OT: Let's talk about movies and TV - Part XXI

[417]

Headline: Liam Neeson thinks something stupid out of anger, does nothing and realizes how stupid he is.

That's how I see it.

If it were a story where he had to be restrained or actually did it I'd be more concerned.

So it doesn't bother you in anyways that he admittedly went out and was seeking confrontation with black people in order to kill them?

I suppose it also doesn't bother you that Ted Bundy cruised around the Pacific Northwest for weeks before finding his victims...it's only a problem when he "succeed" I guess.

Lets ignore the behavior because he wasn't ultimately successful (which really, who really knows/cares).

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

See this is what i'm talking about...

Have you seen me deny how far behind the 8 ball Native Americans are?

That's now what we're talking about here, why is there always a need a deflect/redirect???


We've established that black people aren't the only racial group that's been disenfranchised...I'm aware.

Now what does this have to do with Liam Neeson?

The point? Causal factors. Converging adaptations, converging outcomes. And also behavioral biology (power and it's causal factors), because having an idea of the infinite complexity of how behavior arises is important in accessing any abherent or seemingly abherent behavior.

If the plight of all disafranchized people is important to you, why not dig deep into behavioral biology, sociology and all other related disciplines that help to explain human behavior?

What brought that man to rape Leeson's friend? What is Leeson's personal history. How did he feel at that moment. Same for the guy who commited the rape.

Id suggest a really great read, Behave, by Robert Sapolsky

Really quick and condensed resume of his book:

 

[417]

Succeed in what?

If you get angry, should you go to jail?

If being angry and taking a walk a crime?

What exactly did Liam do that is illegal?

What he did was think something stupid for a week.

So there's this story about a kid who was plotting to shoot up his school...he got caught with an automatic weapon in his car outside of school. And when he got caught, he said he was thinking about it but wasn't going to go through with it.

Guessing he should just get a pat on the back and sent home?

 

[overlords]

Do you wanna talk about it? Because we can?

Anything to take you away from Neeson, that's cool.

It was never really about Neeson, like I said I don't care about him whatsoever. You're actually the one that brought him up, and it was to specifically discuss this story, not a movie. I'm not surprised you want out of the conversation, but trying to spin in as if I'm the one stuck on something is hilarious when you're refusing to define racist terminology that you yourself have used in this thread.

As for the Metis, it's a media thread so I think that's inviting more mod attention than we already will get. I was disappointed to learn that this new platform doesn't have the ability to set up private forums inside itself like the last one did, it would have come in handy for this stuff.

 

[peate]

Is this still going on??? Don't you guys have work to do?

 

[417]

The point? Causal factors. Converging adaptations, converging outcomes. And also behavioral biology (power and it's causal factors), because having an idea of the infinite complexity of how behavior arises is important in accessing any abherent or seemingly abherent behavior.

If the plight of all disafranchized people is important to you, why not dig deep into behavioral biology, sociology and all other related disciplines that help to explain human behavior?

What brought that man to rape Leeson's friend? What is Leeson's personal history. How did he feel at that moment. Same for the guy who commited the rape.

Id suggest a really great read, Behave, by Robert Sapolsky

Really quick and condensed resume of his book:

Do these factors include the negative portrayal of minorities and the conditions that have affected them? (honest question).

 

[417]

Is this still going on??? Don't you guys have work to do?

way more important than any hockey discussion I could ever have here...

And to honest, i'm very thankful for everyone's contributions in this discussion...despite how it may come off, these are always learning examples for me and they force me to re-examine how I look at things and what I put out into the universe.

 

[417]

It was never really about Neeson, like I said I don't care about him whatsoever. You're actually the one that brought him up, and it was to specifically discuss this story, not a movie. I'm not surprised you want out of the conversation, but trying to spin in as if I'm the one stuck on something is hilarious when you're refusing to define racist terminology that you yourself have used in this thread.

I've not backed away from this conversation at all...and I continue to say that that term has nothing to do with racist terminology.

Is the term "Mansplaining" also derogatory???

Like come on...keep that same energy when someone freely admits to attempted vigilante justice.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

So it doesn't bother you in anyways that he admittedly went out and was seeking confrontation with black people in order to kill them?

I suppose it also doesn't bother you that Ted Bundy cruised around the Pacific Northwest for weeks before finding his victims...it's only a problem when he "succeed" I guess.

Lets ignore the behavior because he wasn't ultimately successful (which really, who really knows/cares).

Who is ignoring it? We're just saying he stopped and realized his mistake. Comparing to someone who didn't realize the mistake is the problem.

He sought out a confrontation but never actually had one.

So there's this story about a kid who was plotting to shoot up his school...he got caught with an automatic weapon in his car outside of school. And when he got caught, he said he was thinking about it but wasn't going to go through with it.

