barely made errors?

And my second question is: for those who got to watch all that talent (01-02 team particularly) what the heck was that like? Was there ever a doubt amongst fans that they wouldn't win the cup?

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[GMR]

Yes I knew he was special. Best player I saw during my time watching hockey. Rarely made mistakes. Rarely missed games. Everyone knew he would be irreplaceable upon retirement.

The 2002 team had a tough run through the playoffs. Almost lost the first round and Conference Finals. Had a tough first three games against Carolina in the Finals. People thought they'd be a lock to win the Cup, but it wasn't so easy.

 

[MBH]

Hey guys, I was watching the documentary on NHL's youtube channel- The Joe.

And as a leaf fan in his 20s I realized (well I knew but still) like wtf lol, we've never had the sheer talent that the wings had over the last couple decades.

So my question is this: when Lidstrom was playing did the fans appreciate him and truly felt he was perfect? Like was he actually just so good defensively that he barely made errors?

And my second question is: for those who got to watch all that talent (01-02 team particularly) what the heck was that like? Was there ever a doubt amongst fans that they wouldn't win the cup?

I think Lidstrom's peak was 99-00 to 02-03.
He was never "perfect." That's just bullshit.
But he had a claim to being the best player in the league during that four-year window. Not saying he absolutely was. Guys like Forsberg and others had their claim too.

 

[cjm502]

I think Lidstrom would have to be the most error free defenseman of all time, and he became more and more appreciated as his career went on. During his last few years all us fans were aware we were wittniessing a generational talent finishing his career on top and truly appreciated what we had. Dont get me wrong, I think he was certainly underappreciated for much of his career, but as it progressed everyone knew how special he was. If you havent yet, treat yourself to some compilations of defensive plays by Lidstrom on youtube. Those are the plays he made every single night, they dont call him The Perfect Human for nothing!

 

[ER89]

I think Lidstrom would have to be the most error free defenseman of all time, and he became more and more appreciated as his career went on. During his last few years all us fans were aware we were wittniessing a generational talent finishing his career on top and truly appreciated what we had. Dont get me wrong, I think he was certainly underappreciated for much of his career, but as it progressed everyone knew how special he was. If you havent yet, treat yourself to some compilations of defensive plays by Lidstrom on youtube. Those are the plays he made every single night, they dont call him The Perfect Human for nothing!

I'm going to have to it seems. Its insane have one 06 team could be so f***ing good and the other.... Well. When I go through that lineup on hockey db holy shit that third line could be the first line.

 

[19 for president]

96/97 was the coming out party I think for Wings fans. Watching him shut down the legion of doom and transform a almost out of the league Larry Murphy into a respectable top pair guy was amazing. It wasn't until after the early cup runs that he really started getting league attention.

Lids plays a game that you have to watch a lot of to really appreciate. Nothing about his game was really high light reel. He had a good shot, but not an Al Mac slapper. What made him special was that he rarely got his shot blocked. So between being accurate and getting pucks on net for guys like Homer/ Dino/ Franzen to deflect he got a lot of points. He was also elite in his ability to walk the line and read a play. He kept so many PPs alive with slick keep ins at the point. The guy didn't make Datsyuk like passes, but he consistently hit the tape for almost every breakout pass he made. He stick control/ poke checking was absolutely elite, but not something that will end up on Sports Center. The man broke up some many odd man rushes that way it was unreal.

Lids I think will always be somewhat underrated on the whole because unless you watched him 60+ games a season it is really hard to appreciate him. This will likely get worse with time, as those of us who watched most of his career become less vocal.

 

[Sadekuuro]

He was underrated in the 90s, even by hometown fans, but most everyone eventually realized they were seeing something special and the second half of his career was fully appreciated.

 

[Frk It]

So my question is this: when Lidstrom was playing did the fans appreciate him and truly felt he was perfect? Like was he actually just so good defensively that he barely made errors?

For me the answer is yes, 100%.

I don't know I will ever have as much confidence in a defenseman as I had with Lidstrom. I mean I can remember Crosby coming in 1 on 1 against him in the playoffs, and I would have 0 anxiety that Nick would just diffuse the situation and poke the puck away or limit a quality chance. And he always did. It was just what I expected. He was the most efficient/effective defenseman I have ever seen play. And he was every bit as good defensively as he was offensively, which is a rarity with defenseman now-a-days.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Hey guys, I was watching the documentary on NHL's youtube channel- The Joe.

