Let's talk about the potential VGK goaltending tandems

CBJ goalie

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May 19, 2005
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As a goalie myself, I love goalies.
Absolutely the most important position in hockey, if not all sports.

I think we can all agree that the VGK will be strongest in net. There's just so many good goalies available - so I ask: who do you want to see as the inaugural tandem?

I would first like to see them grab an experienced goalie, like Fleury, Bishop or Howard. Guess I'd go with Fleury, as he's got great experience, and he's a really happy-go-lucky kinda guy that would handle the load well.
Next, I'd like to see them get a good experienced back-up goalie that has a chance to challenge for the #1 spot. I'd really like to see Raanta here, from the NYR. He's shown flashes of being able to be a #1.
(Another guy that fits this role is Darling from CHI).
Lastly, gotta grab a young goalie, a prospect with a little bit of NHL experience. Here, I'm thinking Korpisalo from CBJ. He's done well in Bobrovsky's shadow.

Thoughts​, suggestions?
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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LOCK & LOAD. :yo:

Roberto Luongo OR James Reimer
Calvin Pickard OR Semyon Varlamov

Bank on it.
 

The Duck Knight

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Feb 6, 2012
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I'd personally like to see a Bishop/Neuvirth tandem with a guy like Korpisalo in the AHL. I'm not a big believer in guys like Darling/Raanta/Grubuaer because goalie stats are largely based on what kind of a team said goalie has in front of them and these guys don't have a large enough sample size to indicate they aren't products of their systems. Fleury/Bernier would be my backup plan to Bishop/Neuvirth.
 

patricafdw

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Sadly, I have too little knowledge of where the skater value is in the expansion draft. Since our goalkeepers almost guaranteed WILL be of good quality, the most important thing is to not use our picks on goalkeepers in teams where we could get good skaters. The second most important thing is to not take anyone with a potentially bad (long/expensive) contract.

If there are no better value picks from the respective teams I would like to see Bishop, Raanta, Ullmark.
 

CBJ goalie

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May 19, 2005
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LOCK & LOAD. :yo:

Roberto Luongo OR James Reimer
Calvin Pickard OR Semyon Varlamov

Bank on it.

Would Luongo want to come to VGK at this point in his career?
He made a little noise in the past about wanting to be in Florida, for his family....
Reimer, I'm not completely sold on. I think he's a good goalie, remember him from his Toronto days....but I haven't seen as much of him in FLA.
No interest in Pickard here.
Varlamov, he can run hot & cold - when he's hot, he's unbelievable.

The one thing that makes me hesitate in wanting to have Raanta picked up, VGK would have to pass on Grabner and I think he'd be a great addition, since they will lack in scoring the first year.
 

airbus220

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Feb 19, 2012
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the most important thing is to not use our picks on goalkeepers in teams where we could get good skaters.

Exactly, most important are skaters in the draft. We will get our goalies in July. So forget about Korpisalo, Grubauer, Reimer.

Bishop, why pay much for him. I would never do this.
Fleury and Howard both have 2 more years on their contract. I wouldn't want that at their cap hits.
Raanta could be possible in the draft but not important in the draft.
Darling, Bernier could be signed AFTER the draft, but I wouldn't overpay for them.
Like in the headline I really would want a tandem, not a real starter.
Picard could be a good choice in the draft but he won't be exposed, especially after his last weeks.
 

LadyStanley

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Sep 22, 2004
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Dallas apparently trying to get Vegas to take one of their guys. May require pick and/or prospect to get the deal done.
 

airbus220

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Feb 19, 2012
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Dallas apparently trying to get Vegas to take one of their guys. May require pick and/or prospect to get the deal done.

Lehtonen is not bad but I wouldn't take him in the draft. After the draft depending on the pick we have to get.
Not interested in Niemi.
 

Hooliganx3

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Oct 28, 2010
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Fleury is a huge no go for me. He makes to much and isn't that good.