Guessing he should just get a pat on the back and sent home?

This is an exaggeration and you know it. Let's remove the kid part.

A grown man with a licensed firearm is angry and out of rage he is looking to pick a fight and use his firearm. He decides not to, why would he be in trouble? The only thing he'd need to do is reassess his anger and his choice of handling his anger. That may mean giving up his gun. Isn't that what liam did? stopped and dropped the weapon?

Adding kids or schools makes it bad from the start. In the above what happens? It's bad. It's stupid. It's reckless but it's not illegal.

You cannot charge someone for thinking of something bad and coming to their senses.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

And if we push this further, here's something that explains the fundemental problem of poverty and child-rearing, in that less than ideal environment for child rearing will often create what we see from the rat example in the clip (the one on the right). Stressful environment are unconductive for the ones on the left (in the clip);




That research was not the first and is based on the seminal work of both Marian Cleeves Diamond (in neurobiology for the link of emotional nuturing in rats before there were scans) and Barbara McClintock (transposons and epigenetics).

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Who is ignoring it? We're just saying he stopped and realized his mistake. Comparing to someone who didn't realize the mistake is the problem.

He sought out a confrontation but never actually had one.



This is an exaggeration and you know it. Let's remove the kid part.

A grown man with a licensed firearm is angry and out of rage he is looking to pick a fight and use his firearm. He decides not to, why would he be in trouble? The only thing he'd need to do is reassess his anger and his choice of handling his anger. That may mean giving up his gun. Isn't that what liam did? stopped and dropped the weapon?

Adding kids or schools makes it bad from the start. In the above what happens? It's bad. It's stupid. It's reckless but it's not illegal.

You cannot charge someone for thinking of something bad and coming to their senses.

ThoughtCrime

Orwell would be rolling in his grave

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Came to see what people were watching and umm..

Well. I recently watched Dark on Netflix and Escape at Dannemora on Crave, really enjoyed both. Anyone have any recommendations for a new show to watch?

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Let's reverse the situation here. A black man has irrational anger and seeks out a white man to do harm to and kill. The black man goes around with his weapon before realizing he's being a moron then steps back and never does it again.

I'm a white dude, I'd forgive that black guy. Why not? If he did nothing wrong and openly admits his stupidity and has done nothing wrong since then...?

Of course, if there's a criminal history with Liam or whoever then that should be taken into consideration. I don't know of any criminal history of his though.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Do these factors include the negative portrayal of minorities and the conditions that have affected them? (honest question).

Sure. But you're asking in general. You'll find some scientists that don't, but most modern ones do.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Came to see what people were watching and umm..

Well. I recently watched Dark on Netflix and Escape at Dannemora on Crave, really enjoyed both. Anyone have any recommendations for a new show to watch?

I watch Brooklyn Nine Nine and the Flash on Netflix.

 

[peate]

ThoughtCrime

Orwell would be rolling in his grave

I think I saw that on some TV show before. Maybe Star Trek not sure.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

@417

Look up James Gilligan's work on violence too. Great eye opener.

 

[overlords]

way more important than any hockey discussion I could ever have here...

And to honest, i'm very thankful for everyone's contributions in this discussion...despite how it may come off, these are always learning examples for me and they force me to re-examine how I look at things and what I put out into the universe.

This. It's getting harder and harder to find places to have adult discussions with people you know without fearing the thought police, intelligent discussion is always appreciated.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I think I saw that on some TV show before. Maybe Star Trek not sure.

It's originally from George Orwell's infamous and classic dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-four.

Also made into a movie in the 80's (or 70's, not sure)

 

[417]

Who is ignoring it? We're just saying he stopped and realized his mistake. Comparing to someone who didn't realize the mistake is the problem

He realized the mistake of murdering people was wrong?

He sought out a confrontation but never actually had one.

Not for a lack of trying.

This is an exaggeration and you know it. Let's remove the kid part.

'This is gonna change my life,' says teen arrested with rifle, ammo near Rowlett High School | Crime | Dallas News

It's not an exaggeration.

Should this kid be allowed scot-free because his plan got thwarted?

A grown man with a licensed firearm is angry and out of rage he is looking to pick a fight and use his firearm. He decides not to, why would he be in trouble? The only thing he'd need to do is reassess his anger and his choice of handling his anger. That may mean giving up his gun. Isn't that what liam did? stopped and dropped the weapon?

Adding kids or schools makes it bad from the start. In the above what happens? It's bad. It's stupid. It's reckless but it's not illegal.

You cannot charge someone for thinking of something bad and coming to their senses.