And as a leaf fan in his 20s I realized (well I knew but still) like wtf lol, we've never had the sheer talent that the wings had over the last couple decades.

So my question is this: when Lidstrom was playing did the fans appreciate him and truly felt he was perfect? Like was he actually just so good defensively that he barely made errors?

And my second question is: for those who got to watch all that talent (01-02 team particularly) what the heck was that like? Was there ever a doubt amongst fans that they wouldn't win the cup?

Yeah I appreciated the hell out of Lidstrom. Was he actually perfect? Of course not. No one actually makes the perfect play every time. If he was perfect, he'd have found a way to outscore Gretzky, and would have nearly 0 career GA. Lidstrom got beat and scored on just like every defenseman in the NHL... but it did happen uniquely rarely. He just had that heir about him that he knew what everyone on the ice was going to do and just the right way to make it go the way he wanted. This will never be a popular opinion because people love the hell out of Bobby Orr (and admittedly I can only look back on his career having not been alive when he played), but Lidstrom is the best defenseman ever. I think the NHL's need for a defenseman to be well-established cost Lidstrom 4-5 Norris trophies early in his career. Sure he picked up another couple at the end that maybe he didn't deserve because of the same effect... but for my money from about the 1995-96 season until 2011 he was the best D in the league every season besides a couple where Pronger went nuts. He genuinely should have had 10-15 Norris trophies IMO but it took a long time for the voters to catch on that he was just better than everyone else because of how quiet his game was. He wasn't laying people out or ripping booming slapshots so it took the rest of the league a minute to realize "hmm this guy almost never gets beat." I mean the guy had a 20 year career and never missed the playoffs. A lot of that has to do with the supporting cast he had, but you can't overstate how much of it was because of Lidstrom.

Oh there was totally doubt that we'd win. To be honest I didn't enjoy those years as much as I should have looking back. The Red Wings from 1995-2005 had the cursed best team vibe. The cup felt like it was ours to lose, but that we would indeed eventually find a way to lose it. Having so much talent just made it feel unfair when a way less talented roster had a goalie go nuts for 6 games and bounce us in the playoffs. I was always more nervous that something like that would happen than excited that this was a year we should win it all. So while it did feel like we should win, that we were clearly the most talented team in the league, I don't think there's been a fan base more aware that the Stanley Cup winner is usually not the best team than fans of those late 90s early 2000s Wings. The team that wins the cup is good enough to compete in every playoff game and gets the bounces they need. Luckily the '02 team had those bounces so they can live on in history but with a bit of bad luck they'd be another iteration in our many disappointing upsets. I always felt like the hockey gods would find some way to stop us until Yzerman actually had the damn thing in his hands.

 

[Frk It]

He was never "perfect." That's just bullshit.

 

[HisNoodliness]

For me the answer is yes, 100%.

I don't know I will ever have as much confidence in a defenseman as I had with Lidstrom. I mean I can remember Crosby coming in 1 on 1 against him in the playoffs, and I would have absolutely 0 anxiety that Nick would just diffuse the situation and poke the puck away or limit a quality chance. And he always did. It was just what I expected. He was the most efficient/effective defenseman I have ever seen play. And he was every bit as good defensively as he was offensively, which is a rarity with defenseman now-a-days.

My favorite hockey experience may be realizing that it's Lidstrom defending a two on one. At first you're panicking "oh god, Sakic and Forsberg are coming in on a two on one, we're toast. Oh wait it's Lids. Whew. We're good. At best they'll get a shot from the outside"

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

96/97 was the coming out party I think for Wings fans. Watching him shut down the legion of doom and transform a almost out of the league Larry Murphy into a respectable top pair guy was amazing. It wasn't until after the early cup runs that he really started getting league attention.

Lids plays a game that you have to watch a lot of to really appreciate. Nothing about his game was really high light reel. He had a good shot, but not an Al Mac slapper. What made him special was that he rarely got his shot blocked. So between being accurate and getting pucks on net for guys like Homer/ Dino/ Franzen to deflect he got a lot of points. He was also elite in his ability to walk the line and read a play. He kept so many PPs alive with slick keep ins at the point. The guy didn't make Datsyuk like passes, but he consistently hit the tape for almost every breakout pass he made. He stick control/ poke checking was absolutely elite, but not something that will end up on Sports Center. The man broke up some many odd man rushes that way it was unreal.

