Lewis Hamilton: Will he dethrone Michael Schumacher?

[alko]

It seems, that LH will win his 6th title in F1. He is 34 years old, had the best team around, maybe the best car. Contract until 2020.

Schumacher won 7 titles.

Will Hamilton tie or even break his record?

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[Legend Leinonen]

Looks likely as of right now.

 

[Paris in Flames]

A tie is all but a guarantee.

What happens with rules and regulations moving forward will decide if he breaks it.

But I wouldn't bet a single penny against him.

 

[JoVel]

A tie is all but a guarantee.

What happens with rules and regulations moving forward will decide if he breaks it.

But I wouldn't bet a single penny against him.

Maybe next season Ferrari will finally get their shit together and Leclerc doesn't do a Vettel in the championship hunt?

But yeah, I'd put the odds of Lewis getting his 7th title next season at somewhere around 90%. What happens after that remains to be been.

 

[Paris in Flames]

Maybe next season Ferrari will finally get their **** together and Leclerc doesn't do a Vettel in the championship hunt?

But yeah, I'd put the odds of Lewis getting his 7th title next season at somewhere around 90%. What happens after that remains to be been.

Seems unlikely.



I'm just waiting for that Leclerc/Max era. Put those two studs in championship calibre teams and sit back and enjoy.

I also don't think Lewis is going anywhere and even with whatever changes and the continued development of the young guns...Lewis will still hover at the top for a long time to come.

 

[tony d]

I think he'll do it. He should go down as the best race car driver ever.

 

[JoVel]

I think he'll do it. He should go down as the best race car driver ever.

I have a hard time believing he would pass Senna or Schumacher in most people's minds even if he broke the record. F1 fans seem to look back to the "good ol' days" even more than in other sports. I think he's definitely up there and there's an argument to be made for him, but nostalgia is just too big of a factor for the general public to consider him better than those two.

 

[alko]

I have a hard time believing he would pass Senna or Schumacher in most people's minds even if he broke the record. F1 fans seem to look back to the "good ol' days" even more than in other sports. I think he's definitely up there and there's an argument to be made for him, but nostalgia is just too big of a factor for the general public to consider him better than those two.

That may be true. Im personally dont watch today's F1.

 

[umma gumma]

I think he'll do it. He should go down as the best race car driver ever.

No way. Not for me. He's had the best car for far too long. It would be one thing if he had a dominant car for a season or two, but he's had the best car since 2014.

Vettel was all the talk when he was winning 4 consecutive championships and now, according to some, he's not even worthy of his Ferrari seat. Schumacher's legacy was cemented well before he had a car that was far away the class of the field. I remember midway through the 1997 season there was a top 100 drivers of all-time published by F1 racing magazine (they polled several members of the F1 community; team managers, ex-managers, ex-drivers, etc...) and they already had Schumacher ranked #4 behind Senna, Prost and Fangio; he hadn't yet completed his 6th full season, yet a report by the BBC ranking the all-time greatest drivers in 2012 (Lewis 6th season) had Hamilton 15th, 8 places behind Vettel. I understand these rankings aren't definitive, but they do give you an idea of how the drivers were perceived at the time. By the time Schumacher got his first truly dominant car (2002) he already had more than 50 wins to his name. Up until 2014 Hamilton scored 22 victories; since 2014 he's accumulated 60 more.

Lewis is a great driver (although I can't stand his act) but he's not done enough in nothing but the best car for me to consider him better than Senna or Schumacher. I'm not sure I'd put him ahead of Prost (on Sundays), whom I believe had the greatest rotation of teamates in the history of sport (Lauda, Senna, Mansell, Hill), and beat them all.

 

[Smash88]

In 20 years from now people will look at Hamilton the same way as the other greats. He will easily be remembered as a top 5 driver.

It's always the same, people don't usually recognize greatness until they are long gone.

 

[Paris in Flames]

It would take something obscene for people to rank a modern driver ahead of Schumacher, Senna etc. Whether it's fair or not - people always seem to value the earlier greats more than the modern day greats. Hamilton is also very polarizing as a person and has really not had a race winning car. But as noted....time will be Lewis' friend in terms of how he's seen. Once he's retired then his accomplishments will likely get looked at more favourably.

He's at worst top 3 ever for me. I do think that if somebody like Max Verstappen got into a permanently championship calibre car for the rest of his career he could take a real run at Lewis' accomplishments (though Max was obviously aided by starting F1 at 17).

 

[Albatros]

I think he'll do it. He should go down as the best race car driver ever.

I can't see why. Even Schumacher isn't anything like a consensus number one and arguably he had a significantly bigger individual role behind his successes.

 

[umma gumma]

The 'greatest qualifier of all time' was out qualified by his lesser teammate at a driver's track like Suzuka. Yet another example for me as to why he is not above Senna and Schumacher; too many weekends where he is out shined by his teammate in both qualifying and the race (even if they are few), and Bottas is nothing special.

 

[JoVel]

The 'greatest qualifier of all time' was out qualified by his lesser teammate at a driver's track like Suzuka. Yet another example for me as to why he is not above Senna and Schumacher; too many weekends where he is out shined by his teammate in both qualifying and the race (even if they are few), and Bottas is nothing special.

