Babcocks Marner
It's a magical time
I have a 99% agreement rate with your posts. This is not one of them. 10mil is the average here.Well, just at a guess I'd say the going rate for a 60 point first liner is about what's been mentioned here.
I have a 99% agreement rate with your posts. This is not one of them. 10mil is the average here.Well, just at a guess I'd say the going rate for a 60 point first liner is about what's been mentioned here.
What? That's absurd.I have a 99% agreement rate with your posts. This is not one of them. 10mil is the average here.
okay okay 100%...... thought this was the Matthews thread.What? That's absurd.
Haha yeah that makes much more sense.okay okay 100%...... thought this was the Matthews thread.
Why pay a premium for a guy who will not top 25 goals and is a total non factor in the playoffs? Leafs should be looking to unload him for a defenseman.
Soft, one trick ponies, who play on the perimeter are not that hard to find.
I don't understand this point. Nylander has a three year sample where he has in various usage put up 60ish points with terrific underlying numbers as an elite transition player. How has he not proven something? What has Marner proven that Willy hasn't?
You can't prove something that is subjective.Marner has proven his compete level is better.
You mean like Willy did better than most of NHL last year? You're judging Marner based on playing on the best PP unit in the league, and Nylander based on playing on one that isn't functioning at all.He has proven he can run the PP from the half wall.
That's interesting, because this is actually true of Nylander. When looking at statistical effect on linemates over their two years, Nylander elevates his line more than anyone on the team.He proved he can elevate who ever he is on the ice with.
It's noticeable because you are forcing a nonsensical agenda. There's pretty much not a player in the league who can dominate at a whim. Saying that about Nylander is just a way to set the bar so high that you can disparage him for not reaching it. Which is all kinds of sad.Its so noticeable because Nylander is the most skilled Maple Leaf player and could dominate the game at any moment if he wanted too.
Marner has proven his compete level is better. He has proven he can run the PP from the half wall. He proved he can elevate who ever he is on the ice with. Nylander has not proven any of this. Marner is far more valuble to the Leafs team all based on one thing. His compete level= consistency= trust from coach.
Nylander checks in and out mentally at any given time. Its so noticeable because Nylander is the most skilled Maple Leaf player and could dominate the game at any moment if he wanted too. He wont be a C on this team because of this. When Nylander was moved off the #1 line earlier in the year, his ambition and compete level dropped off even more. Im still not convinced he plays here long term.
People slagging Nylander’s points are so out to lunch that it makes me laugh.
It may be a blessing in disguise contract wise but the only reason Nylander(and Matthews) haven’t exploded offensively this year is because of their PP performance. Nylander has been great at producing at even strength.
Hopefully the leafs lock him up long term at a good deal because he’s ready to explode.
Yessir. I'm on board with the folks who want Nylander signed long-term.This, so much this.
2016-17 - 81 GP
Even strength p60 - 1.83 (33 points)
Powerplay p60 - 8.48 (27 points)
2017-18 - 76GP
Even strength p60 - 2.38 (43 points)
Powerplay p60 - 3.58 (9 points)
Yeah his oiSH% might be a little high 5v5 this season, but it definitely is correcting from last year. It's also making up for the fact his PP unit can't catch a break. If he puts it together though, watch out.
Yessir. I'm on board with the folks who want Nylander signed long-term.
$6.25 over 8 years - git 'er done Lou.
Yeah, pretty much. More if they are UFA. That seem to be the rate for more recent contracts.
I don't mind an 8 year contract at a bargain.
But giving contracts on what you hope a player becomes, and not what they've proven to be, is very risky business.
How much would you pay a 60 point first liner and at what term? That's all he's proven to be thus far.
Don't get me wrong... I'm a huge fan of Nylander. I hope he becomes something special. But as of right now... he's a 60 point first liner.