Lids I think will always be somewhat underrated on the whole because unless you watched him 60+ games a season it is really hard to appreciate him. This will likely get worse with time, as those of us who watched most of his career become less vocal.

I wholeheartedly agree.

People now talk about his lack of Norris wins early in his career to say he wasn't nearly as great then. His game obviously improved with experience but that narrative ignores that his game simply wasn't flashy so didn't get a ton of attention. It took a while for them to notice a quiet Swedish defenseman who didn't have highlight reel hits or make end to end runs like Paul Coffey.

One of the simplest ways to describe watching being a fan during the Lidstrom years is when the other team would have a 1 on 1 and then with a sense of relief you'd realize Lidstrom was the d-man back.

The team was loaded with talent in the late 90s and early aughts, but it's hard to overstate the impact of having Lidstrom on the ice for nearly half of every game. Whoever he was paired with usually ended up having career years.

 

[FabricDetails]

I vaguely remember in his early years fans of 80s/early 90s play referring to him as "Dickless Lidstrom". He really wasn't for everybody I guess is what I'd say but winning a lot helps.

 

[MBH]

Sorry. Continue to have infantile fantasies.

 

[Frk It]

Sorry. Continue to have infantile fantasies.

I was poking fun, FWIW.

But come on... he was the #1 defenseman on how many playoff and championship team and played how many minutes in the process?

It’s almost like maybe he was given that role and his teams had so much success because of the exceptionally low number of mistakes he made.

 

[MBH]

I was poking fun, FWIW.

But come on... he was the #1 defenseman on how many playoff and championship team and played how many minutes in the process?

It’s almost like maybe he was given that role and his teams had so much success because of the exceptionally low number of mistakes he made.

Lidstrom was a beast.
I don't know who it was up thread who said he didn't shoot like Macinnis. But there weren't many better point shots in the world, not to mention the silky passes and all-world defense.

 

[Bench]

I was poking fun, FWIW.

Screw that crusty dinosaur, grab your Lidstrom sweater, Chewbacca mask and meet me in the tree boat.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I vaguely remember in his early years fans of 80s/early 90s play referring to him as "Dickless Lidstrom". He really wasn't for everybody I guess is what I'd say but winning a lot helps.

That wouldn't surprise me.

What's funny is the late 90s Wings were considered pretty soft at that time. And a European defenseman who's not physical wasn't exactly embraced.

 

[Oddbob]

He controlled the game in both ends unlike almost everyone else I have ever seen. Early in his career he wasn't as appreciated outside Detroit because he didn't play a physical game, but his smarts in both ends was better than virtually anyone else. In my opinion only Bourque was with or better than Nicklas Lidstrom during their 2 careers.

Also as you alluded to @ER89 , he was virtually mistake free as he had such a calm with the puck which is why he was so good. He also could play 25-35 minutes a night and still be playing well in the end minutes of a game.

As to the 2002 team, I wasn't that confident as maybe many were, because there was so little ice time for the good players, and that can sometimes bring the level of play for some down, having to adjust to smaller roles. Also, Hasek despite having decent regular season numbers and great playoff numbers was less than great that year. He was not the dominator to me that season as he had many really easy nights of 18-22 shots against and low chances and he let in some awfully soft goals, especially when talking about a Vezina level goalie.

That said it was a lot of fun to be a Wings fan from 1997-2010, as we were always in the mix. These last 4 seasons though have been the absolute opposite of that.

 

[Oddbob]

96/97 was the coming out party I think for Wings fans. Watching him shut down the legion of doom and transform a almost out of the league Larry Murphy into a respectable top pair guy was amazing. It wasn't until after the early cup runs that he really started getting league attention.

Lids plays a game that you have to watch a lot of to really appreciate. Nothing about his game was really high light reel. He had a good shot, but not an Al Mac slapper. What made him special was that he rarely got his shot blocked. So between being accurate and getting pucks on net for guys like Homer/ Dino/ Franzen to deflect he got a lot of points. He was also elite in his ability to walk the line and read a play. He kept so many PPs alive with slick keep ins at the point. The guy didn't make Datsyuk like passes, but he consistently hit the tape for almost every breakout pass he made. He stick control/ poke checking was absolutely elite, but not something that will end up on Sports Center. The man broke up some many odd man rushes that way it was unreal.