Hamilton has been out shined by Bottas very few times in the three years they've been together. I wouldn't exactly call that "too many". And since you're using a singular race weekend as an example I'll give you this one. Senna was outqualified by Mika Häkkinen driving his first race for McLaren in the 1993 Portuguese GP, which was the 3rd last race of the season. I mean clearly Senna should've been on top of that car by that point rather than being slower than a guy who hasn't raced in almost a year, right?

 

[Albatros]

Häkkinen being one of the all-time greats while Bottas is rather a poor man's Barrichello.

 

[umma gumma]

Hamilton has been out shined by Bottas very few times in the three years they've been together. I wouldn't exactly call that "too many".

Its too many for the supposed greatest of all time against a driver of Bottas's caliber.

And since you're using a singular race weekend as an example I'll give you this one. Senna was outqualified by Mika Häkkinen driving his first race for McLaren in the 1993 Portuguese GP, which was the 3rd last race of the season. I mean clearly Senna should've been on top of that car by that point rather than being slower than a guy who hasn't raced in almost a year, right?

It happens more than once a season.

And Estoril is not Suzuka.

Hakkinen had completed thousands of kms testing in the McLaren, it was a car and track he was very familiar with, and Mika at his peak in the late 90s was considered the fastest driver on Saturdays. Hell even Irvine outqualified Schumacher in their first race together, but it doesn't mean anything come Sunday when the points are handed out. For me there are too many weekends (even if happens only 3-5 times a season) where Mercedes' best hopes on Sunday lie with Hamilton's teammate. That was never the case when Senna and Schumacher were the lead drivers in their teams; they always had the car where it belonged, and then some.

 

[Paris in Flames]

Since Hamilton and Bottas became partners...

Hamilton
29 wins
1,109 points
Has finished ahead of Bottas 41 times
Avg points per season = 369.66

Bottas
6 wins
826 points
Has finished ahead of Hamilton 16 times
Avg points per season = 275.33

I mean. There's lots of reasons you can argue that Hamilton isn't the GOAT and frankly I don't even know where I fully stand on it but I don't think performance against Bottas is a legit knock against Lewis. For the most part ... he's dominated Bottas. Sure. He gets a preference in strategy etc but still. He has 23 more wins. That's NOT an insignificant number. In a season where Lewis won 11 races and put up 400+points ... Bottas put up 0 and finished behind Hamilton, Vettel, Kimi and Max to finish 5th.

Every GOAT debatable driver has knocks against them though. I mean.... Michael Schumacher for all his talent still resorted to repeatedly driving his threats off the track etc.

 

[umma gumma]

Lewis has most certainly dominated Bottas, but I think sometimes Bottas makes Lewis look ordinary. That was never the case for Senna and Schumacher's teammates. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Bottas would finish fewer than 16 times in front of Senna or Schumacher as their teammate, and he sure wouldn't outqualify either of them at Suzuka.

 

[MXD]

Lewis has most certainly dominated Bottas, but I think sometimes Bottas makes Lewis look ordinary. That was never the case for Senna and Schumacher's teammates. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Bottas would finish fewer than 16 times in front of Senna or Schumacher as their teammate, and he sure wouldn't outqualify either of them at Suzuka.

...Gerhard Berger outqualified Ayrton Senna at Suzuka in the same car AT LEAST once (in 3 seasons), and misplaced nostalgia is pretty much the only thing that doesn't make Berger vs. Bottas a wash.

 

[MXD]

As far as I'm concerned, Lewis Hamilton has to be ranked ahead of Ayrton Senna. I'd still have him trail Schumacher, however.

 

[Ceremony]

Bottas outqualifying Hamilton occasionally proving Hamilton isn't that good at qualifying is hilarious

 

[Albatros]

...Gerhard Berger outqualified Ayrton Senna at Suzuka in the same car AT LEAST once (in 3 seasons), and misplaced nostalgia is pretty much the only thing that doesn't make Berger vs. Bottas a wash.

Statistically Berger may not be above Bottas, but one should keep in mind that he took his victories against the combined opposition of Senna, Prost, Piquet, and Mansell. Later Schumacher as well. Even his Finnish rival Keke Rosberg was no worse than Bottas despite taking only five career victories.

 

[MXD]

Statistically Berger may not be above Bottas, but one should keep in mind that he took his victories against the combined opposition of Senna, Prost, Piquet, and Mansell. Later Schumacher as well. Even his Finnish rival Keke Rosberg was no worse than Bottas despite taking only five career victories.

And Bottas took his victories from Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso (sortof), Raikkonen, Verstappen, Ricciardo. Also was in his prime at the same time as Rosberg.

Piquet is EXTREMELY flattered by his three WCs, the same way Vettel by his fours is to a certain extent.

Berger is, litterally, the Bottas of his day, with both drivers looking great in decent-but-non-Championsip material cars, but fading in a Championship-material car, because teams building said cars tend to do with better drivers as their #1.

 

[Albatros]

Bottas never won a race with any other car (and I can't see him ever doing so), while Berger took multiple victories for three different teams. You can say that he was the average wingman at McLaren, but those were only three years of his career.

 

[MXD]

Bottas never won a race with any other car (and I can't see him ever doing so), while Berger took multiple victories for three different teams. You can say that he was the average wingman at McLaren, but those were only three years of his career.

He also took these victories when reliability was much lower.

Also, Bottas never had a race-winning car, something Berger DID have, especially in an era where reliability was much lower (Berger himself was often victim).