OT: Let's talk about movies and TV - Part XXIV

[Skip Bayless]

One side's 'freedom fighter'/white helmet is often the other side's terrorist.

That's why she was not a hero, but she didn't rule with death as she's doing now.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Do you really , private message me i wanna see if u do

I wouldn't wanna spoil it for you.

 

[Habs]

Enough about GoT for now.

If anyone hasn't seen Sneaky Pete, do yourself a favor and watch it. If you liked breaking bad, you'll like this too. Bryan Cranston takes obvious cues from his signature series with its great blend of drama and comedy. Lots of twists and turns and some excellent character development. It's what I hoped Ozark would be like.

I enjoyed Sneaky Pete the first season, then it went a little Ocean's 11 on us last year. Hope Season 3 comes back to its roots.

 

[Runner77]

Guys, you heard the man. For the time being use the spoiler tags. Enough back and forth on this.

The the victors go the spoiler tags.

 

[Kriss E]

Her dragons were virtually useless from seasons 2 until what 5 or 6 when they had grown. She didn't even have the dragons when she was left to die by most of the Dothraki. Yet a number of Dothraki were still loyal to her, Mormont became loyal long before the dragons too. So saying she would've been an abused widow without the dragons is clearly not true. She had gotten beyond that fate before she even had dragons.

Her early strength was based on the Unsullied which she gained through cunning. It's not at all obvious that the Second Sons joined her because of dragons, it seemed very much her inspiring love/lust in one of their leaders.

And sure maybe without the dragons she would've died, but the same could be said of Jon Snow and Ghost. Without a Dire Wolf Jon Snow probably dies vs wildings. Ghost also intimidated many Night Watch members who hated him and so kept him safe, etc...

The reason a few Dothraki were loyal was because she was the wife of Drogo, not because she's some savvy powerful mind, and it wasn't until she started walking through fire and getting her dragons that she got their respect.
Dude, it's undeniable, the big reason why Dany got people behind her is thanks to her Dragon. I mean really, this isn't debatable. Sure, she's not a complete dimwit, maybe without them she'd have acted differently and won the throne another way. But as it stands, she ain't all that smart and people gave her a chance because they know what's behind her.

And there's no evidence to suggest that Jon Snow is anywhere close to the greatest fighter out there. He's only ever been shown as good, most of the time versus guys with little to no training. There's not much of a case to suggest he was at the level of Jamie, The Hound, The Mountain, or Brienne, too name a few. Can we even say he was better then Tormond, Jorah, Bronn, Beric, Gendry, Arya, etc...

The reason Jon Snow is where he is has very little to do with being a great fighter. He didn't become Lord Commander of the Night's Watch because he was a skilled fighter, if you remember he even felt his fighting skills should've made him a Ranger instead of a Steward. He gained the loyalty of the wildlings by saving them, not by being the best fighter, etc...

Fine, not the greatest fighter..But without being a warrior, he ain't there. Point is, it's his skills. He didn't go around threatening and killing people using 3 unlimited nuke machines to get what he wants.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Do you really , private message me i wanna see if u do

Takes 15 seconds to google it.

 

[Kriss E]

Are people having a discussion about spoiler tag and its implications?
As much as political correction, participation trophies and babying is an issue today, this ''F-U I'll do wtv I want'' attitude is just as big of a problem.
Just stfu and put the spoiler tag on...or write ''Spoiler Alert'' at the top of your post. Have a pinch of decency....wtf.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I wouldn't wanna spoil it for you.

lol i already knew the spoilers from episode 3-4-5 at episode 2. They were right , the same dude wont lie for the last episode.

 

[Skip Bayless]

lol i already knew the spoilers from episode 3-4-5 at episode 2. They were right , the same dude wont lie for the last episode.

I knew them like 6 months ago and they've been posted like 23 times already.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Are people having a discussion about spoiler tag and its implications?
As much as political correction, participation trophies and babying is an issue today, this ''F-U I'll do wtv I want'' attitude is just as big of a problem.
Just **** and put the spoiler tag on...or write ''Spoiler Alert'' at the top of your post. Have a pinch of decency....wtf.