I think signing someone like Miller for a 2 year deal as a stop gap while taking young guys with potential in the ED if no decent skater is available would be the best move. Miller wants to be close to LA. Besides the Ducks or Kings who most likely have no interest in him Vegas would be closest.
 

Street Hawk

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Feb 18, 2003
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As a goalie myself, I love goalies.
Absolutely the most important position in hockey, if not all sports.

I think we can all agree that the VGK will be strongest in net. There's just so many good goalies available - so I ask: who do you want to see as the inaugural tandem?

I would first like to see them grab an experienced goalie, like Fleury, Bishop or Howard. Guess I'd go with Fleury, as he's got great experience, and he's a really happy-go-lucky kinda guy that would handle the load well.
Next, I'd like to see them get a good experienced back-up goalie that has a chance to challenge for the #1 spot. I'd really like to see Raanta here, from the NYR. He's shown flashes of being able to be a #1.
(Another guy that fits this role is Darling from CHI).
Lastly, gotta grab a young goalie, a prospect with a little bit of NHL experience. Here, I'm thinking Korpisalo from CBJ. He's done well in Bobrovsky's shadow.

Thoughts​, suggestions?

I think they likely draft UFA goalies or a young one. The veterans, I think they can make a side deal to pick up one.

Bishop is UFA. Would expect the Kings to have a F/D that would be better to claim than a UFA goalie.
Fleury - has a NMC which he would need to waive. Don't see him doing that. Plus, I think the Pens have some players that would be of interest to the Knights.
Howard - 2 years left at $5.33. But, I think the Wings have enough young players that I would pass on Howard. Maybe make a side deal for him
Varlamov - 2 years left at $5.9. Avs roster is pretty barren. So, this might be the place to grab the vet goalie.
Niemi/Lehtonen - each 1 year left. But, better to make a side deal to take them on and help Dallas out.

Knights will be in a position to make a deal to pick up a veteran goalie after the ED. So, I would focus my efforts on acquiring the best young players I could, and mix in a few veterans with 1-2 years left on their contracts, which I could flip at the TDL in 2018/2019.

Draft a UFA goalie, if I need to, plus aim for 1 younger goalie. Have to pick 3 goalies I believe.
 

mouser

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Jul 13, 2006
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Dallas apparently trying to get Vegas to take one of their guys. May require pick and/or prospect to get the deal done.

There's a lot of time remaining to see how the expansion draft goalie options for Vegas pan out. But I'm struggling to find a deal where Vegas might be willing to take on Lehtonen or Niemi with a sweetener that Dallas would pay. It's probably better overall for Dallas to just buy out one or both of the goalies then trying to pay Vegas to take one of them off their hands.
 

Street Hawk

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There's a lot of time remaining to see how the expansion draft goalie options for Vegas pan out. But I'm struggling to find a deal where Vegas might be willing to take on Lehtonen or Niemi with a sweetener that Dallas would pay. It's probably better overall for Dallas to just buy out one or both of the goalies then trying to pay Vegas to take one of them off their hands.

Dallas has $10.4 million committed in cap space for their 2 goalies right now. So, buying them both out means a $3.5 million cap hit in each of the next 2 seasons. So, if they were to sign Bishop for $6 million and get a backup goalie for $1 million, they are still going to be at $10.5 million in goalies for each of the next 2 seasons.

That's pretty high for goalie costs. Not sure they can actually spare assets to move on from their goalies. And their defence needs to be improved.
 

Fonzerelli

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Dallas has $10.4 million committed in cap space for their 2 goalies right now. So, buying them both out means a $3.5 million cap hit in each of the next 2 seasons. So, if they were to sign Bishop for $6 million and get a backup goalie for $1 million, they are still going to be at $10.5 million in goalies for each of the next 2 seasons.

That's pretty high for goalie costs. Not sure they can actually spare assets to move on from their goalies. And their defence needs to be improved.

