Level of players in these Olympics

Ciccarelli

Uncle Gelart
Dec 17, 2005
1,561
291
Seen alot of talk about the level of play and players in the Olympics and I can understand the dissappointment for the NHL's decision of not letting the NHL players go, however people who can't enjoy this tournament are NHL fans not hockey fans. It is always funny to see how (mostly NA fans) belittle the leagues and guys playing in Europe or even AHL, you guys realize that it's not like the talent level just suddenly drops drastically after those what, 700-800 guys that play in the NHL? Infact the top players in Europe are way more skilled and classically speaking better in hockey than most of the third or fourth liners in the NHL. I'm ofcourse most familiar with the finnish players and I can quite easily make the claim that a team full of NHL grinders the level of, say, Miikka Salomäki, Markus Hännikäinen or Iiro Pakarinen would get completely butchered by good teams in European leagues, let alone Olympic teams. This is something alot of you guys fail to grasp on. These guys in Europe play professionally, train professionally and earn good money doing so. Some act like the European leagues are the level of NA beer leagues, while the truth is 99% of even the guys that have played minor junior hockey would've never had a chance to play professionally in the European top leagues, no matter how hard they tried. These guys are really good and talented. Some of you guys could use the IIHF World Championships as an eye opener. These guys playing in the European pro leagues compete neck to neck with NHL guys year after year and while you can disrespect the players and their will to win every game by saying that the players from Canada and USA don't care for the WHC, I can assure you the European players do care, yet the KHL, SHL, finnish league players etc. compete just as hard and play just as well and sometimes even better than their NHL counterparts.

And just to clarify, the NHL is obviously the best league in the world (as they have most money to spend) but the European guys and NA players playing in the Olympics are pro players and by calling them scrubs or beer leaguers is insulting and ignorant and only goes to show that you know very little of the game outside the NHL.
 
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Kyndig

Registered User
Jan 3, 2012
5,147
2,862
Seen alot of talk about the level of play and players in the Olympics and I can understand the dissappointment for the NHL's decision of not letting the NHL players go, however people who can't enjoy this tournament are NHL fans not hockey fans. It is always funny to see how (mostly NA fans) belittle the leagues and guys playing in Europe or even AHL, you guys realize that it's not like the talent level just suddenly drops drastically after those what, 700-800 guys that play in the NHL? Infact the top players in Europe are way more skilled and classically speaking better in hockey than most of the third or fourth liners in the NHL. I'm ofcourse most familiar with the finnish players and I can quite easily make the claim that a team full of NHL grinders the level of, say, Miikka Salomäki, Markus Hännikäinen or Iiro Pakarinen would get completely butchered by good teams in European leagues, let alone Olympic teams. This is something alot of you guys fail to grasp on. These guys in Europe play professionally, train professionally and earn good money doing so. Some act like the European leagues are the level of NA beer leagues, while the truth is 99% of even the guys that have played minor junior hockey would've never had a chance to play professionally in the European top leagues, no matter how hard they tried. These guys are really good and talented. Some of you guys could use the IIHF World Championships as an eye opener. These guys playing in the European pro leagues compete neck to neck with NHL guys year after year and while you can disrespect the players and their will to win every game by saying that the players from Canada and USA don't care for the WHC, I can assure you the European players do care, yet the KHL, SHL, finnish league players etc. compete just as hard and play just as well and sometimes even better than their NHL counterparts.

And just to clarify, the NHL is obviously the best league in world (as they have most money to spend) but the European guys and NA players playing in the Olympics are pro players and by calling them scrubs or beer leaguers is insulting and ignorant and only goes to show that you know very little of the game outside the NHL.

If most people viewed the European leagues that way then why do most people expect USA/Canada to not medal? It's for that very reason of them having better leagues when there isn't an NHL that countries like Russia or Sweden are the favorite.

Without the NHL the NA teams are complete trash, so of course people will be upset. The fact that USA lost to Slovenia tells you everything you need to know, the last time they played Slovenia and Slovakia in the Olympics USA won 5-1 and 7-1...and that was with a weak USA roster compared to what it would've been this year.

Not only can they not draw from the NHL but they also can't draw most players from most of the AHL if they have a two way contract, its a huge handicap for NA. If anything people underestimate the AHL. Someone said that none of the players would make the roster anywhere else...AHL All Stars beat Farjestad BK 7-2 in a head to head game.
 

Ciccarelli

Uncle Gelart
Dec 17, 2005
1,561
291
If anything people underestimate the AHL. Someone said that none of the players would make the roster anywhere else...AHL All Stars beat Farjestad BK 7-2 in a head to head game.
Like I said, I think so too. The AHL is very much comparable to the swedish, finnish and swiss top leagues.
 
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Cellee

Registered User
Dec 20, 2014
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6,168
I have watched one coach's corner and 10 mins of a period and I am all in.

Do us proud, boys! We want the 3-peat!
 

Cellee

Registered User
Dec 20, 2014
8,951
6,168
Basically all players on the big teams are top AHL players.
Whatever. It is what it is now. I will enjoy the tournament regardless.

It brings some intrigue to see some older familiar names/lessor knowns get their day in the sun for Canada.
 

Cellee

Registered User
Dec 20, 2014
8,951
6,168
I have to go to work and am delaying to watch a Czech vs Korea game.
 

Elvs

Registered User
Jul 3, 2006
12,269
4,636
Sweden
Half the posters on HFboards have never heard of Derek MacKenzie. Obviously they are gonna be ignorant to anything hockey-related unless it concerns the NHL.

IRL, I usually have to explain to Swedes that the diffence between the NHL and the SHL is bigger than they think. But here it's the complete opposite.
 