Lids I think will always be somewhat underrated on the whole because unless you watched him 60+ games a season it is really hard to appreciate him. This will likely get worse with time, as those of us who watched most of his career become less vocal.

This was also why a lot of people thought Datsyuk wasn't that great, as they never watched more than highlights.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

I think Lidstrom's peak was 99-00 to 02-03.
He was never "perfect." That's just bullshit.
But he had a claim to being the best player in the league during that four-year window. Not saying he absolutely was. Guys like Forsberg and others had their claim too.

Nomination for stupidest post of the year

Holy shit! So he wasn't actually perfect? So all this time it was a figurative exaggeration of a player who was just excellent at what he did and was rarely known to make foolish mistakes? My god, whoever started peddling that bullshit needs to be taken out back and horse whipped!

No shit! No one is perfect. Of all the stupid things to rail against, saying Lidstrom's perfection is bullshit is about the dumbest. Do you not get nuance and hyperbole?

Anyone who has ever described Lidstrom as perfect needs to print a massive retraction, issue a formal apology and then take themselves out back with a horse whip.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Well, Lidstrom was backseat a little bit in that series against the Flyers and that whole run. Konstantinov was the big name. He was the bruiser, the dirty dog, and the guy everyone looked forward to seeing take on the Legion of Doom. It wasn't a slight on Lidstrom so much... but man, on the 96-97 team, you still had Stevie Y, you still had the entire Russian Five and Konstantinov was out there throwing the hits that Kronwall would later throw... but on bigger and tougher dudes... while also being almost inhumanely good in being on the ice when his team scored and the other team did not score.

Lidstrom in 96-97 would have been at best the 5th guy on the Wings you would have been worrying about (Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Konstantinov, X), which isn't a slam on him as much as an indicator of how damn loaded those teams were.

I think Lidstrom's peak was 99-00 to 02-03.
He was never "perfect." That's just bullshit.
But he had a claim to being the best player in the league during that four-year window. Not saying he absolutely was. Guys like Forsberg and others had their claim too.

Perfect? No. But you'd be hard pressed to find a guy who more often made the correct, safe play without fail and while not being a hulking monster not get battered around and miss a bunch of time.

 

[14ari13]

Hey guys, I was watching the documentary on NHL's youtube channel- The Joe.

And as a leaf fan in his 20s I realized (well I knew but still) like wtf lol, we've never had the sheer talent that the wings had over the last couple decades.

So my question is this: when Lidstrom was playing did the fans appreciate him and truly felt he was perfect? Like was he actually just so good defensively that he barely made errors?

And my second question is: for those who got to watch all that talent (01-02 team particularly) what the heck was that like? Was there ever a doubt amongst fans that they wouldn't win the cup?

Lidstrom was underappreciated for a long time in the NHL, but even more and longer in his homeland. As others said nothing spectacular or fleshy in his game. Datsyuk had more highlights in one game than lidstrom his whole career. But the numbers speak for themselves.
I think he has one highlight where he fakes a shot then pulls it between the opponents legs and then scores, I believe it was vs pens.

I think I saw him get really bad undressed once. Forsberg did it in 95 or 96.


Wings 02.
I think it was the biggest run in history of hockey. It was veni vidi vici, not like Pitbulls veni vici vidi, lol if you know what I mean.
The pressure was huge on them, but it went from worse to worser when we lost 1st 2 games on home ice. Bertuzzi almost singlehandedly knocked them out of the playoffs. He was a monster that year. But Yzerman came out determined and decided there is no way we lose this series. Lindstrom followed him and scored the biggest goal of the run in game 3.

Round 2 was piece of cake.

Round 3 was what everyone was expecting, the clash of titans.
In 1st 5 games Avs scored 1st in each of them, the wings went on the road for game 6 being down 3-2. The wings again came out like possessed. They were determined they won't lose. I think there was a girl, wings fan, in the standings with a sign "see you in game 7". The avs had no chance, they were destroyed by the wings physical play. Hasek closed the door and made the save which only he could make, typically him which defied the laws of physics. I still don't know if he did it with his helmet or his shoulder.
Game 7, 7-0.

