Recalled/Assigned: Lias Andersson - Part III (Loaned to SHL)

[eco's bones]

Winning a spot and keeping it are two different things. He should realize that after his first two years. Lias looked pretty good in training camp but once the season started not so much.

I'm pretty much to the point though where I think it will be nice when we've moved on from this. What he said in the interview is so vague. If you have something to say....be clear and come out with it. I don't want to talk about his issues like he's a character in some kind of soap opera. If he's frustrated---I'm kind of there too. Rangers shouldn't rush a deal just for the sake of it even so but what I've seen he's not going to become a top 6 player for any team other than maybe the weakest teams in the league. His upside is somebody like Namestnikov but even to reach that he's going to have to keep his skating up.

 

[Ola]

Eco- Yeah and a lot is lost in translation and along the way to.

It is very clear that the comment on winning a spot is made in relation to if his NHL career is over or not, and not a complain in any way or form on that he won a spot but then didn’t get it.

Apparently that has been missed/lost along the way.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Just for the record, this isn’t the case. He is asked if he wants to return to the NHL for another team and answer that he still believes he has that ability, he won a center spot behind Ziba out of camp etc.

If he feels he won a spot behind Zibs, then he's complaining about Howden. Whether he says it directly or not, that's what he's implying.

Why you're white knighting for this loser is beyond me.

 

[Ola]

If he feels he won a spot behind Zibs, then he's complaining about Howden. Whether he says it directly or not, that's what he's implying.

Why you're white knighting for this loser is beyond me.

I know this is semantics and I am not saying that it changes a ton of things, but he quite clearly say that he managed to 'grab one of the center positions behind Ziba after the camp'. That is one of three, and I think it reflects the way things were during camp when we had openings at more or less 3 center positions behind Ziba.

And the context is very clear, its on a question that is like "what now?" And the answer is that he hasn't given up on the NHL and he notes that he de facto won a spot for a NHL team out of a camp, if he did it once he could potentially do it again, in that perspective. Its really not at all about him winning a spot at one point and then unfairly losing it. Just for the record.

This is what he says. Reality can certainly be different, but I don't think his comments are unclear in that regard. His comments are quite clear. (1) He didn't leave because he was demoted or didn't get playing time, (2) he did leave because there were several incidents that made him really unsettled, (3) he hasn't given up on the NHL and think that he could become a NHL player, notes that he have managed to win a spot once and believes that he could do it again.

Do we have to believe the above? Certainly not. But I just want to point that out because the part were he notes that he de facto won a spot out of camp have been taken out of context and put into the perspective that its said as a statement in which he implies that he is unhappy about winning a spot fairly then unfairly losing it. That was just not the case.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I know this is semantics and I am not saying that it changes a ton of things, but he quite clearly say that he managed to 'grab one of the center positions behind Ziba after the camp'. That is one of three, and I think it reflects the way things were during camp when we had openings at more or less 3 center positions behind Ziba.

And the context is very clear, its on a question that is like "what now?" And the answer is that he hasn't given up on the NHL and he notes that he de facto won a spot for a NHL team out of a camp, if he did it once he could potentially do it again, in that perspective. Its really not at all about him winning a spot at one point and then unfairly losing it. Just for the record.

This is what he says. Reality can certainly be different, but I don't think his comments are unclear in that regard. His comments are quite clear. (1) He didn't leave because he was demoted or didn't get playing time, (2) he did leave because there were several incidents that made him really unsettled, (3) he hasn't given up on the NHL and think that he could become a NHL player, notes that he have managed to win a spot once and believes that he could do it again.

Do we have to believe the above? Certainly not. But I just want to point that out because the part were he notes that he de facto won a spot out of camp have been taken out of context and put into the perspective that its said as a statement in which he implies that he is unhappy about winning a spot fairly then unfairly losing it. That was just not the case.

If that is the more honest translation, then what he said is much less inflammatory than the literal translation.

I'll take your interpretation as being what he meant to say. It jives much more with what is reasonable, given what information we have; even if his actions aren't doing that yet.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I know this is semantics and I am not saying that it changes a ton of things, but he quite clearly say that he managed to 'grab one of the center positions behind Ziba after the camp'. That is one of three, and I think it reflects the way things were during camp when we had openings at more or less 3 center positions behind Ziba.