Goaltending is the most important position on the team. Not unusual for teams to wrap up between 7-11 million on a good tandem.

I could see Vegas taking Niemi off their hands as a backup if Dallas threw in a prospect or two (Heatherington & Ully) and/or maybe one of their two 4th round picks
 

Gigantor The Goalie

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Feb 4, 2012
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I love this topic because Vegas gets a clean slate to build their ideal goalie pipeline at all levels. Vegas should be going into the off-season with a shopping list that looks like this:

1 Expansion Draft Goalie to be in a 1A/1B Tandem (Loungo/Reimer, Antti Raanta, Philipp Grubauer, Ward/Lack)
1 ED Goalie to flip for picks
1 ED Goalie that is waiver exempt (Joonas Korpisalo, Antoine Bibeau, Linus Ullmark, Daniel Altshuller)


1 UFA Goalie to be in a 1A/1B Tandem (Darling, Mason)
1 UFA Goalie signed to either a NHL or AHL deal to be #4 on the depth chart
1 CHL/NCAA goalie to start in the ECHL

1 Draft Re-Entry goalie (coughDhilloncough)
1 High End Prospect (Oettinger/DiPietro/Primeau/etc)

This is a minimum of course and some can change depending on the AHL team situation. You might not need that #4 guy on a AHL or NHL deal if you are sharing the AHL organization with another NHL team. You do need at least four goalies under NHL contract and in the pro system for depth reasons.
 

airbus220

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Feb 19, 2012
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(Loungo/Reimer, Antti Raanta, Philipp Grubauer, Ward/Lack)
(Joonas Korpisalo, Antoine Bibeau, Linus Ullmark, Daniel Altshuller)

FLA, CBJ will have good skater exposed so forget about Luongo, Reimer, Korpisalo.
Raanta is possible depending on who will be exposed.
Grubauer, Bibeau, Ullmark, Altshuller are RFA, not worth to waste draft picks without contract on goalies, we only have 10.
Which goalie will CAR protect. I wouldn't want Lack.
Let's talk about UFA after the draft.
I wouldn't draft goalies in the Entry Draft. Goalies are the least problem. If we need goalie prospects I would ask for them as a filler in a trade. We will make many trades, not a problem to get the prospects we want.
 

Gigantor The Goalie

Speak for the Goalies
Feb 4, 2012
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I wouldn't draft goalies in the Entry Draft. Goalies are the least problem. If we need goalie prospects I would ask for them as a filler in a trade. We will make many trades, not a problem to get the prospects we want.

That's quite the extreme position. 17/30 starters in the NHL come from the 1st three rounds of the draft while 27/30 are goalies who have been drafted. If Vegas is going to do this right they need an almost surefire goalie prospect from the draft. They can't get one in a trade unless you think a team is willing to trade a Spencer Martin, Tristian Jarry, Carter Hart, Linus Soderstrom, etc. and guess what those teams know how good those goalies are so it will be a problem to get the prospects you want. If you trade for a goalie prospect it won't be anyone worth anything.

I understand that with only 7 picks and no prospect pool to start with there is hesitancy to use one of 7 picks on a goalie. This is why I've always prefaced or mentioned that Vegas needs extra picks. With those picks you can afford to use one or even two on a goalie prospect because it's very important to draft goalies. Having an Oettinger/DiPietro in the pipeline is a lot more helpful than a Ty Edmonds to a franchise just getting it's start (or any franchise really).
 

airbus220

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That's quite the extreme position. 17/30 starters in the NHL come from the 1st three rounds of the draft while 27/30 are goalies who have been drafted. If Vegas is going to do this right they need an almost surefire goalie prospect from the draft. They can't get one in a trade unless you think a team is willing to trade a Spencer Martin, Tristian Jarry, Carter Hart, Linus Soderstrom, etc. and guess what those teams know how good those goalies are so it will be a problem to get the prospects you want. If you trade for a goalie prospect it won't be anyone worth anything.