Or just dont read the thread if you did not catchup

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I knew them like 6 months ago and they've been posted like 23 times already.

Spoiler: GOT ending spoiler

Yeah so you know that the ending is complete dogshit and have 0 meaning to the story and that half of dialogues are freaking useless.

 

[Runner77]

Are people having a discussion about spoiler tag and its implications?
...

Not anymore. A mod has put an end to them, thankfully.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Spoiler: GOT ending spoiler

Yeah so you know that the ending is complete dog**** and have 0 meaning to the story and that half of dialogues are freaking useless.

Spoiler

It's a crap ending for sure, but there's still room for speculation since the leakers don't watch the entire episode, nor get to hear the full dialogue. The bullet points are right, but there is important stuff that is left out still.

 

[Kimota]

It's very believable that Dany would end the story as the villain but like you, I think it was rushed. The writers kind of chalk it up to "She's a targaryen after all" which is so sloppy.

It's like they want us to believe all Targaryen's end up mad but want us to forget her older brother Reghar was actually seen as a good man who helped the unfortunate.

The idea is that when a Targ is born, you flip a coin he/she may be extremly Good or extremly Evil.

 

[overlords]

Or just dont read the thread if you did not catchup

It's like walking into a bar and being surprised there's alcohol.

Are people having a discussion about spoiler tag and its implications?
As much as political correction, participation trophies and babying is an issue today, this ''F-U I'll do wtv I want'' attitude is just as big of a problem.
Just **** and put the spoiler tag on...or write ''Spoiler Alert'' at the top of your post. Have a pinch of decency....wtf.

Nobody has said this, please read.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Spoiler

It's a crap ending for sure, but there's still room for speculation since the leakers don't watch the entire episode, nor get to hear the full dialogue. The bullet points are right, but there is important stuff that is left out still.

Spoiler: Ending spoilers episode 6 GOT

Yeah we dont know the big lines but they still made 2 differents ending ,they could switch use 1 or 2 depending on critics from episode 5 but everything is not making any sense at all. The best ending would be Ned Stark waking up from his bed and says he had a nightmare. It would be better than the piece of shit that D&D came out for the last 3 seasons. Brann Seriously.

 

[Kimota]

Concerning Dany when she went to Westeros in Season 7, the idea was to conquer King's Landing and take the villainous Cersei out and take her family's Throne. But back then I started to think what it meant and what was the point. In every other cities, Dany wanted to free the slaves. In KL and Westeros there was no slaves to be freed. Westeros was a less harsh World. Sure Cersei was an asshole but other than blowing up the Sept of Balor, she didn't crap on her people. She didn't stop them from getting food. She did not torture anybody. Her taking power was crass but since then she didn't do much bad things. So Dany's conquest was based on nothing and people did not care about it. And so that is why Cersei became less interesting after this cause to me she was a fake villain.

If I have had a say in the writing, right after Cersei blew up the Church, the season right after, Episode 1 of Season 7, you would have seen people in revolt. Like outer chaos. To punish Cersei, High Garden cut the food supplies to the city and so it gets worse. You could even have Baelish hiring the Faceless Men to make things even worse. Then you see Cersei starts punishing her people. I mean mass executions. And it gets worse and worse, turns very ugly. She loses control. And so the city would need a savior.

Hence comes Dany. The savior that you need.

There's this huge war between the two camps on various territories of Westeros. Until it comes to King's Landing. It's not an easy one for Dany like they did on the show. At the end it's actually even, two destrucive forces, the dragons vs wildfire. But then Dany takes the uperhand and loses control and cannot stop in her destruction, she enjoys it too much. Madness takes over her. Cersei goes oh no she is killing everybody, she is destroying my home! Only chance left..! She is with Jaime at this time and he's like what are you doing. She goes at a place in the Red Keep with a mechanism to create a chain reaction wildire effect. But Jaime is like don't do that. He is stopped by Euron. They fight, Jaime wins but he enters the room almost half dead, he tries to stop Cersei, she is fighting back, she hit him with a stick, they curse at each other, she tell him she never loved him. Finally he kills her with his golden hand.