And the context is very clear, its on a question that is like "what now?" And the answer is that he hasn't given up on the NHL and he notes that he de facto won a spot for a NHL team out of a camp, if he did it once he could potentially do it again, in that perspective. Its really not at all about him winning a spot at one point and then unfairly losing it. Just for the record.

This is what he says. Reality can certainly be different, but I don't think his comments are unclear in that regard. His comments are quite clear. (1) He didn't leave because he was demoted or didn't get playing time, (2) he did leave because there were several incidents that made him really unsettled, (3) he hasn't given up on the NHL and think that he could become a NHL player, notes that he have managed to win a spot once and believes that he could do it again.

Do we have to believe the above? Certainly not. But I just want to point that out because the part were he notes that he de facto won a spot out of camp have been taken out of context and put into the perspective that its said as a statement in which he implies that he is unhappy about winning a spot fairly then unfairly losing it. That was just not the case.

It's not really semantics. If he's saying that, he clearly says he should've been above Howden. I guess he's classy enough to not name Howden, but what he's saying is unambiguous. He's not talking about grabbing the 4th line center spot.

Maybe he should speak the f*** up about these "incidents". The continuous "you'll find out one day!" click-bait bullshit from him is tiring. And the fact he won't talk to JD is pathetic. His agent has given JD nothing to work with since Lias has given his agent nothing to work with. He's his own worst enemy and, frankly, his agent should drop him and wish him well on his own. Why his agent is even putting up with this is beyond me.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

He seems quite content with idea that a good preseason outweighs a lackluster regular seasons where he was largely invisible.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

He seems quite content with idea that a good preseason outweighs a lackluster regular seasons where he was largely invisible.

I will say this though. Howden never had to fight for a spot. I said this before a few weeks ago but the pre-season roster is divided into 4 groups basically

Group A: The sure-fire starters who play 1 or 2 games and make the team
Group B: The fringe players who play 3-6 games and make the team out of camp
Group C: The fringe players who play 3-6 games and don't make it
Group D: Filler. Prospects given a look, or AHL fodder never having a chance to make it

Howden played 2 pre-season games and made the team. Others who played 2 games and made the team? Kreider, Panarin, Zibanejad, Skjei, Trouba etc.

Both Lias and Howden were fringe players based on last season's performance. Neither really solidified a spot on the team in the 2-18-19 regular season. But Lias did have a better pre-season. And everyone kept saying "It has only been 3 games" etc. We could never bring it up because "It's still early in the season". Then, from one moment to the next, that changed to "stop beating a dead horse. We've discussed this at length" yet there was never really a time where the concerns were legitimately shared.

If Lias thought he was ahead of Howden based on a stronger pre-season, I can understand that. If the pre-season "doesn't count", I have a hard time explaining why it was reason enough to send Chytil down based on that same pre-season though.

At the end of the day, there's no real reason to go over this again since things have escalated to the point where he's no longer playing but when you mention Lias' lackluster regular season performance, I think it would be fair to point out that Howden wasn't any better in those same games. In the 2019-20 season, Lias was the only forward to never get a shot with different linemates or a different line. Whatever the reason behind it, Quinn never gave him a shot. We will never find out, but what didn't help Quinn in all this (and Howden to a degree) is the comment Quinn made later on where he said he gives Howden a longer leash because he has good intentions.

 

[Ola]

It's not really semantics. If he's saying that, he clearly says he should've been above Howden. I guess he's classy enough to not name Howden, but what he's saying is unambiguous. He's not talking about grabbing the 4th line center spot.

Maybe he should speak the **** up about these "incidents". The continuous "you'll find out one day!" click-bait bull**** from him is tiring. And the fact he won't talk to JD is pathetic. His agent has given JD nothing to work with since Lias has given his agent nothing to work with. He's his own worst enemy and, frankly, his agent should drop him and wish him well on his own. Why his agent is even putting up with this is beyond me.

I am not sure I follow, if he is asked if this is it for him in the NHL and answers that he won a spot once and hope to be able to do it again one day, what does that have to do with Howden? Like he is more referring to a fact.

The direct question is "Can you get everything in order and return -- if you start again?" with the answer being "I believe that I can be a good enough hockey player to play over there. I think I proven that in camp, after which I won one of the center spots behind Zibanejad. "

I am not saying that Lias is NOT butt-hurt or crying about nothing or what not. I don't know. But I am just saying that this comment is taken out of context if it is interpreted as meaning that Lias said that he went home because he won a spot fairly and then unfairly lost it. He is just refering to an undisputeable fact. He have won a spot for a NHL team once out of camp, and hopes that he can do it again in the future if he starts over.