I understand that with only 7 picks and no prospect pool to start with there is hesitancy to use one of 7 picks on a goalie. This is why I've always prefaced or mentioned that Vegas needs extra picks. With those picks you can afford to use one or even two on a goalie prospect because it's very important to draft goalies. Having an Oettinger/DiPietro in the pipeline is a lot more helpful than a Ty Edmonds to a franchise just getting it's start (or any franchise really).

Of course it's important to have a good goalie in the AHL who can be called up and play some games if injuries occur. Not easy to get a good one and if we draft one in expansion who will likely be an RFA how long will he be waiver exempt. Amazing what Budaj did this season, trading for Bishop made LAK worse. Would be good to have a Budaj type in the AHL.

I'm not interested in starters. I would be happy with two good 1b in a tandem, very cheap and not difficult to get. Most important is coaching to develop the goalies we will have.

Drafting goalies is a waste. I would rather draft F because they are easier to project and then trade those F for goalies who already showed some class and take advantage of the market. Isles have Soderstrom and Sorokin, they can't keep both, one of them should be trade bait, same for many other teams.
 

Street Hawk

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Drafting goalies is a waste. I would rather draft F because they are easier to project and then trade those F for goalies who already showed some class and take advantage of the market. Isles have Soderstrom and Sorokin, they can't keep both, one of them should be trade bait, same for many other teams.

Drawback of this philosophy is that teams are going to keep who they perceive to be the better of their young goalies. So, the quality of young goalie might not be as high.

Calgary - will decide between Gillies and MacDonald in the coming year or 2. Then their next decision is the runner up vs Parsons.

So, if Vegas can secure a 2nd round pick this draft to take a bad contract, they can use that 2nd round pick to select one of the goalies. It's a deep draft for goalies. That's an option.
 

Gigantor The Goalie

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Feb 4, 2012
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Of course it's important to have a good goalie in the AHL who can be called up and play some games if injuries occur. Not easy to get a good one and if we draft one in expansion who will likely be an RFA how long will he be waiver exempt. Amazing what Budaj did this season, trading for Bishop made LAK worse. Would be good to have a Budaj type in the AHL.

I'm not interested in starters. I would be happy with two good 1b in a tandem, very cheap and not difficult to get. Most important is coaching to develop the goalies we will have.

Drafting goalies is a waste. I would rather draft F because they are easier to project and then trade those F for goalies who already showed some class and take advantage of the market. Isles have Soderstrom and Sorokin, they can't keep both, one of them should be trade bait, same for many other teams.

I don't know what Budaj or Bishop have to do with anything as I'm strictly speaking about the NHL Entry Draft and the long term outlook of Vegas. There are always going to be stop gaps in free agency which is what I alluded to in my first post in this thread as a target for the Vegas Goalie Shopping List. Moving on though...

Drafting goalies is not a waste in any form (Ask the Kings about how drafting/developing goalies works great when you do it and hurts when you stop). Do you not understand that there is an advantage to drafting and developing goalies rather than just always spending assets on them? With a properly drafted and developed goalie you either a) have a somewhat cheap homegrown asset that takes up a spot in the depth chart that you don't need to over pay for in free agency b) an asset that you can trade to increase your own asset pool (LA trading Bernier/Jones, Nucks trading Luongo/Schneider, Caps trading Varly/Neuvirth).

It's backwards thinking to say screw drafting goalies. The Islanders aren't going to trade Soderstrom or Sorokin until they have to. What's from stopping them from holding onto both and running a Sorokin/Soderstrom tandem in the AHL and then the NHL? They certainly aren't going to just give them away, they'll want a high price until one busts. I'm sure the Avs are wishing they never had to move a 1st to bring in Varlamov but they had to because they were terrible at developing goalies until recently. I'm sure Dallas wishes they could develop goalies instead of spending +10M on average at best goalies. Could go on really.

TL;DR Drafting and developing goalies gives you a huge advantage over a good portion of the league.
 

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