One Mad Queen Dead. Another left to go!

 

[Skip Bayless]

Spoiler: Ending spoilers episode 6 GOT

Yeah we dont know the big lines but they still made 2 differents ending ,they could switch use 1 or 2 depending on critics from episode 5 but everything is not making any sense at all. The best ending would be Ned Stark waking up from his bed and says he had a nightmare. It would be better than the piece of **** that D&D came out for the last 3 seasons. Brann Seriously.

Spoiler

It's being updated as we speak, we're most likely getting the ending where Tyrion lives. At least we'll get to see Jon with Ghost and Tormund back in the north, that's where he belongs really. Dany and Jon is supposed to be a tragedy, but all we got from them was boatsex, flying the dragons together and she's muh queen bruh. I literally feel nothing for them at this point.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Spoiler

It's being updated as we speak, we're most likely getting the ending where Tyrion lives. At least we'll get to see Jon with Ghost and Tormund back in the north, that's where he belongs really. Dany and Jon is supposed to be a tragedy, but all we got from them was boatsex, flying the dragons together and she's muh queen bruh.

Spoiler: Got episode 6 spoilers

Killing Tyrion would be the tip of the iceberg. I still cant believe how smart he was in 7 seasons and did not realize sending children and women in a crypt full of dead people was a good idea. Also Jon will Dany i dont see anything else happening. but idk what will happen to the dragon , Jon could use it i guess? Probably more bullshit will be announced. Tormund and Ghost atleast got a good ending for them ahha. No wonder the Hound was laughing at Jon and and Dany when they gave out the script the end is so bad lol. I still cant believe she burned everything after freeing so many people lmao. God this season is just full of memes and make 0 senses. Also if GG Martin was not so lazy he would complete his f***ing series. We are not going to see the end of this story.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

The idea is that when a Targ is born, you flip a coin he/she may be extremly Good or extremly Evil.

A thought they introduced very late.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Spoiler: Got episode 6 spoilers

Killing Tyrion would be the tip of the iceberg. I still cant believe how smart he was in 7 seasons and did not realize sending children and women in a crypt full of dead people was a good idea. Also Jon will Dany i dont see anything else happening. but idk what will happen to the dragon , Jon could use it i guess? Probably more bull**** will be announced. Tormund and Ghost atleast got a good ending for them ahha. No wonder the Hound was laughing at Jon and and Dany when they gave out the script the end is so bad lol. I still cant believe she burned everything after freeing so many people lmao. God this season is just full of memes and make 0 senses. Also if GG Martin was not so lazy he would complete his ****ing series. We are not going to see the end of this story.

Spoiler

Go to freefolk on reddit if you wish to know more details, the spoilers have just been updated and they say what happens with Drogon. The thing with GRRM is that he over-developed the characters to the point where he lost control of the plot, he only knows the ending, but his characters wont let him get there. Dany becoming evil is the real ending in the books as well.

Now, imagine two average at best writers like D&D trying to figure that out, and this is what we get. The show went from being character driven to a plot based spectacle -- What made the show was everything the characters did would come to bite them later on.

Now it's what can this character do for the ending. When you decide to switch the style of story telling AND cut it short + laziness this is the mess you get.

 

[Mrb1p]

She was a freedom warrior that used force to liberate slaves, not a hero nor a villain. Very different from killing innocents and children because she doesn't feel loved. It's not a matter of call backs and pretending she was always that. She evolves (in a laughable way) into that.

The only ****ed up thing prior to this was killing the Tarlys.

Littlefinger, The Night King, Cersei, Euron, Ramsey ect. we're always the villains.