Never mind this fictious story...focus on the actual real example I provided

 

[417]

This. It's getting harder and harder to find places to have adult discussions with people you know without fearing the thought police, intelligent discussion is always appreciated.

Also needs to be said...when I read a story about someone targeting an entire group, because of the actions of one particular person.

You also have to realize that this may hit close to home for me (like it may for you or anyone here) so my passionate feelings here are intertwined with my own experiences that I don't need to get into or anything.

But I just want to reiterate, that I fully understand that the issue here is MUCH deeper then what's on the surface.

My concern is less with what Neeson has learned - it's what we should all learn from this. He gets ZERO sympathy or understanding from me...IMO, feelings such as those that bubble to the surface when ones angry reveal ones true nature.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

He realized the mistake of murdering people was wrong?

I think he knew that. I think he realized his anger and reaction to his anger was wrong.

Not for a lack of trying.

Who did he confront? In a week's time he met no one I guess. Seems like his heart wasn't into it.

'This is gonna change my life,' says teen arrested with rifle, ammo near Rowlett High School | Crime | Dallas News

It's not an exaggeration.

Should this kid be allowed scot-free because his plan got thwarted?

It's an exaggeration related to Neeson's story. The kid was charged with something illegal:

He has been charged with unlawful carry of a weapon in a weapon-free zone and possession of a controlled substance.

What crime did Liam commit? Hence why the story is an exaggerated comparison.

Never mind this fictious story...focus on the actual real example I provided

I did, now address mine.

 

[overlords]

I've not backed away from this conversation at all...and I continue to say that that term has nothing to do with racist terminology.

Is the term "Mansplaining" also derogatory???

Like come on...keep that same energy when someone freely admits to attempted vigilante justice.

It's racist by definition, and you haven't challenged that by providing your own definition. 'Blacksplaining, asiansplaining etc' have no place in an intelligent, adult conversation. They're merely mechanisms concocted by inter-sectional culture terrorists to slow down objective debate. If you make a good point, it's a good point regardless of what skin color you have, same goes if something goes over your head. The idea that your own personal subjective experience trumps objective reality is an incredibly dangerous one.

And yeah, mansplaining is derogatory. The term would be misandry. The entire point behind concepts like racism and prejudice being wrong is that people are more than what their group identity/skin color etc, may lead one to believe. Jumping to a conclusion on immutable characteristics someone may have (skin color, sex, arm length, hair color etc) all stem from the same diseased thought process. It shouldn't take a genius to see how easily that game can be turned around on oneself.

Vigilantes? The only one I know is Phoenix Jones

Phoenix Jones - Wikipedia

 

[417]

Let's reverse the situation here. A black man has irrational anger and seeks out a white man to do harm to and kill. The black man goes around with his weapon before realizing he's being a moron then steps back and never does it again.

I'm a white dude, I'd forgive that black guy. Why not? If he did nothing wrong and openly admits his stupidity and has done nothing wrong since then...?

See this is what I take issue with - he DID do something wrong in this example.

If he just seeked out a white man, any white man that would do, to try to hurt or kill...then you can forgive him all you want.

But there's something wrong with this person and his deep rooted hatred from the white man, needs to be addressed because that doesn't just go away because you realize you're wrong, it'll just bubble up to the surface the next time he feels slighted by a white man.

Of course, if there's a criminal history with Liam or whoever then that should be taken into consideration. I don't know of any criminal history of his though.

What he attempted to do was criminal...just because he didn't get caught or follow through with it (which no one knows whether he did or didn't) is besides the point.

You should criticize the behavior and what led up to it...not the lack of a result

 

[417]

I think he knew that. I think he realized his anger and reaction to his anger was wrong.

There's 2 layers to this...and both of them are wrong, although one is understandable.

1. The need to seek revenge for his friend who was raped, is wrong, but understandable. I think most would react the same way.

2. The need to seek the race of the attacker and then target ANY one who had the same color is psychotic (but i'm not a doctor obviously), its homicidal, it's not any different then Ted Bundy who was put to death because he targeted women of the same age and look. It's the same damn thing!

Like how did he get to the point where the color of the attacker was what was important???

Who did he confront? In a week's time he met no one I guess. Seems like his heart wasn't into it.

He's the only one who knows...all I know is that i'd never give anyone who had the thought process above, the benefit of the doubt.

It's an exaggeration related to Neeson's story. The kid was charged with something illegal:

He has been charged with unlawful carry of a weapon in a weapon-free zone and possession of a controlled substance.

What crime did Liam commit? Hence why the story is an exaggerated comparison.

Yes, he was charged...but according to what you think, or maybe i'm interpreting wrong...

He didn't actually follow through with it, so shouldn't he be let off scott free??

I did, now address mine.

I will...as soon as you fully address mine.