RageQuit77

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
5,200
3,724
Finland, Kotka
Considering how small minority of all professional/semi-professional hockey players form the pool of active NHL players in any given moment, and how much off-hockey things can influence to a player's changes to ever enter to NHL, it feels completely ridiculous if someone really thinks that NHL status itself would be some kind categorical minimum limit or even firesure guarantee for top level hockey player. Like the top level hockey would just dramatically end when we talk hockey beyond NHL. Europeans have far less misconceptions and illusions in these things then their North American fellow hockey fans generally seems to have.

Many great hockey players never even try to make it to NHL, and many of those who make it may not be able to keep their roster positions, and that still not meaning they would be automatically bust-level beer-leaguers. Many of guys who didn't make it one year, could've made it some other year. Also, all top players are not playing in NHL, there are fair share of them in various European leagues, particularly in KHL. And that's only good thing for the game of hockey.

One good example of extraordinary player who couldn't enter NHL permanently, but who managed to make incredible international career nevertheless. Main reason for his NHL "busting" was then rather badly hurt, broken back.

Raimo Helminen - Wikipedia

Yes. I'm long time fan of Raipe, and I'm very proud of it. NHL has always been a lair for certain proportion of lot worse quality players then our beloved Maestro emerged with his career accomplishments. World class play maker, and team player he was...
 
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Albatros

Registered User
Aug 19, 2017
12,272
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Ostsee
One good example of extraordinary player who couldn't enter NHL permanently, but who managed to make incredible international career nevertheless. Main reason for his NHL "busting" was then rather badly hurt, broken back.

Maybe his comeback failed because of that, but his Rangers career derailed mainly because his own level of performance dropped at a time when Phil Esposito took over and was getting rid of players he didn't like.
 
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swoopster

Politally incorrect
Dec 10, 2015
668
258
MI formerly MA
I'm glad this thread was started because I also get damn sick and tired of hearing about how weak the talent pool at this Olympics is. I watched Slovenia play a textbook third period against the US. Their power play late in the third was movement wise excellent , and that was quite a gutsy move to head into overtime playing 3 forwards. I love the GAME, so many can play it well!
 

Laineux

Registered User
Aug 1, 2011
5,267
2,826
The narrative that European stars are more skilled than NHL bottom 6 players is an outdated narrative that might've been true 10-15 years ago but not even close to true today.
 

Elvs

Registered User
Jul 3, 2006
12,269
4,636
Sweden
The narrative that European stars are more skilled than NHL bottom 6 players is an outdated narrative that might've been true 10-15 years ago but not even close to true today.

Nah, it's still true to this day. Only looking at team Sweden, guys like Linus Omark, Joakim Lindstrom and Oscar Moller are defenitely more skilled than a lot of 4th liners in the NHL, but that doesn't nessecarely make them better players.

It's the same thing with any league. The top offensive players in allsvenskan are often more skilled than your typical 4th line SHL player. Teams in any league tend to fill out their rosters with good penalty killers/role players, rather than skilled players who aren't quite skilled to be productive at the next level.
 
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Elvs

Registered User
Jul 3, 2006
12,269
4,636
Sweden
Here's an example of what I mean ...



I would deem a defensive 4th line center like Nate Thompson a better hockey player than Linus Klasen, simply because he can fill a role at the highest level. But Klasen is absolutely the more skilled player, and more capable of taking advantage against easier competition. It's been many years since he tried the NHL, would be interesting to see him try again. Same goes for Omark. Though neither is getting any younger.
 

Hanji

Registered User
Oct 14, 2009
3,153
2,637
Wisconsin
Another good example is a player like Girgensons. If I’m not mistaken, he usually plays on Lavtia’s 3rd line, taking a backseat to more talented KHLrs in offensive situations.

Generally a bottom 6 NHL role is skill specific, meaning one doesnt need great offensive skill to thrive.
 

Jablkon

Registered User
May 23, 2014
1,693
131
Czech Republic
I watched just Russia - Slovakia and czechs and so far seems to me way below WHC. Not sure if it is because of no hype around these games or hopefully it just improve in later rounds. Even those ordinary 4-5 NHLers are evidently missed in czech team, at least as personalities.

Any czech player would be dominant or PPG in AHL but most of them are players who didnt succeed in NHL or werent even under radar much. Two goalies are going overseas after the season and lets say Mozik, Polasek and Horak might get one more chance if they have a good tourney.

So level is better than KHL imo and its refreshing to see what top Euro guys can do on big stage without NHL help. Plus you can see positive surprises like slovaks playing their best hockey in last two years.
 
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swoopster

Politally incorrect
Dec 10, 2015
668
258
MI formerly MA
The explanation is simple. You can't skate 4 lines of skilled players...who would play defense???. So an NHL team fields a squad that can accomplish both...that why muckers and grinders still have a place in todays NHL...along with the occasional ...dare I say enforcer...goon! HA HA!
 

Eye of Ra

Grandmaster General of the International boards
Nov 15, 2008
17,963
4,454
Malmö, Sweden
if shl, khl, liiga, nla is bad, then all soccer leagues outside of pl, la liga and bundesliga sucks too....thats the logic some people use ...

only because nhl is better it does not mean the quality of top euro leagues is bad..

heck, in the 70s and 80s, cska moskva was better than any nhl-club...
 
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adsfan

#164303
May 31, 2008
12,621
3,665
Milwaukee
Here's an example of what I mean ...



I would deem a defensive 4th line center like Nate Thompson a better hockey player than Linus Klasen, simply because he can fill a role at the highest level. But Klasen is absolutely the more skilled player, and more capable of taking advantage against easier competition. It's been many years since he tried the NHL, would be interesting to see him try again. Same goes for Omark. Though neither is getting any younger.


I saw Klasen play in Milwaukee in the AHL. He has the skill to play in the NHL, but not the size or strength. He had some issues in AHL due to his size.
 

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