 

[Crease]

My suspicion is that Quinn's love (and trust) of Howden stems from his play in early 18-19 when he looked really good. First impressions are powerful things. Andersson never looked that good, even this preseason.

 

[Ola]

A bit funny, I saw this comment from Lias when looking for the article and the exact quote, its just 6 months old:

You changed coach, out with AV and in with DQ, your reaction?
-Quinn is a bit more intensive, very careful with details. I think he is really good. He likes small things in the play and wants to develop everyone. It is a coach that focuses on the development of the individual and wants the team to win.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I will say this though. Howden never had to fight for a spot.

Based on what?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I am not sure I follow, if he is asked if this is it for him in the NHL and answers that he won a spot once and hope to be able to do it again one day, what does that have to do with Howden? Like he is more referring to a fact.

The direct question is "Can you get everything in order and return -- if you start again?" with the answer being "I believe that I can be a good enough hockey player to play over there. I think I proven that in camp, after which I won one of the center spots behind Zibanejad. "

I am not saying that Lias is NOT ********* or crying about nothing or what not. I don't know. But I am just saying that this comment is taken out of context if it is interpreted as meaning that Lias said that he went home because he won a spot fairly and then unfairly lost it. He is just refering to an undisputeable fact. He have won a spot for a NHL team once out of camp, and hopes that he can do it again in the future if he starts over.

"I think I proven that in camp, after which I won one of the center spots behind Zibanejad. "

Again, this is him indirectly saying he feels he was a top 3 center on the team in camp. Him floating around listlessly on the 4th line before he was unceremoniously sent down sort of confirms that he was moping around after thinking more highly of himself than the coach did.

 

[Harbour Dog]

A bit funny, I saw this comment from Lias when looking for the article and the exact quote, its just 6 months old:

View attachment 307963
You changed coach, out with AV and in with DQ, your reaction?
-Quinn is a bit more intensive, very careful with details. I think he is really good. He likes small things in the play and wants to develop everyone. It is a coach that focuses on the development of the individual and wants the team to win.

Much in opposition to his latest interview when asked about Quinn:

How do you feel that David Quinn has helped grow your game, and what abilities of your's do you feel have grown the most under his tutelage?
-Quinn is a f***ing f***head. I'd gladly f***ing fire him into the motherf***ing Sun given half the chance. If he could get his f***ing head out of his rancid f***ing ass, then perhaps the prick wouldn't be such a screaming bitch at practice all the f***ing time.

Sometimes the evolution of players from where they were to where they are, just brings a tear of appreciation to your eye.

edit - and no, this wasn't a real interview...

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Based on what?

I literally explained it

 

[Ola]

"I think I proven that in camp, after which I won one of the center spots behind Zibanejad. "

Again, this is him indirectly saying he feels he was a top 3 center on the team in camp. Him floating around listlessly on the 4th line before he was unceremoniously sent down sort of confirms that he was moping around after thinking more highly of himself than the coach did.

That can be what was the case, but lol, I think its impossible to construe his answer to that question as a statement to that affect.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I literally explained it

No you didn't. You didn't take into account anything in camp or anything else that factored into the decision. Which is sort of typical with the guys who go after Howden - ignore everything behind the scenes or in camp that factor into a coach's decision.

So you've really explained nothing. The idea that he didn't have to compete to earn a spot is nonsense and supported by nothing.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

That can be what was the case, but lol, I think its impossible to construe his answer to that question as a statement to that affect.

Not really. I don't believe in the view that people are too dumb to read between the lines, Ola. I certainly know that I am smart enough to and I have to assume that most on here are as well. The whole "playing coy" thing doesn't work with most people and shouldn't be given much cover.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

No you didn't. You didn't take into account anything in camp or anything else that factored into the decision. Which is sort of typical with the guys who go after Howden - ignore everything behind the scenes or in camp that factor into a coach's decision.

So you've really explained nothing.

You can disagree with my explanation but Howden only played 2 games and made the team. That's historically only true for the team's best players.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

You can disagree with my explanation but Howden only played 2 games and made the team. That's historically only true for the team's best players.

Once again you ignore the battle in camp.

A guy on a two-way deal is literally always competing to earn a spot on the team. That he impressed the coach behind the scenes and in camp to not have to play in more than two pre-season games does not at all support the idea that he was handed a spot or never had to compete.