Category | 16-17 | 17-18 |
GP | 81 | 76 |
TOI (minutes) | 1297 | 1271 |
Points | 61 (22G, 39A) | 54 (17G, 37A) |
PP Points | 26 (9G, 17A) | 9 (4G, 5A) |
Shots | 205 | 168 |
S% | 10.73 | 10.12 |
iCF | 363 | 345 |
iSCF | 201 | 212 |
iHDCF | 55 | 73 |
Penalties Drawn | 6 | 17 |
Giveaways | 30 | 51 |
Takeaways | 59 | 64 |
FO% | 40.16* | 50.59 |
O-Zone FO | 506 | 482 |
N-Zone FO | 404 | 421 |
D-Zone FO | 276 | 382 |
O-Zone FO% | 64.71% | 55.79% |
HDCF% | 317 | 322 |
HDGF | 40 | 42 |
HDGA | 23 | 29 |
HDGF% | 63.49 | 59.15 |
Please accept that I'm not challenging you, but I'm curious as to your views regarding the signing of Matthews. Many (not saying you) are quoting 10/10.5/11 M/yr for Auston. To date, I love his potential and appreciate what he has done so far, but he has not proven to be a player worth those figures. Would you make an exception in Matty's case, as in a 'very risky business' scenario, or is it just Nylander with whom your concerns lie?
40 goals in a rookie year is remarkably special. How many players have done that in the past 20 years? And since he was on pace for actually improving those numbers year 2, makes it even more special. So I think there is a very good chance that Matthews is our future. Give him whatever it takes.
As for Nylander... I'm still a fan. But while 60 points in the first two seasons is great, it's just not special. I don't think it warrants an 8 year term or $50 million. Look what happened with Zaitsev. There just wasn't a big enough sample size to offer that contract, and it looks like it might bite us in the ass. Or maybe he'll improve. I don't know. I just don't like contracts that are based on what you hope someone will become. Especially at 8 years.
Do you value goals over points? Matty already has an excellent overall game. Offensively and defensively. His defensive game will only get better. No question he's getting signed long-term at $10m +
I think Ehlers and Pastrnak are great comparables for Nylander. Very similar stats the past few years.
Pastrnak (246GP) is at 0.8 PPG from 2014-2018
Nylander (179GP ) is at 0.72 PPG from 2015-2018
Ehlers (229GP) is at 0.69 PPG from 2015-2018
Look at the difference in GP from Pastrnak and Ehlers to Nylander. Pastrnak also has accumulated over 44 points on the PP the past two years. On top, Nylander has produced all this primarily as a winger, depending on who you ask you can argue that centres are usually more proficient at producing due to being able to see the ice better.
Anything can happen, but I feel Nylander can definitely be a 70+ point 2C for the Leafs going forward. Huge, huge fan of the way he plays and his skillset. Superb.
40 goals in a rookie year is remarkably special. How many players have done that in the past 20 years? And since he was on pace for actually improving those numbers year 2, makes it even more special. So I think there is a very good chance that Matthews is our future. Give him whatever it takes.
As for Nylander... I'm still a fan. But while 60 points in the first two seasons is great, it's just not special. I don't think it warrants an 8 year term or $50 million. Look what happened with Zaitsev. There just wasn't a big enough sample size to offer that contract, and it looks like it might bite us in the ass. Or maybe he'll improve. I don't know. I just don't like contracts that are based on what you hope someone will become. Especially at 8 years.
I see what you're saying - you're leveling the playing field with stats that fall in line with similar GP. Which is fine. No problem.This is a little bit of stats cherry-picking. Pastrnak and Ehlers started in the NHL at younger ages, and thus of course will produce less.
If you look at the last two seasons:
Pastrnak: 149GP, is at 0.96 PPG and scored 64 goals
Ehlers: 157GP, is at 0.76 PPG and scored 53 goals
Nylander: 157GP, is at 0.73 PPG and scored 39 goals
Nylander should not be in the same conversation as Pastrnak.
Ehlers and Nylander are the same caliber, but I'd argue the extra scoring ability Ehlers has shown translates a slightly larger contract.
Nylander should not get paid more than 6 million.
This is a little bit of stats cherry-picking. Pastrnak and Ehlers started in the NHL at younger ages, and thus of course will produce less.
If you look at the last two seasons:
Pastrnak: 149GP, is at 0.96 PPG and scored 64 goals
Ehlers: 157GP, is at 0.76 PPG and scored 53 goals
Nylander: 157GP, is at 0.73 PPG and scored 39 goals
Nylander should not be in the same conversation as Pastrnak.
Ehlers and Nylander are the same caliber, but I'd argue the extra scoring ability Ehlers has shown translates a slightly larger contract.
Nylander should not get paid more than 6 million.