Round 4
Tougher than we thought it would be, but boring like hell, specifically after the Avs series.
The special moment was when Fischer crosschecked a player in the face. He did not even got a penalty despite it was just behind Hasek. Nobody saw it. Not the refs, but not the players on the ice or on the bench so intense it was.

I think the wings actually lost 5 in a row in the regular season , but the wings could easily set the record for most wins.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

That wouldn't surprise me.

What's funny is the late 90s Wings were considered pretty soft at that time. And a European defenseman who's not physical wasn't exactly embraced.

I mean, outside of Shanahan, McCarty, Konstantinov, and a couple of the bottom pairing guys like Rouse, Ramsey, and Chelios when we traded for him... the Wings were kind of soft in terms of playing an aggressive physical game. They had a bunch of guys who were incredibly tough in terms of taking punishment and continuing to play hard, but there were not an overly physical roster. It's the same thing like the mid 2000s team. They didn't have a ton in the way of physically imposing, pound you into submission types... just guys who had f***ing redwoods for legs that you couldn't knock off the puck. That's why Lidstrom was so good. He wasn't physically imposing at all and never really went around throwing body checks, but my god did he never skip leg day. It's why Zetterberg and Datsyuk were overlooked so much in their drafts because they were small in stature (Zetterberg) and just overall damn weird in build, personality, and whatnot (Datsyuk)... but Z built his strength so you just couldn't move him and Datsyuk's weird proportions and ludicrous edgework made it near impossible to land anything more than a glancing blow on him.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Lidstrom was underappreciated for a long time in the NHL, but even more and longer in his homeland. As others said nothing spectacular or fleshy in his game. Datsyuk had more highlights in one game than lidstrom his whole career. But the numbers speak for themselves.
I think he has one highlight where he fakes a shot then pulls it between the opponents legs and then scores, I believe it was vs pens.

I think I saw him get really bad undressed once. Forsberg did it in 95 or 96.


Wings 02.
I think it was the biggest run in history of hockey. It was veni vidi vici, not like Pitbulls veni vici vidi, lol if you know what I mean.
The pressure was huge on them, but it went from worse to worser when we lost 1st 2 games on home ice. Bertuzzi almost singlehandedly knocked them out of the playoffs. He was a monster that year. But Yzerman came out determined and decided there is no way we lose this series. Lindstrom followed him and scored the biggest goal of the run in game 3.

Round 2 was piece of cake.

Round 3 was what everyone was expecting, the clash of titans.
In 1st 5 games Avs scored 1st in each of them, the wings went on the road for game 6 being down 3-2. The wings again came out like possessed. They were determined they won't lose. I think there was a girl, wings fan, in the standings with a sign "see you in game 7". The avs had no chance, they were destroyed by the wings physical play. Hasek closed the door and made the save which only he could make, typically him which defied the laws of physics. I still don't know if he did it with his helmet or his shoulder.
Game 7, 7-0.

Round 4
Tougher than we thought it would be, but boring like hell, specifically after the Avs series.
The special moment was when Fischer crosschecked a player in the face. He did not even got a penalty despite it was just behind Hasek. Nobody saw it. Not the refs, but not the players on the ice or on the bench so intense it was.

I think the wings actually lost 5 in a row in the regular season , but the wings could easily set the record for most wins.

I think you're actually underselling Yzerman in the Canucks series. Yzerman was literally playing on one good leg. He played in the Olympics and missed 30 games leading up to the 01-02 playoffs. He then played in each of the games and multiple times you saw him using his stick to stand back up while massively grimacing. When he walked to the rink and off the plane and what not, you'd see him limping terribly. He responded by, as the captain and one of the leading scorers and most important offensive players on the roster, dropping down to block shots, take hits, do whatever was needed for winning time. He held a closed door meeting after game 2 when the wheels could have come off and literally dragged the corpse of the Wings back into the series. His knees were so f***ed up after the run he got an osteotomy and a couple other surgeries and missed 66 games of 02-03. Yzerman literally put the Red Wings on his f***ing back doe.

ESPN.com - NHL 2002 Stanley Cup Championship - On his last leg, Yzerman still leads