You can dislike Howden all you want, but this kind of nonsense that Howden was handed a roster spot without having to compete at all is a non-starter.

That may fly on Blueshirt Banter, though.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I will say this though. Howden never had to fight for a spot. I said this before a few weeks ago but the pre-season roster is divided into 4 groups basically

Group A: The sure-fire starters who play 1 or 2 games and make the team
Group B: The fringe players who play 3-6 games and make the team out of camp
Group C: The fringe players who play 3-6 games and don't make it
Group D: Filler. Prospects given a look, or AHL fodder never having a chance to make it

Howden played 2 pre-season games and made the team. Others who played 2 games and made the team? Kreider, Panarin, Zibanejad, Skjei, Trouba etc.

Both Lias and Howden were fringe players based on last season's performance. Neither really solidified a spot on the team in the 2-18-19 regular season. But Lias did have a better pre-season. And everyone kept saying "It has only been 3 games" etc. We could never bring it up because "It's still early in the season". Then, from one moment to the next, that changed to "stop beating a dead horse. We've discussed this at length" yet there was never really a time where the concerns were legitimately shared.

If Lias thought he was ahead of Howden based on a stronger pre-season, I can understand that. If the pre-season "doesn't count", I have a hard time explaining why it was reason enough to send Chytil down based on that same pre-season though.

At the end of the day, there's no real reason to go over this again since things have escalated to the point where he's no longer playing but when you mention Lias' lackluster regular season performance, I think it would be fair to point out that Howden wasn't any better in those same games. In the 2019-20 season, Lias was the only forward to never get a shot with different linemates or a different line. Whatever the reason behind it, Quinn never gave him a shot. We will never find out, but what didn't help Quinn in all this (and Howden to a degree) is the comment Quinn made later on where he said he gives Howden a longer leash because he has good intentions.

Steve I appreciate and respect your opinion, but the "But Howden..." argument just doesn't work for me. Howden is irrelevant.

A large part of being an adult, rather than a child, is accepting accountability for your actions. If Lias was looking at Howden as justification for his own underwhelming play, then this just might not be for him.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Steve I appreciate and respect your opinion, but the "But Howden..." argument doesn't work for me. Howden is irrelevant.

A large part of being an adult, rather than a child, is accepting accountability for your actions. If Lias was looking at a Howden as justification for his own underwhelming play, then this just might not be for him.

Also the fact that it is pure speculation and opinion that Howden was somehow not having to fight for a roster spot. I find the idea that a bottom sixer on a two-way deal being handed a roster spot without having to fight at all for it utterly preposterous to begin with. Whether that "fighting for it" was done in camp or in pre-season is an entirely different story.

 

[romba]

So much apologists "oh he didn't MEAN it mean it, he just meant it".

Fact: Lias won a spot of training camp as 4th line center. Technically yes, that is behind Zbad. So what the hell is his quote saying that he 'thought he won a spot behind Zbad', when he did win a spot behind Zbad??? Clearly the guy thought he won a 'bigger' role, not just a role and mentioning Zbad clearly means he thought he got the 2C. You can spin it anyway you want, but why even mention Zbad then? The guy thought he earned the 2c, ended up getting minimal minutes on the 4th line and it killed him inside. He wilted instead of doubling down, and now we have what we have.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Also the fact that it is pure speculation and opinion that Howden was somehow not having to fight for a roster spot. I find the idea that a bottom sixer on a two-way deal being handed a roster spot without having to fight at all for it utterly preposterous to begin with. Whether that "fighting for it" was done in camp or in pre-season is an entirely different story.

Howden was competition. Both made the team, so it wasn’t that Lias lost out on a spot to Howden. But if Howden is so awful, and I'll admit I want to see more out of him, and his play is so bad, wouldn't stand to reason that it would be easy to take time away from him?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

So much apologists "oh he didn't MEAN it mean it, he just meant it".

Fact: Lias won a spot of training camp as 4th line center. Technically yes, that is behind Zbad. So what the hell is his quote saying that he 'thought he won a spot behind Zbad', when he did win a spot behind Zbad??? Clearly the guy thought he won a 'bigger' role, not just a role and mentioning Zbad clearly means he thought he got the 2C. You can spin it anyway you want, but why even mention Zbad then? The guy thought he earned the 2c, ended up getting minimal minutes on the 4th line and it killed him inside. He wilted instead of doubling down, and now we have what we have.

Yes. He did win it. And then he lost it.