Your notion of villain and hero is skewed by the show/books though. The Starks are not villain, they are merely caught in the cross-fires over and over, theyre not even hero, theyre victims. The Lannisters are a powerful house that use their power in a political way to gain even more influence, they are nor heroes nor villains, they are politicians.

Robert isn't a hero, he's a villain, he comes and "liberates" the city of their rightful ruler because he lost his wife to his son, thats laughable lol.
Rhaegar isn't a villain, he's just a dude that was in love with a girl that was already betrothed.

Since then ? It's mostly back to everyday life, with lords fighting like lords fight. It's basically medieval times, and there's no actual villain in there, just people seeking more political power.

The war of the five kings is weird, there's the King in the north, Robb, who doesn't really have a claim for the throne but goes for it because his dad died.. Which is... Yes, it's okay. I guess Robb is a hero.
Stannis is the "rightful" heir to the Usurper, which makes his case weird.
Renly doesn't have a case, he's a villain.
Balon Greyjoy didn't have a huge role but he clearly is a villain, if he choses to invade a foreign country/state/wtv.
Joffrey is a teenager, and yes, he's vile, but he hasn't really done anything but be mean to the Starks.

Dany though. She grows up to be a power-hungry woman. She kills people left and right, hundreds, and she does it for one single purpose, power.

Now thats a villain.

 

[Guilliam]

Spoiler: GOT

I don't understand why some people are surprised that Dany turned evil. Yes it was done poorly, when she just snapped in a split second on the back of her Dragon, but it's been obvious for a while that it was gonna happen. Tyrion and Jorah had to continuously rail her in and try to reason her when he temperament was getting the better of her. And when she burned the Tarlys and even when she crucified all the slave masters, those were all early evidence of her vengeful nature getting out of hand.

 

[Kimota]

Your notion of villain and hero is skewed by the show/books though. The Starks are not villain, they are merely caught in the cross-fires over and over, theyre not even hero, theyre victims. The Lannisters are a powerful house that use their power in a political way to gain even more influence, they are nor heroes nor villains, they are politicians.

Robert isn't a hero, he's a villain, he comes and "liberates" the city of their rightful ruler because he lost his wife to his son, thats laughable lol.
Rhaegar isn't a villain, he's just a dude that was in love with a girl that was already betrothed.

Since then ? It's mostly back to everyday life, with lords fighting like lords fight. It's basically medieval times, and there's no actual villain in there, just people seeking more political power.

The war of the five kings is weird, there's the King in the north, Robb, who doesn't really have a claim for the throne but goes for it because his dad died.. Which is... Yes, it's okay. I guess Robb is a hero.
Stannis is the "rightful" heir to the Usurper, which makes his case weird.
Renly doesn't have a case, he's a villain.
Balon Greyjoy didn't have a huge role but he clearly is a villain, if he choses to invade a foreign country/state/wtv.
Joffrey is a teenager, and yes, he's vile, but he hasn't really done anything but be mean to the Starks.

Dany though. She grows up to be a power-hungry woman. She kills people left and right, hundreds, and she does it for one single purpose, power.

Now thats a villain.

She is. Hence Robert is the Prince that was promised. Ned f***ed up.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Spoiler

Go to freefolk on reddit if you wish to know more details, the spoilers have just been updated and they say what happens with Drogon. The thing with GRRM is that he over-developed the characters to the point where he lost control of the plot, he only knows the ending, but his characters wont let him get there. Dany becoming evil is the real ending in the books as well.

Now, imagine two average at best writers like D&D trying to figure that out, and this is what we get. The show went from being character driven to a plot based spectacle -- What made the show was everything the characters did would come to bite them later on.

Now it's what can this character do for the ending. When you decide to switch the style of story telling AND cut it short + laziness this is the mess you get.

Spoiler: got e6 spoiler

ahah i was waiting for it freefolk is a good place , yep this ending is f***ing shit. now D&D can go ruin star wars even more